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The Joe Biden Presidency Thread


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4 minutes ago, Andrews_31 said:

"Defunding the Police" is dumb as all **** if you cannot articulate what it is or make a cogent argument why, and is a losing issue in Georgia!  I know what "Defunding the Police" means to me (Does every cop need his own Dodge Charger to moonlight in?  How much gas does the police department need to purchase when your asss is moonlighting and let those cars idle for hours!!!  Unlimited overtime is a no no!  Take the MRAPS and other military hardware away from theses cops (you bumpkins have better gear than anything I was issued)), etc.!  But if you REALLY want to know what "Defund the Police" means, take a look at what happened in Philly a few months ago!  The family dials 911 to get an ambulance to come out and take this guy to the mental institution to get some help, the guy is CLEARLY having a mental episode, his family and dam near the whole block is trying to calm him down, the ******* cops get there before the ambulance, everybody on the block (including his mother, is telling the cops what is happening, and don't shoot him).....................and these stupid ****s blow him away anyway!!!  That's what "Defund the Police" means to me, but hey....................................

I was told that message doesn't matter and that "defund the police" is a winnable slogan in places like Georgia.

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4 minutes ago, Leon Troutsky said:

I was told that message doesn't matter and that "defund the police" is a winnable slogan in places like Georgia.

****, you lived in Acworth, you already know that going to go over like a lead balloon! :lol:  These mofos better learn how to articulate what the **** they mean or the GOP will define it for you!  It'll get traction if people knew what it meant!

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8 minutes ago, Leon Troutsky said:

I was told that message doesn't matter and that "defund the police" is a winnable slogan in places like Georgia.

I didn't tell you that. Not sure who said "its a winning slogan" in Georgia.  I said it's just a slogan, a three word chant, and focusing on it is dumb when we could be focusing on the people out there who are explaining the movement's goals (can't help they're ignored in your media circles, I guess). I said that changing the actual slogan to like "reform the police" allows it to be highjacked by people who don't actually agree with the goals of the movement. Exactly what we've seen.

Andrews, it means ending the drug war, which would simultaneously remove a massive chunk of the police's current load. It means taking that money they no longer need to fight a bs drug war and shifting it to programs that will help pull people out of poverty, increase housing, fight addiction, and hopefully reduce crime generally. It means having professionals trained in certain fields respond to crises within their fields instead of heavily armed police who are more likely to agitate a situation (and regarding your anecdote, there are plenty more the just like that, where a mentally unstable person ends up dead or injured because an officer is so ill-equipped to respond). It means demilitarizing police. And it means different levels of community protection.

It is not an instantaneous thing - but that is what detractors want you to think, that it means day one no more police anywhere and chaos. But it doesn't. It would be a transition, with community leaders working to implement the process along the way.

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It also means some re-education. We've been brought up to believe that every society must have a large, centralized, powerful police force to operate peacefully. It's not true. We can rethink it - but we can't actually do any of it so long as a disproportionately large amount of our budgets go to police forces (while we defund everything else).

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3 minutes ago, Andrews_31 said:

"Reform the Police" is muccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccch better!

but "reform" means literally anything, and it's already been co-opted by those who want to, for example, give more money for sensitivity training (which we know doesn't work) or put more police on the ground (the exact opposite of the movement). 

We cannot achieve the goals of the movement without taking money from the police, because it's clear that money isn't available elsewhere.

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2 minutes ago, The Monarch said:

I didn't tell you that. Not sure who said "its a winning slogan" in Georgia.  I said it's just a slogan, a three word chant, and focusing on it is dumb when we could be focusing on the people out there who are explaining the movement's goals (can't help they're ignored in your media circles, I guess). I said that changing the actual slogan to like "reform the police" allows it to be highjacked by people who don't actually agree with the goals of the movement. Exactly what we've seen.

Andrews, it means ending the drug war, which would simultaneously remove a massive chunk of the police's current load. It means taking that money they no longer need to fight a bs drug war and shifting it to programs that will help pull people out of poverty, increase housing, fight addiction, and hopefully reduce crime generally. It means having professionals trained in certain fields respond to crises within their fields instead of heavily armed police who are more likely to agitate a situation (and regarding your anecdote, there are plenty more the other way where a mentally unstable person ends up dead or injured because an officer is so ill-equipped to respond). It means demilitarizing police. And it means different levels of community protection.

It is not an instantaneous thing - but that is what detractors want you to think, that it means day one no more police anywhere and chaos. But it doesn't. It would be a transition, with community leaders working to implement the process along the way.

Let me add, "Defund the Police" SHOULD NOT be coupled with stopping the "War on Drugs."  It dirties the water and gives another weapon to the GOP to not do **** about stopping the War on Drugs" *cough* *cough* black people *cough*!

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6 minutes ago, The Monarch said:

I didn't tell you that. Not sure who said "its a winning slogan" in Georgia.  I said it's just a slogan, a three word chant, and focusing on it is dumb when we could be focusing on the people out there who are explaining the movement's goals (can't help they're ignored in your media circles, I guess). I said that changing the actual slogan to like "reform the police" allows it to be highjacked by people who don't actually agree with the goals of the movement. Exactly what we've seen.

Andrews, it means ending the drug war, which would simultaneously remove a massive chunk of the police's current load. It means taking that money they no longer need to fight a bs drug war and shifting it to programs that will help pull people out of poverty, increase housing, fight addiction, and hopefully reduce crime generally. It means having professionals trained in certain fields respond to crises within their fields instead of heavily armed police who are more likely to agitate a situation (and regarding your anecdote, there are plenty more the other way where a mentally unstable person ends up dead or injured because an officer is so ill-equipped to respond). It means demilitarizing police. And it means different levels of community protection.

It is not an instantaneous thing - but that is what detractors want you to think, that it means day one no more police anywhere and chaos. But it doesn't. It would be a transition, with community leaders working to implement the process along the way.

Another thing, the incident in Philly is not anectodal, it was all caught on video!

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2 minutes ago, The Monarch said:

I didn't tell you that. Not sure who said "its a winning slogan" in Georgia.  I said it's just a slogan, a three word chant, and focusing on it is dumb when we could be focusing on the people out there who are explaining the movement's goals (can't help they're ignored in your media circles, I guess). I said that changing the actual slogan to like "reform the police" allows it to be highjacked by people who don't actually agree with the goals of the movement. Exactly what we've seen.

Andrews, it means ending the drug war, which would simultaneously remove a massive chunk of the police's current load. It means taking that money they no longer need to fight a bs drug war and shifting it to programs that will help pull people out of poverty, increase housing, fight addiction, and hopefully reduce crime generally. It means having professionals trained in certain fields respond to crises within their fields instead of heavily armed police who are more likely to agitate a situation (and regarding your anecdote, there are plenty more the other way where a mentally unstable person ends up dead or injured because an officer is so ill-equipped to respond). It means demilitarizing police. And it means different levels of community protection.

It is not an instantaneous thing - but that is what detractors want you to think, that it means day one no more police anywhere and chaos. But it doesn't. It would be a transition, with community leaders working to implement the process along the way.

The problem is you can't make that a slogan but the otherside can.

There's not a way you can say 'take away funding' and have it not sound bad.

You say increase funding to training.

You recognize that police are overworked and due to budget cuts everywhere else we have asked Police to do things they have not been trained for.

You say 'make police officer Judo training' and other forms of non-lethal restraint mandatory. While I am not 100% I believe they go over that kneeling on someone's neck is super ******* dangerous and you should never do it.

There are so many other ways to articulate it but you'll never fit it into a slogan.

Messaging is everything. This is something the DNC really needs to learn.

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6 minutes ago, The Monarch said:

It also means some re-education. We've been brought up to believe that every society must have a large, centralized, powerful police force to operate peacefully. It's not true. We can rethink it - but we can't actually do any of it so long as a disproportionately large amount of our budgets go to police forces (while we defund everything else).

But you agree that a civilized society must have a police force, correct?

Even the military has it's own police force.... on every base.

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3 minutes ago, Andrews_31 said:

Let me add, "Defund the Police" SHOULD NOT be coupled with stopping the "War on Drugs."  It dirties the water and gives another weapon to the GOP to not do **** about stopping the War on Drugs" *cough* *cough* black people *cough*!

 

Just now, Sun Tzu 7 said:

The problem is you can't make that a slogan but the otherside can.

There's not a way you can say 'take away funding' and have it not sound bad.

You say increase funding to training.

You recognize that police are overworked and due to budget cuts everywhere else we have asked Police to do things they have not been trained for.

You say 'make police officer Judo training' and other forms of non-lethal restraint mandatory. While I am not 100% I believe they go over that kneeling on someone's neck is super ******* dangerous and you should never do it.

There are so many other ways to articulate it but you'll never fit it into a slogan.

Messaging is everything. This is something the DNC really needs to learn.

 

The problem is that dems always worry about what the other side will do, tries to shift the messaging to meet the other side, and then are disappointed when the other side still doesn't work with them.  Over and over and over again. Concede the narrative and you lose the war.

And for all the talk about messaging, you didn't see a single major dem politician (the kind who would never utter "defund") talking about fundamentally realigning spending policies, ending the drug war, shifting huge amounts of money to housing and poverty programs. Because they don't want that either.

At the end of the day, you have to accept that almost everyone insisting that people drop a slogan (which is all it is, honest short hand, nothing more) also completely disagree with the movement and don't want any of its policies implemented, slogan or not. It's like Kasich getting up there lecturing dems about what they need to do - which is to do the things he wants. It's horse****, and the left/dems have to stop being such cowards. Own your message.

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Just now, Sun Tzu 7 said:

But you agree that a civilized society must have a police force, correct?

Even the military has it's own police force.... on every base.

 

No, I don't, but to the extent it needs something it in no way needs the kinds we have now, which developed out of slave patrols and private militias intended to guard capital (and still do!).

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7 minutes ago, Corn Pop said:

There won’t be a coup — whether via violence or the judiciary — because there is no incentive for capital or the military to prevent the Senator from MBNA from taking office. Now if we were to ever elect someone like AOC, then you might see a coup.

Trump never had the infrastructure - i.e., the military, for an actual coup. He'll take an upper decker in the Oval Office bathroom on January 19th and ****post his way into untold wealth (to pay off his debt) through book deals, speaking engagements, interviews, etc . . .

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Like, "defund" basically entered the general lexicon this year. Why didn't any of these policy goals happen before it came around if the messaging is the problem? What was stopping moderate dems and the GOP from ending the drug war and moving money to other poverty and housing and educational programs? Why is it that more people now are at least familiar with some of the policy goals behind it?

Messaging is it, all right, and the messaging has got y'all thinking a three word slogan is the reason none of this **** is happening rather than that the three word slogan arose because none of this **** is happening. 

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It seems as most of ABF's power players are active this afternoon, I'm ready to discuss MY terms for a transfer of mega-thread power.

1. Do yall want to just keep this one going, with me occasionally making humorous topical thread title changes?

2. Does one of our resident conservatives want to start a Biden presidency grievance thread?

3. Do we want a "non-politics" mega-thread?
 

With great power comes great me telling yall to go **** yourselves.

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1 minute ago, The Monarch said:

Like, "defund" basically entered the general lexicon this year. Why didn't any of these policy goals happen before it came around if the messaging is the problem? What was stopping moderate dems and the GOP from ending the drug war and moving money to other poverty and housing and educational programs? Why is it that more people now are at least familiar with some of the policy goals behind it?

Messaging is it, all right, and the messaging has got y'all thinking a three word slogan is the reason none of this **** is happening rather than that the three word slogan arose because none of this **** is happening. 

You're reaching

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6 minutes ago, Mr. Hoopah! said:

Trump never had the infrastructure - i.e., the military, for an actual coup. He'll take an upper decker in the Oval Office bathroom on January 19th and ****post his way into untold wealth (to pay off his debt) through book deals, speaking engagements, interviews, etc . . .

I'm not worried about civil war, I'm worried about white extremist terrorism

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