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Mr. Hoopah!

The Ben Shapiro P-Word Thread

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1 hour ago, Jpizzle said:

So I wanted to wait until I had a minute or two to respond to @Return of the Gaucho. You said as much but without knowing the context of the Hong Kong and Iranian protesters comments I can get your perspective there. But for the most part those were tongue in cheek comments pointing out what a lot of us believe to be rank hypocrisy from some of our more conservative friends down here. I would never compare what is happening and has happened to Iranian and Hong Kong protesters to what's going on now as a direct comparison. Because rankly based off of what I see Americans would have broke long before those people did and it would be a dishonor to them.

 

Moving onto the only pointing out one side of the violence and only focusing on the officers actions part of your response. I mean you aren't necessarily wrong but the repeated police brutality at protests about police brutality and systemic racism especially considering the outside factors of rhetoric like "You have to dominate them", "You have to dominate the battle space" being thrown around , and then the military rolling in and what appears to be the forceful dispersal of a crowd with "pepper balls" so the president can get a pretty picture...I mean. And I don't pretend to be unbiased here. I have a clear bias and it lies with the citizens protesting.

So without quoting every post, I do want to thank everyone who replied, though I have no idea how to link their handles in the reply. I went back and read a bit more, and I see no need to continue to debate the police vs. protesters issue that has been so thoroughly discussed. I would note that my issue lies with the, what I view as, correct distinguishing of the protesters from the looters, with the seemingly monolithic treatment of police in general. There is a certain appeal to the argument that police officers who are good, nevertheless fail their public when they are silent or allow bad cops to engage in exactly the behavior that has triggered these protests. Yet I see a clear tendency to paint the police as a bloc, and the protesters/looters as a dichotomy. 

That behavior of the police forces in the US by and large needs to change, but it isn't as simple as "more oversight" or "remove the power of the police unions." Oakland is the perfect example of what can go wrong with having a goal of reform without a plan. A federal lawsuit was brought against Oakland for civil rights violations due to the actions of several members of the OPD. The settlement of the lawsuit brought about major changes, federal oversight and an independent police commission to hold the police accountable. This has gone on nearly 20 years, and there have been a lot of changes in the OPD for the better, but the oversight remains. In 2016, a sexual assault case within OPD resulted in firings, and the resignation of the police chief, and the subsequent appointment of a popular and reform minded police chief named Anne Kirkpatrick. She was subsequently terminated by the oversight commission "without cause" for what she claims was the refusal to reimburse one of the commissioner's car towing fees. In the background of all of this, the police department is chronically underfunded and doesn't have the resources to adequately police the city in the best of times, let alone now. Every use of force, which in my understanding can be as simple as handcuffing, requires the officers involved and witnessing the use of force to file a report. This takes officers off the street daily to write these reports. It's all in the goal of accountability and reform, but it only exacerbates the problems.

While the specifics are surely different in departments across the country, the underlying issues are not unique. When you add onto that the looting and rioting that has occurred over the past week, you take police officers who are already overstretched and force them to work significant overtime dealing with situations that they are quite frankly not trained for. The overzealous use of pepper spray, "non-lethal" rounds, and other tactics by the police is overwhelmingly unwarranted, but realistically what do you expect when a police officer is pushed to exhaustion and confronted with a mob?  It doesn't excuse it, but I think it needs to be considered when judging these situations. The actions over the past week are not really reflective of the underlying issues of disproportionate targeting and treatment of minorities and the poor, and a lack of accountability for officers who either never should have been sworn in in the first place or those who weren't trained in how to handle things properly. 

So what is to be done? If someone says increase the police budget for training, more manpower for community policing, more oversight, etc., it seems to be a non-starter. Holding police accountable is certainly a goal I agree with, but how is it done without giving the police departments the resources to make the changes needed to prevent the abuses in the first place? Do you strip qualified immunity? Do you force police officers to carry their own professional liability insurance? I really don't have the answer, but I tend believe that more accountability needs to be forced on the police and adequate resources to meet those heightened standards should be part and parcel with the accountability.

I'll end the wall of text there, but this issue is something I have followed closely since I began working as a public defender 10 years ago, and continues to be something I find myself dwelling on now that I have been in the civil arena for 5 or so years.  As always, I do appreciate the thought that the posters in ABF tend to put in, despite my lack of participation. 

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3 minutes ago, AF89 said:

Kings an Generals had some awesome swiss guard content a few months ago -btw off topic

Funny to think that Swiss mercenaries were the most sought after warriors in Europe... some time ago.

The word "suisse" (Swiss in French) even became a common name for a guard.

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Hey, thought I would share some really great numbers concerning the new unemployment rates that were released for May. This is really great new for the American people and shows that when you build a strong economy even something like a complete shutdown of the economy can start to bounce back pretty **** quick!

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/06/05/jobs-report-may-2020.html

 

And so all of you don't get side tracked, I saw what the park police said about the tear gas and no it doesn't change my mine, they were throwing things at the police.

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5 minutes ago, BamaBirdLady said:

Hey, thought I would share some really great numbers concerning the new unemployment rates that were released for May. This is really great new for the American people and shows that when you build a strong economy even something like a complete shutdown of the economy can start to bounce back pretty **** quick!

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/06/05/jobs-report-may-2020.html

 

And so all of you don't get side tracked, I saw what the park police said about the tear gas and no it doesn't change my mine, they were throwing things at the police.

The journalist who was filming the situation wasn’t throwing anything.  One of the Park Police viciously hit him in the abdomen with the side of his shield and then tried to snatch his camera.  

Edit:  Also, what evidence do you have that they were throwing things?

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7 minutes ago, Mr. Hoopah! said:

The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.“

1984.

I have to believe this otherwise it calls everything I believe into question.  Even if 1 person threw some water bottle at someone it still doesn’t justify the response.  
 

just awful... down right deplorable.  Pretty sure that 75 yo dude had it coming

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1 minute ago, lostone said:

I have to believe this otherwise it calls everything I believe into question.  Even if 1 person threw some water bottle at someone it still doesn’t justify the response.  
 

just awful... down right deplorable.  Pretty sure that 75 yo dude had it coming

As others have said, I don’t have a hard time believing at least one person threw something, in all likelihood after the cops started firing on them, but even if it was before, it was absolutely excessive use of force before the curfew even went into effect.

I’ve tried to look for reports of people throwing things. I can’t find a single report. You’d think every right wing outlet/social media personality would have ran with it, yet to my knowledge only a single person on the planet seems to have seen it on tv, conveniently with no way to verify that here. 

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14 minutes ago, Leon Troutsky said:

The journalist who was filming the situation wasn’t throwing anything.  One of the Park Police viciously hit him in the abdomen with the side of his shield and then tried to snatch his camera.  

Edit:  Also, what evidence do you have that they were throwing things?

Can't we just celebrate this great news about the economy bouncing back?

I am not to argue with you anymore about what I saw and what the police said they saw. These are the police who came out and said they were wrong about the tear gas not about them throwing items, remember?

Honestly, I am just happy to see that 2.5 million people were back to work and  supporting their families last month!

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58 minutes ago, Leon Troutsky said:

Cuomo just announced a similar proposal for New York.

I haven't figured out how choke holds or knee on the throat would ever be acceptable. :shrug:

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20 minutes ago, Leon Troutsky said:

The journalist who was filming the situation wasn’t throwing anything.  One of the Park Police viciously hit him in the abdomen with the side of his shield and then tried to snatch his camera.  

Edit:  Also, what evidence do you have that they were throwing things?

There were dozens if not hundreds of cameras here from around the international press. If even one caught so much as an empty water bottle being thrown don't we think the White House would be spotlighting that ****?

 

 

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