Jump to content
Search In
  • More options...
Find results that contain...
Find results in...
g-dawg

The most likely pick at #16

Recommended Posts

I don't HATE Henderson at 16. He's got the measurables and held his own against Ja'Marr Chase, who will likely be a top 10 pick next year. 

But man do I like Fulton's tape a heck of a lot better. He's so polished at recognizing offense especially for a guy with so little starting experience. He's gonna need some coaching to learn to turn his head around sooner but he's got the tools and talent to be a Probowl player. His hand usage is some of the best I've seen in a while.

 

Now compare this video and the sheer amount of pass deflections/breakups to Henderson and tell me he's not more naturally gifted...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 hours ago, Smiler11 said:

Prime once famously said 'First and foremost they pay me to cover, they don't pay me to tackle". John Dorsey echoed that last year when he drafted Greedy Williams "Corners are paid to cover. 

 

I know Dan Quinn said before you can not have too many corners but TD echoed it on more than one occasion.

 

Speaking with the media on the subject at the scouting combine in Indianapolis, general manager Thomas Dimitroff said you can’t have too many of them, per the Athletic.

“You can never have too many corners — within reason, of course. . . Unfortunately, some of the corners go down, and you’re going to have to have people step up. Back to this being a matchup league, if you don’t have adept corners out there who can not only cover but make plays on balls, which is a really important thing, then you can be run roughshod by other teams who understand that.”

It’s not a stretch to say the Falcons will definitely be looking closely at cornerback prospects throughout the combine. How aggressively they pursue the position may depend on how high they are on Isaiah Oliver. A second-round pick in 2018, Oliver had no more success than the team’s other cornerbacks. However, he does still have potential.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, MD-FalconFan13 said:

I don't HATE Henderson at 16. He's got the measurables and held his own against Ja'Marr Chase, who will likely be a top 10 pick next year. 

But man do I like Fulton's tape a heck of a lot better. He's so polished at recognizing offense especially for a guy with so little starting experience. He's gonna need some coaching to learn to turn his head around sooner but he's got the tools and talent to be a Probowl player. His hand usage is some of the best I've seen in a while.

 

Now compare this video and the sheer amount of pass deflections/breakups to Henderson and tell me he's not more naturally gifted...

This is where I’m at with CB’s I want guys who can get the pass breakups but are in position to get INTs which I see a lot of with Fulton.He may not be as athletic as a Henderson types but for me he’s always on the ball.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, ike barn87987 said:

TD and DQ love players from LSU. Even going back to Chevis Jackson. Since DQ has been here he’s drafted Collins, Jones, Riley, and Gage. They got 3 first rounders in Chaisson, Queen, and Fulton all within our range. I’m willing to bet we take one of them. We can’t go wrong with either one.

Whenever you here “We can’t go wrong” - most of the time that’s not true:rolleyes:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 3/23/2020 at 4:12 PM, g-dawg said:

Biggest Drawback:   Tackling - obviously every scouting report points out that Henderson isn't a big fan of tackling.   Obviously tackling is a big part of the NFL game.   You could make the excuse that Henderson was preserving his body so as not to jeopardize his NFL career - don't know if that is true and- even if it is - is that someone you want on your team.

Overall, the skills, size and speed are everything you look for in a CB#1.  Henderson isn't as good a tackler as Okudah but he is similar in most other areas - with more speed.   Watching the movement skills of CJ Henderson is to watch a very fluid mover with easy speed.   Plays under control.

 

I am just saying many on here won't be too happy if we take a cornerback in the 1st round and won't like the profile of a cornerback w/o good history of tackling.   I am just saying get used to this name.   Very good chance this guy could be the pick.
 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Cole World said:

 

 

I really believe Falcons board of players that have at least a chance of falling to 16 is 

1) Javon Kinlaw 

2) CJ Henderson 

I also agree the tackling thing is being overplayed on TATF.   He will improve there and he likely will never be great but adequate.   Corners get paid to cover and this cat can do that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, g-dawg said:

I really believe Falcons board of players that have at least a chance of falling to 16 is 

1) Javon Kinlaw 

2) CJ Henderson 

I also agree the tackling thing is being overplayed on TATF.   He will improve there and he likely will never be great but adequate.   Corners get paid to cover and this cat can do that.

My board would look something like...

1a. Klavon Chaisson

1b. Javon Kinlaw

2. CJ Henderson

....

3. Yetur Matos Gross

4. Grant Delpit

5. Ross Blacklock

 

Queen and Murray are probably in that second tier somewhere but I'm not sure an off-ball linebacker is the best use of our resources in the first.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Tackling isn’t over played it’s a disease around the league.If your not taught correct technique from a young age forget about being a good tackler.

Somethings don’t change coaching be ****ed and you see it throughout the league.

If you draft a guy like Henderson accept the weakness and move on.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
37 minutes ago, kiwifalcon said:

Tackling isn’t over played it’s a disease around the league.If your not taught correct technique from a young age forget about being a good tackler.

Somethings don’t change coaching be ****ed and you see it throughout the league.

If you draft a guy like Henderson accept the weakness and move on.

yeah but DQ was supposed to be the tackling guru w/ his rugby style, right? :D

I could accept the weakness if he is elite cover corner which he seems like he could be at next level.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
36 minutes ago, g-dawg said:

yeah but DQ was supposed to be the tackling guru w/ his rugby style, right? :D

I could accept the weakness if he is elite cover corner which he seems like he could be at next level.

Supposedly so.

Old habits Die Hard.

I wouldn’t be calling him elite.

I don’t see him as a high INT type guy though he is a outstanding athlete he’ll run with any WRer.They are my 2 concerns about him really lack of in a word ball-hawking and physicality.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, kiwifalcon said:

Supposedly so.

Old habits Die Hard.

I wouldn’t be calling him elite.

I don’t see him as a high INT type guy though he is a outstanding athlete he’ll run with any WRer.They are my 2 concerns about him really lack of in a word ball-hawking and physicality.

I am speaking more to argument than player here.

High Interception guys usually aren’t the best corners. The ones that don’t get thrown at much are the best.   I never like the interception argument because there is a lot of fluke and opportunity to it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 3/25/2020 at 2:50 AM, Smiler11 said:

That's not what I said, I said QB's don't fear corners who can tackle. That said I would question the statement that for boundary corners, tackling is a huge part of their job - Prime, Nnamdi Asomugha, DRC, Antonio Cromartie, Marcus Peters are all examples of guys who weren't exactly known for their tackling. Prime once famously said 'First and foremost they pay me to cover, they don't pay me to tackle". John Dorsey echoed that last year when he drafted Greedy Williams "Corners are paid to cover. The tackling aspect, just get the guy down". If you're a boundary corner racking up lots of tackles, it probably means the people you're covering are catching the ball. 

Henderson is far more willing than all of the aforementioned former pro bowlers and his technique are very coachable - far more so that trying to teach a corner to cover like he can.

All that sounds good. But that attitude is what brings a defense down. Or a team really. You can be the baddest man on Earth, but in a team sport, I need to count on you to have my back just like I will have yours. 1 guy not willing to get physical means the offense is playing 11 on 10 football. Every coach in this league is scouting Henderson, you dont think they arent going to run the ball right at him or to his side to see if he can level up? 
And in this league I dont care how good you cover, youre going to give up catches. Everyone does.  Especially teams that run zone. As a CB you are going to have to come up and tackle in the flats. Thats a requirement to make that scheme work. Are we just going to play man 100% of the time then?

Also, dont give me Deion quotes if you arent the same player as Deion was. QBs feared throwing his way, not because he was going to swat the ball away or be in great position. But because he was going to snatch the ball out of the air and take it to the house. People praised Trufant because QBs didnt target his side of the field, until they realized his hands were trash and he was shied away from contact, then they started challenging him again. There was no price to pay for it. Trufant made business decisions, its why he was a great player on an awful defense. We insert a backup who isnt half the cover corner as he was and the defense became top 10 all of a sudden. We played like a team and not just 11 great players. 
Henderson will be counter productive to the gains we made as a defense down the stretch. Now your safeties and linebackers will have to work twice as hard to make up for plays on his side of the field. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, LightningDawg58 said:

All that sounds good. But that attitude is what brings a defense down. Or a team really. You can be the baddest man on Earth, but in a team sport, I need to count on you to have my back just like I will have yours. 1 guy not willing to get physical means the offense is playing 11 on 10 football. Every coach in this league is scouting Henderson, you dont think they arent going to run the ball right at him or to his side to see if he can level up? 
And in this league I dont care how good you cover, youre going to give up catches. Everyone does.  Especially teams that run zone. As a CB you are going to have to come up and tackle in the flats. Thats a requirement to make that scheme work. Are we just going to play man 100% of the time then?

Also, dont give me Deion quotes if you arent the same player as Deion was. QBs feared throwing his way, not because he was going to swat the ball away or be in great position. But because he was going to snatch the ball out of the air and take it to the house. People praised Trufant because QBs didnt target his side of the field, until they realized his hands were trash and he was shied away from contact, then they started challenging him again. There was no price to pay for it. Trufant made business decisions, its why he was a great player on an awful defense. We insert a backup who isnt half the cover corner as he was and the defense became top 10 all of a sudden. We played like a team and not just 11 great players. 
Henderson will be counter productive to the gains we made as a defense down the stretch. Now your safeties and linebackers will have to work twice as hard to make up for plays on his side of the field. 

you are being melodramatic on the tackling.   Reading this, you would think Henderson has no arms and cannot make a tackle.  They aren't playing with 10 guys on defense that can make a tackle.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, kiwifalcon said:

This is where I’m at with CB’s I want guys who can get the pass breakups but are in position to get INTs which I see a lot of with Fulton.He may not be as athletic as a Henderson types but for me he’s always on the ball.

are you OK with the kid's character(FULTON) as a 1st round draft pick?   You know about him trying to circumvent a drug test and being suspended for two year, right? (suspension was later cut to one year)  Millions of dollars riding on draft picks - especially 1st rounders.    Had similar issues with Jalen Collins and was taken in 2nd round.    

Just sayin'...generally more willing to take risks the lower the rounds but 1st round?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, g-dawg said:

are you OK with the kid's character(FULTON) as a 1st round draft pick?   You know about him trying to circumvent a drug test and being suspended for two year, right? (suspension was later cut to one year)  Millions of dollars riding on draft picks - especially 1st rounders.    Had similar issues with Jalen Collins and was taken in 2nd round.    

Just sayin'...generally more willing to take risks the lower the rounds but 1st round?

Until you mentioned it Dawg I didn’t know of these issues if I’m honest.That will definitely have an effect on what us or anyone else have him going in a given round.

 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
48 minutes ago, g-dawg said:

I am speaking more to argument than player here.

High Interception guys usually aren’t the best corners. The ones that don’t get thrown at much are the best.   I never like the interception argument because there is a lot of fluke and opportunity to it.

This is the thing with the INT comment and it’s tied into route recognition and if you have a look at Fultons clips you see it with him he’s jumping routes either side of the receiver it’s because he’s recognised where the balls going and has a shot at a play on the ball.

If you have a look at Henderson he reacts from what I notice his athleticism is on show in this but he isn’t a lot of the time in position to make a play on the ball bar a deflection.

This is the difference for me between the 2 Fulton has to do that because he isn’t the athlete Henderson is.If your in love with the athleticism you take a Henderson type.If you like the more gritty physical guy you take Fulton for me it’s pretty simple really.

Listen to what Whitt Jnr saying that gives away a lot of what I think we’ll draft at DB.

Juat a quick one here DQ isn’t running the defense anymore the bar has changed so must fans thinking about what we are and what we want to draft.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, kiwifalcon said:

Until you mentioned it Dawg I didn’t know of these issues if I’m honest.That will definitely have an effect on what us or anyone else have him going in a given round.

 

 

 

 

Yeah I believe that issue will haunt Fulton and cause him to drop.   Typically when you see stuff like this - it’s a major red flag and that is just the one time the person got exposed publicly.

I don’t see Fulton on the draft board for that reason.   Falcons have been burned badly by Hageman and Collins and high 2nd round draft capital.

Don’t see DQ nor TD wanting to stick their neck out on him.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, g-dawg said:

I am speaking more to argument than player here.

High Interception guys usually aren’t the best corners. The ones that don’t get thrown at much are the best.   I never like the interception argument because there is a lot of fluke and opportunity to it.

A big part of interceptions is scheme, teams that employ zone tend to have higher interception numbers in their secondary.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 3/26/2020 at 5:04 PM, ike barn87987 said:

If we go CB we better get one at 16 b/c Jax at 20 and MN at 22 need one. Whether it’s Henderson or Fulton we better do it at 16. I don’t think we can afford to trade back now and still get one of them.

I like several guys in Rd 2 just as much or more.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 3/24/2020 at 6:41 PM, falconsfan4life3 said:

From Henderson’s draft profile:

He's willing and capable in run support but needs better control as an open-field tackler. Henderson is a fluid cornerback with ball skills and burst and has CB1 ability as a first-round

Strengths

  • Willing to charge downhill and attack in run support

This is literally the only truth about his tackling. He is ready and willing and always dives down in support. What he doesn’t do is make a sure tackle sometimes. His physicality should t be questioned at all. They didn’t even mention it his first 2 years at UF. Maybe he was preserving himself knowing he was going to be a 1st rounder but he definitely is capable of tackling. There is no lack of effort. Period. I wish folks would stop spewing the nonsense about him not wanting to tackle. Trufant literally would wait on somebody else to tackle a guy sometimes. Henderson made several tackles and never hesitated to come up. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
  • Create New...