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g-dawg

The most likely pick at #16

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52 minutes ago, Malachore said:

If they legit go into the season with a rookie, Sheffield and Oliver as the starting 3 CBs then this team is in trouble on the back end.

Oliver, Wilson and Sheffield started the final 3 games of 2019. 22 points to the 49ers, 12 to the Jags, 22 to the Bucs.

Under 200 yards passing all three games.

 

Our season average with Tru? 258.

 

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Yeah, I've been wide open to accepting this pick for quite some time now.  It's been a very real possibility that he can be staring at us at 16.  But I too would love to see Kinlaw there man!

He'll need to make better business decisions in the NFL with tackling but there's so much to like about his silky smooth skills.  Unreal feet, burst, mirroring, balls skills etc...

The following scouting report provides reports from 5 scouts with just a click.

https://thedraftnetwork.com/player/cj-henderson/D8AdfjeDeG

 

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46 minutes ago, vel said:

The Browns had a very good pass defense with a rookie Greedy Williams and second year Denzel Ward. 

Thing is both those guys are more talented than Oliver and Sheffield. 

Oliver is not good at all, idk what you guys see in him.

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I actually don't agree that CB is our greatest need nor is Henderson the best value there at 16.  OLB is hands down our greatest need and it's not even close as we don't have 1 on the entire roster.  We atleast have 4  to 5 capable and solid CB's on the team in  Sheffield, Oliver, Blidi, and Rico.  Those are 4 guys i have watched play and have seen very good things from in our secondary at times.  Then you got atleast 2 more guys that are young and talented with upside in Taylor and Miller.  Even if we went into the season with just those guy i wouldn't be terrible worried.  I would like 1 more good young guy or 1 more proven vet for sure to make me comfortable though.  But that position doesn't scare me or make me feel it's a weakness and our biggest need with all that there.  

Linebacker actually terrifies me right now as  Debo and Foye are it and Foye is still young and learning some like him some don't. I think Foye was better than Cambpell so i like him quite a bit.  But that still leaves 3 linebackers needed at minnimum to even field a team.  a Starter at SLB, and then 2 backups and possibly 3 backups for each linebacker spot.   I'll even goes as far as saying DT is a bigger need than CB right now as well just based on theirs only 3 guys there at the position and they seem to hate Senat.  Leaving just Grady and Davison as the 2 guaranteed DT's that the coaching staff will play.  Gady si a Stud and can play every down  Davison where as he is a very good run defender leaves alot to be desired on some passing downs.  We need another top tier DT to pair with Grady leaving Davison as great rotation depth for rushing downs and breathers.  Could probably use another one for depth as well to give us 4 or 5 DT's if they don't plan on using Seant like last year. 
 

Safety im actually a little more worried about than CB as well as i can see Kazee and Rico probably have FS locked down although Rico should probably be our starting NB with Kazee's emergence at FS. Rico is a good depth piece and injury replacement for sure.  Neal on the other hand worries me with his injuries and not coming back to form possibly.  I don't trust any of our backup SS players as much as i do our backup CB's.  Rico can do SS but is not suite well for it based on how we run our scheme.  

So for me i would say in order   SLB > DT  > S > CB    in the needs department and what im feel comfortable with on starters and depth.   I'll also put Chassion and Murray ahead of henderson as better players at 16 for SLB so he wouldn't even be my BPA there.  I don't see Henderson or Fulton much better if any better than guys considered 2nd rounders like. Diggs, Johnson, Arnette, Terrell, Igbinoghene, or Robinson.   The CB position is loaded in the 1st 3 rounds and i would rather take my chance one of them is there in rounds 2 or 3 and take a better player and more important need at SLB or DT in rounds 1 and possibly 2.

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22 minutes ago, FalconFan13 said:

I actually don't agree that CB is our greatest need nor is Henderson the best value there at 16.  OLB is hands down our greatest need and it's not even close as we don't have 1 on the entire roster.  We atleast have 4  to 5 capable and solid CB's on the team in  Sheffield, Oliver, Blidi, and Rico.  Those are 4 guys i have watched play and have seen very good things from in our secondary at times.  Then you got atleast 2 more guys that are young and talented with upside in Taylor and Miller.  Even if we went into the season with just those guy i wouldn't be terrible worried.  I would like 1 more good young guy or 1 more proven vet for sure to make me comfortable though.  But that position doesn't scare me or make me feel it's a weakness and our biggest need with all that there.  

Linebacker actually terrifies me right now as  Debo and Foye are it and Foye is still young and learning some like him some don't. I think Foye was better than Cambpell so i like him quite a bit.  But that still leaves 3 linebackers needed at minnimum to even field a team.  a Starter at SLB, and then 2 backups and possibly 3 backups for each linebacker spot.   I'll even goes as far as saying DT is a bigger need than CB right now as well just based on theirs only 3 guys there at the position and they seem to hate Senat.  Leaving just Grady and Davison as the 2 guaranteed DT's that the coaching staff will play.  Gady si a Stud and can play every down  Davison where as he is a very good run defender leaves alot to be desired on some passing downs.  We need another top tier DT to pair with Grady leaving Davison as great rotation depth for rushing downs and breathers.  Could probably use another one for depth as well to give us 4 or 5 DT's if they don't plan on using Seant like last year. 
 

Safety im actually a little more worried about than CB as well as i can see Kazee and Rico probably have FS locked down although Rico should probably be our starting NB with Kazee's emergence at FS. Rico is a good depth piece and injury replacement for sure.  Neal on the other hand worries me with his injuries and not coming back to form possibly.  I don't trust any of our backup SS players as much as i do our backup CB's.  Rico can do SS but is not suite well for it based on how we run our scheme.  

So for me i would say in order   SLB > DT  > S > CB    in the needs department and what im feel comfortable with on starters and depth.   I'll also put Chassion and Murray ahead of henderson as better players at 16 for SLB so he wouldn't even be my BPA there.  I don't see Henderson or Fulton much better if any better than guys considered 2nd rounders like. Diggs, Johnson, Arnette, Terrell, Igbinoghene, or Robinson.   The CB position is loaded in the 1st 3 rounds and i would rather take my chance one of them is there in rounds 2 or 3 and take a better player and more important need at SLB or DT in rounds 1 and possibly 2.

You can get serviceable 3rd veteran linebacker for fairly cheap whereas it is harder to come by at corner.  I haven't looked in the last 4-5 days on who is out there but vet linebackers go cheaper than vet corners.

I don't disagree w/ you that we need another linebacker but this isn't a very good linebacker draft.   Chaisson, Queen and Murray and then a huge dropoff.   Think CJ probably better than all - Chaisson might be close.

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Think the falcons have done  good job of signings/trades to ensure they don't HAVE to take any position at 16, wouldn't be surprised if they signed a vet corner for the same reason. Love to have them situated so that they can truly draft BPA, or even, gasp, trade back and gain picks.

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1 minute ago, falconidae said:

Think the falcons have done  good job of signings/trades to ensure they don't HAVE to take any position at 16, wouldn't be surprised if they signed a vet corner for the same reason. Love to have them situated so that they can truly draft BPA, or even, gasp, trade back and gain picks.

I want BPA as well - whether that is Kinlaw, Chaisson or Henderson (or someone else).   Those are the three players most often linked to Falcons and I still don't see Kinlaw being available.

If you really want to take away the "pressing need" - then Falcons would need to sign both a Vet Corner and a Vet Linebacker because both of those are crucial and Falcons are definitely weak in both areas to the point of it being a screaming need.

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5 minutes ago, g-dawg said:

I want BPA as well - whether that is Kinlaw, Chaisson or Henderson (or someone else).   Those are the three players most often linked to Falcons and I still don't see Kinlaw being available.

If you really want to take away the "pressing need" - then Falcons would need to sign both a Vet Corner and a Vet Linebacker because both of those are crucial and Falcons are definitely weak in both areas to the point of it being a screaming need.

Well, yeah, but we're talking about corners and you've already called someone out for getting off topic;)

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19 minutes ago, g-dawg said:

You can get serviceable 3rd veteran linebacker for fairly cheap whereas it is harder to come by at corner.  I haven't looked in the last 4-5 days on who is out there but vet linebackers go cheaper than vet corners.

I don't disagree w/ you that we need another linebacker but this isn't a very good linebacker draft.   Chaisson, Queen and Murray and then a huge dropoff.   Think CJ probably better than all - Chaisson might be close.

You just made my exact point on why to go LB 1st my friend.  Chassion, Murray, Queen, and Baun are the top of the pile and then theirs a steep drop off.  So why settle for such a drop off later at LB instead of taking 1 of the really talented ones at 16.  Where as CB doesn't have that steep dropoff because CB is absolutely LOADED in this draft and you can get a guy very similar talent wise if not better than Henderson in round 2 or 3.  All those CB's i listed are atleast comparable to Henderson and to some people actually better.  Diggs and Johnson i know  i have seen listed above Henderson for sure by people on this forum. Although im pretty even on about all of them as theirs really not a upper tier elite DB in this draft outside of Okudah.   With that said i also have all 4 of those LB's rated higher and better players in this draft than Henderson or Fulton so i probably see it differently than you on BPA as well.  But my point still stands that you draft from strength and LB drops off alot where as CB doesn't so you get better players at LB and CB by going LB 1st and still getting a very good CB in rounds 2 or 3 comparable to Henderson and Fulton and you have tons to choose from.

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5 hours ago, g-dawg said:

take your pick of Diggs, Henderson, Terrell, Gladney, Fulton, Dantzler, Inbinoghene, Johnson, Hall or Dantzler

we are getting one of those 10 guys and 2nd round will be latest that any of those will be available.unless something comes up on attitude or character front.

Give me Inbinoghene in Rd 2.

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6 hours ago, Smiler11 said:

This is kind of where I've landed. I think CJ Henderson is being underated at this point, he has genuine lock-down upside. It's rare you see a corner that big with the footwork and swivel hips that Henderson has. The tackling issues are somewhat overblown as well. 

Based on some of the posts in this thread...including yours... seems Henderson is being overrated at this point. 

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1 hour ago, Malachore said:

Thing is both those guys are more talented than Oliver and Sheffield. 

Oliver is not good at all, idk what you guys see in him.

Absolutely agree, Oliver hasn't shown any ability to control his side of the field.. Idk what fans actually expect out of him this season 

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8 minutes ago, FalconFan13 said:

You just made my exact point on why to go LB 1st my friend.  Chassion, Murray, Queen, and Baun are the top of the pile and then theirs a steep drop off.  So why settle for such a drop off later at LB instead of taking 1 of the really talented ones at 16.  Where as CB doesn't have that steep dropoff because CB is absolutely LOADED in this draft and you can get a guy very similar talent wise if not better than Henderson in round 2 or 3.  All those CB's i listed are atleast comparable to Henderson and to some people actually better.  Diggs and Johnson i know  i have seen listed above Henderson for sure by people on this forum. Although im pretty even on about all of them as theirs really not a upper tier elite DB in this draft outside of Okudah.   With that said i also have all 4 of those LB's rated higher and better players in this draft than Henderson or Fulton so i probably see it differently than you on BPA as well.  But my point still stands that you draft from strength and LB drops off alot where as CB doesn't so you get better players at LB and CB by going LB 1st and still getting a very good CB in rounds 2 or 3 comparable to Henderson and Fulton and you have tons to choose from.

Maybe I made your point but your thoughts here don’t persuade me.  

Linebackers tend to push down as the position isn’t deemed by NFL GMs as important as corner.  How do I know this? Just look at the empirical evidence. The Franchise tags of every position.  If you are choosing between those two positions and players grade the same, you take the corner.  Your views of the corner tiers I don’t believe are accurate - anecdotes of what others say - perhaps not the best way to state your case.  

Honestly, I would probably rather have Chaisson over Henderson and Kinlaw even more but those are my personal feelings.

I believe Henderson is properly going to be rated the #2 corner and on a 2nd tier by himself behind Okudah.

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Three different scouting reports on Trufant weakness:

WEAKNESSES

Only adequate in his overall strength and physicality, often whiffs at tackle attempts, jumping at feet or throwing a weak shoulder. Has mental lapses in coverage that lead to big plays. Poor technique in press makes him susceptible to giving up plays. Gives up the sideline in the run game when failing to get outside leverage against receiver blocks. Will open up his hips far too quickly and immediately give up inside leverage.

 

Cons:

  • Tackling: Trufant is not a sound tackler. His technique is mediocre at best and more often than not he doesn't go low and wrap up the defender.
  • Not a pick machine: Trufant had only one interception this season, and six in his college career.

 

Weaknesses

Good open-field runners can sometimes break down Trufant too easily in one-on-one situations,,and while the fight is there, the strength to get off blocks isn't. His aggressiveness will sometimes take him out of plays like wide receiver screens when he guesses early.

Trufant has the speed to blitz, but he doesn't do well when he clashes with a blocking back. Trufant is not a true ball thief. He often opts to knock the ball down instead of try to intercept it and isn't always natural making a play on the ball. Trufant will also occasionally have trouble spotting the ball in the air.

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6 hours ago, g-dawg said:

Alright - this isn't what I would do - but I believe this is likely the pick for the Falcons at #16 (my dream is Javon Kinlaw).   

Why? 

1) Greatest Need:    while Falcons have two guys they really like in Sheffield and Oliver,  I don't think there is a sure-fire no brainer between the two.  I believe Sheffield to have CB#2 ability.   To me, Oliver looks like a free safety conversion at some point.   I know Oliver played better in season's 2nd half but don't believe he is someone you want to count on over an entire season as a starting corner.

2) BPA at #16:   assuming Kinlaw is gone - and I deem it likely, it is quite possible Henderson will be the highest rated player on Falcons board (outside of maybe the 4th OT).  Of course I assume in this example that Chase Young, Jeff Okudah, Isaiah Simmons, Derrick Brown and Kinlaw all gone.

3) Draft what you know:  Dimitroff has had better luck drafting secondary than any other position.  While not perfect,  Dimitroff has hit on Trufant, Alford, Kazee and Neal(injured) - missed badly on Jalen Collins.   It's also obvious Dan Quinn has an affinity for defenders from two schools - LSU and Florida.

4) CB#1/close to shutdown /// like a Starting Pitching Ace in MLB:   Many teams don't have a legit corner w/ shutdown type of ability.   Henderson has that - 4.39 speed and the size he carries (6'1" over 200lbs) - has the skillset to be a complete corner - i don't wholly believe in 'shudown corners' since Deion Sanders and Darrelle Revis retired but.....Henderson could be that next tier down.

 

#1-016)  CJ Henderson, CB-Florida (6'1", 204lbs, 4.39/40, 20 reps, 37.5" vert, 127" broad)

Image result for cj henderson

 

Biggest Drawback:   Tackling - obviously every scouting report points out that Henderson isn't a big fan of tackling.   Obviously tackling is a big part of the NFL game.   You could make the excuse that Henderson was preserving his body so as not to jeopardize his NFL career - don't know if that is true and- even if it is - is that someone you want on your team.

 

Overall, the skills, size and speed are everything you look for in a CB#1.  Henderson isn't as good a tackler as Okudah but he is similar in most other areas - with more speed.   Watching the movement skills of CJ Henderson is to watch a very fluid mover with easy speed.   Plays under control.

 

I am just saying many on here won't be too happy if we take a cornerback in the 1st round and won't like the profile of a cornerback w/o good history of tackling.   I am just saying get used to this name.   Very good chance this guy could be the pick.
 

 

No tackling you say? He’ll fit right in with this defense! 

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47 minutes ago, g-dawg said:

Maybe I made your point but your thoughts here don’t persuade me.  

Linebackers tend to push down as the position isn’t deemed by NFL GMs as important as corner.  How do I know this? Just look at the empirical evidence. The Franchise tags of every position.  If you are choosing between those two positions and players grade the same, you take the corner.  Your views of the corner tiers I don’t believe are accurate - anecdotes of what others say - perhaps not the best way to state your case.  

Honestly, I would probably rather have Chaisson over Henderson and Kinlaw even more but those are my personal feelings.

I believe Henderson is properly going to be rated the #2 corner and on a 2nd tier by himself behind Okudah.

I would agree with you on the CB over Lb thing maybe if we were talking about a #1 CB and not having one over a #1 LB.  But we do have CB's that are pretty talented and the guy were drafting would be the #3 or 4 CB.  The 3rd or 4th CB to me isn't more important than a position you don't have a single body at all at lol. Although im gonna be honest with you if you offered me Trufant or Debo for the same price side by side a #1 CB or a #1 MLB with both their talents im taking Debo everytime.  I think a upper tier coeverage LB that can still play the run well is growing big time on my list of important pieces.   For me to take a #1 CB over Debo he would literally need to be a top 5 CB in the league and pretty much shutdown at the position not just a regular #1 Cb.

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20 minutes ago, FalconFan13 said:

I would agree with you on the CB over Lb thing maybe if we were talking about a #1 CB and not having one over a #1 LB.  But we do have CB's that are pretty talented and the guy were drafting would be the #3 or 4 CB.  The 3rd or 4th CB to me isn't more important than a position you don't have a single body at all at lol. Although im gonna be honest with you if you offered me Trufant or Debo for the same price side by side a #1 CB or a #1 MLB with both their talents im taking Debo everytime.  I think a upper tier coeverage LB that can still play the run well is growing big time on my list of important pieces.   For me to take a #1 CB over Debo he would literally need to be a top 5 CB in the league and pretty much shutdown at the position not just a regular #1 C

20 minutes ago, FalconFan13 said:

I would agree with you on the CB over Lb thing maybe if we were talking about a #1 CB and not having one over a #1 LB.  But we do have CB's that are pretty talented and the guy were drafting would be the #3 or 4 CB.  The 3rd or 4th CB to me isn't more important than a position you don't have a single body at all at lol. Although im gonna be honest with you if you offered me Trufant or Debo for the same price side by side a #1 CB or a #1 MLB with both their talents im taking Debo everytime.  I think a upper tier coeverage LB that can still play the run well is growing big time on my list of important pieces.   For me to take a #1 CB over Debo he would literally need to be a top 5 CB in the league and pretty much shutdown at the position not just a regular #1 Cb.

Lol.   If Falcons Draft Henderson it won’t be because he would be CB#3 or 4.

He would be CB#1.

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7 hours ago, PokerSteve said:

He plays defense, but he's not a fan of tackling? lol. Not a scheme fit. Aren't we Mean and Nasty now? No. Please no.

Neither was Deion. No, I am NOT saying this kid is the next Prime Time. I am just pointing out that if a CB can cover, he won't need to tackle as often.

And as a counter to my own point, Deion himself said that its true, you don't see Prime Time make a lot of tackles; but you don't see Prime Time MISS many tackles, either.

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2 hours ago, g-dawg said:

You can get serviceable 3rd veteran linebacker for fairly cheap whereas it is harder to come by at corner.  I haven't looked in the last 4-5 days on who is out there but vet linebackers go cheaper than vet corners.

I don't disagree w/ you that we need another linebacker but this isn't a very good linebacker draft.   Chaisson, Queen and Murray and then a huge dropoff.   Think CJ probably better than all - Chaisson might be close.

What are taking about baun Harrison gay jr dye Phillip's weaver brown Brooks.... get off the gas and every guy I name can play the slb in this defense real talk. 

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