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g-dawg

The most likely pick at #16

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All depends on who is available & Morris/Whitt etc on Sheffield & Oliver moving forward, IMO.

We could even add to S this year instead, given the lack of certainty beyond 2020.

CB in round 2 might still be fine and we focus on the best LB or DL prospect available unless that drop off has already happened and we opt for the best CB.

It seems clearly to be a defender any way you can slice it.

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6 minutes ago, primetime said:

A lot think once a good cb loses his speed he can just shift to safety and play an extra couple of years. Thing is it rarely happens well and the guys that do do it where Often ball hawking cbs who excelled in zone anyway. Good Safeties need more smarts than athletic ability. Great safety’s have both

 

6 minutes ago, g-dawg said:

Oliver doesn't have elite feet and COD.  He does play the ball well in the air and tackles fairly well.  Those are traits that would make him a good safety.  Regardless, I just don't ever see him as a great man-to-man cover guy.    Henderson has that in spades.

Like primetime said, it rarely happens well. Yet, it's been treated like the norm. Safeties have to have good feet and COD. Like you said, Oliver doesn't. So he's dead on arrival at safety. He's only played man really, so saying you don't see him as a great man to man cover guy ignores everything about his game. The reason he fell in the draft was because of his lack of snaps in zone coverage. Yet, you throw him 20 yards off the ball with poor COD and little zone awareness and you are talking about an UDFA type of player. 

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10 minutes ago, Boise Falcon Fan said:

I wouldn't hate it. I truly believe we need an elite corner, a stud DT, and a LB.  If we can get an elite CB at 16, and then trade up in the 2nd for a Gallimore or Blacklock, we will have killed this offseason.  LB in the 4th, if we have to use the 3rd to trade up for one of the DT's?

don't hate that plan Boise.  good job!

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2 minutes ago, MAD597 said:

How come on places like NFL network it shows us picking 17?

it will be corrected by tomorrow - the graphics guy was banging the producer in the back room  and his hand slipped on the mouse button -  they both just got fired.  The graphics had KC picking 1st and a reversal of the draft order.

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1 minute ago, vel said:

 

Like primetime said, it rarely happens well. Yet, it's been treated like the norm. Safeties have to have good feet and COD. Like you said, Oliver doesn't. So he's dead on arrival at safety. He's only played man really, so saying you don't see him as a great man to man cover guy ignores everything about his game. The reason he fell in the draft was because of his lack of snaps in zone coverage. Yet, you throw him 20 yards off the ball with poor COD and little zone awareness and you are talking about an UDFA type of player. 

Agreed on Oliver. He needs technique help like Whitt mentioned in his initial impressions of what changed with secondary over the season and IO was specifically cited.

He is a boundary corner that needs to learn zone/communication & understanding at the NFL level. You could tell he was overthinking and playing forced early in the season. The change when Morris got with those guys during the Bye was night and day. We shut down the Saints in NO without Tru.

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Posted (edited)

Really enjoyed this post. I am a Kinlaw all the way fan if he is there as well.

Henderson PLAYS THE BALL and is fluid but that tackling thing really bothers me. Expecting that he will be different in the NFL may just be wishful thinking.

I put a premium on PASSES BROKEN UP with defenders and Gladney/Johnson either one are solid CB1 types that PLAY THE BALL. I would take either over Henderson, Johnson is a sticky enforcer but has those shoulder surgeries...urgh...but I am really high on him. Both may be 2nd rounders in value to this FO however.

So what to do in the 1st? However if Kinlaw is not there I am hoping for the nastiest IOL we can pick (Henny, Ruiz, etc) or trade down for more picks/choices

We need so many starters (OG, DT, LB, CB, etc) having multiple picks in the early rounds will give us stronger options.

Thanks for the post!

Edited by Doug Carlton

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4 minutes ago, vel said:

 

Like primetime said, it rarely happens well. Yet, it's been treated like the norm. Safeties have to have good feet and COD. Like you said, Oliver doesn't. So he's dead on arrival at safety. He's only played man really, so saying you don't see him as a great man to man cover guy ignores everything about his game. The reason he fell in the draft was because of his lack of snaps in zone coverage. Yet, you throw him 20 yards off the ball with poor COD and little zone awareness and you are talking about an UDFA type of player. 

feel free to get back on subject of Henderson.   Falcons need three corners anyway so someone is playing slot and three corners is basically three starters as teams in nickel 70% off the time anyway.

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I think it’s definitely realistic because he fits the type of corner both TD and DQ covet. Plus he’s a Florida guy, and we know DQ’s connection to the school. I like Henderson overall and was for him before the Trufant release that sparked a large portion of the board on the idea of Henderson/CB at #16. 

I could easily see Henderson, Fulton (we have a history of taking LSU guys), Diggs (TD likes bloodlines), Kinlaw, and Chaisson as very strong possibilities for #16. If it were up to me, I’m looking at Chaisson, especially considering the current gaping hole at SLB, at #16 and then the next best CB at #47 (Jeff Gladney). I actually think Gladney and Henderson are very similar in terms of being two of the best pure man corners outside of Okudah.

Sorry, I somewhat side tangented. Definitely think Henderson’s realistic at #16.

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Posted (edited)
14 minutes ago, g-dawg said:

feel free to get back on subject of Henderson.   Falcons need three corners anyway so someone is playing slot and three corners is basically three starters as teams in nickel 70% off the time anyway.

That’s a good point. Sheff was in the slot last year when Neal was out and Blidi came in after he, Sheff, slid inside while being LCB in base (lot of valuable experience for KSheff and film)

However, with Rico and Kazee both capable and Neal back...one of them could be the slot.

I think deepening the CB or S pot are both viable options. Henderson seems like an option. His RAS score is very high, well past Okudah among CBs.

It boils down to thinking we need depth or CB1 more so. It’s possible to go Henderson in round 1 and take the best tweener rusher in round 2; where as SLB could be in round 3.

RAS

https://relativeathleticscores.com/2020-cornerback-draft-class-ras/

C.J.-Henderson-RAS-20177.png?w=806&ssl=1
Jeffrey-Okudah-RAS-20173.png?w=806&ssl=1

Edited by Schwarzwald

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27 minutes ago, g-dawg said:

Alright - this isn't what I would do - but I believe this is likely the pick for the Falcons at #16 (my dream is Javon Kinlaw). 

Similar dream of Kinlaw but if we go corner, I prefer AJ Terrell.  Henderson is probably a little more consistent in coverage but his lack of physicality turns me off a bit.  Terrell really good in coverage as well but he got dog in him and plays with aggression that fits the team a bit better.  Wouldn't be upset with CJ but AJ's my pref if we grab one high.   I'd be also content with waiting and taking Bryce Hall later as no matter who we bring in, it would be a lot to expect them to come in an immediately be better than the guys who've already been through the gauntlet.  We could use a really good corner but I don't think we are desperate for one.

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2 minutes ago, Schwarzwald said:

That’s a good point. Sheff was the slot last year when Neal was out and Blidi came in after he, Sheff, slid inside after being LCB in base.

However, with Rico and Kazee back...

I think deepening the CB or S pot are both viable options. Henderson seems like an option. His RAS score is very high, well past Okudah among CBs.

It boils down to thinking we need depth or CB1 more so. It’s possible to go Henderson in round 1 and take the best tweener rusher in round 2; where as SLB could be in round 3.

Yeah, there is no legit 3rd corner - Blidi Wreh is a journeyman and isn't a guy meant to be anything more than roster depth.  If he was meant for more, he would have made it by now.

Like I said, my preference is Kinlaw.   There are some nice targets between #16 into late 2nd/early 3rd rounds - you know the names - but corners go fast in the draft - they always have and this draft won't be different.

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1 minute ago, Monolith2001 said:

Similar dream of Kinlaw but if we go corner, I prefer AJ Terrell.  Henderson is probably a little more consistent in coverage but his lack of physicality turns me off a bit.  Terrell really good in coverage as well but he got dog in him and plays with aggression that fits the team a bit better.  Wouldn't be upset with CJ but AJ's my pref if we grab one high.   I'd be also content with waiting and taking Bryce Hall later as no matter who we bring in, it would be a lot to expect them to come in an immediately be better than the guys who've already been through the gauntlet.  We could use a really good corner but I don't think we are desperate for one.

I think Falcons are desperate for one (a corner).   Perhaps in the 1st round or perhaps in 2nd - but YES they are desperate for a corner - of that, I am fairly certain.

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14 minutes ago, g-dawg said:

feel free to get back on subject of Henderson.   Falcons need three corners anyway so someone is playing slot and three corners is basically three starters as teams in nickel 70% off the time anyway.

Oliver is a full time, boundary only CB. Not even a slot guy. He's a linear player. Sheffield played the slot. Rico has been listed as the nickel on two released depth charts (obviously unofficial). 

Henderson is fine, but going back to last year, when they went heavy man, Oliver tended to be the CB on the bigger WRs (Evans/Thomas) with Sheffield on the other and Rico taking the shifty WR/RB. If the CB1 you take at #16 is going to have to play more WR2/Slot/Nickel type of duties, I don't think Henderson fits that. The moment he gets in the slot, a smart team is going to make him tackle. You just can't get around that issue. It's not a lack of technique. It's also a lack of want to. He makes business decisions all of the time and his cover skills aren't that good to accept that in my opinion. I think his ceiling is that of DRC, a fringe top tier CB with flashes of elite play, but not a special guy overall. 

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1 minute ago, g-dawg said:

I think Falcons are desperate for one (a corner).   Perhaps in the 1st round or perhaps in 2nd - but YES they are desperate for a corner - of that, I am fairly certain.

:D I'll rephrase but you may still not agree.  They aren't desperate enough that they have to hope the player they pick up is going to save the secondary in 2020.

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2 minutes ago, youngbloodz said:

I would hate this. Rather take Diggs at 16

take your pick of Diggs, Henderson, Terrell, Gladney, Fulton, Dantzler, Inbinoghene, Johnson, Hall or Dantzler

we are getting one of those 10 guys and 2nd round will be latest that any of those will be available.unless something comes up on attitude or character front.

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4 minutes ago, Monolith2001 said:

:D I'll rephrase but you may still not agree.  They aren't desperate enough that they have to hope the player they pick up is going to save the secondary in 2020.

you are right - I still don't agree.   No worries my friend.   this will all sort itself out in the next 32 days and we will see what presents are under the Christmas tree.

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6 minutes ago, vel said:

Oliver is a full time, boundary only CB. Not even a slot guy. He's a linear player. Sheffield played the slot. Rico has been listed as the nickel on two released depth charts (obviously unofficial). 

Henderson is fine, but going back to last year, when they went heavy man, Oliver tended to be the CB on the bigger WRs (Evans/Thomas) with Sheffield on the other and Rico taking the shifty WR/RB. If the CB1 you take at #16 is going to have to play more WR2/Slot/Nickel type of duties, I don't think Henderson fits that. The moment he gets in the slot, a smart team is going to make him tackle. You just can't get around that issue. It's not a lack of technique. It's also a lack of want to. He makes business decisions all of the time and his cover skills aren't that good to accept that in my opinion. I think his ceiling is that of DRC, a fringe top tier CB with flashes of elite play, but not a special guy overall. 

I don't believe Henderson's role would be the slot - he would be a boundary corner and a #1 - otherwise we wouldn't take him in the 1st.   Deion Sanders got around tackling all the way to the Hall of Fame.   No, I am not saying Henderson is Deion Sanders.   I also don't believe his tackling will be a major problem.

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7 minutes ago, vel said:

Oliver is a full time, boundary only CB. Not even a slot guy. He's a linear player. Sheffield played the slot. Rico has been listed as the nickel on two released depth charts (obviously unofficial). 

Henderson is fine, but going back to last year, when they went heavy man, Oliver tended to be the CB on the bigger WRs (Evans/Thomas) with Sheffield on the other and Rico taking the shifty WR/RB. If the CB1 you take at #16 is going to have to play more WR2/Slot/Nickel type of duties, I don't think Henderson fits that. The moment he gets in the slot, a smart team is going to make him tackle. You just can't get around that issue. It's not a lack of technique. It's also a lack of want to. He makes business decisions all of the time and his cover skills aren't that good to accept that in my opinion. I think his ceiling is that of DRC, a fringe top tier CB with flashes of elite play, but not a special guy overall. 

DRC was a ball magnet though, seems everyone think Henderson is not. 
 

DRC made a cartoonish amount of interceptions, esp out the gate

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Between now and late April, expect to see loads of projections, rankings, and mock drafts ahead of the 2020 NFL Draft.

That is, so long as the NFL Draft still proceeds as planned, set to begin on April 23rd though of course the event will be monitored amidst the global COVID-19 pandemic. But with both analysts and fans hunkering down in their homes to prevent spread, surely each and every NFL and NFL Draft fan will be compiling their own analysis.

Former NFL and AFL cornerback Eric Crocker is in that group. The former New York Jets and four-year Arena Football League CB, known on Twitter for his "Press Coverage with CrockTime" account which analyzes wide receiver and cornerback play in both the NFL and college, Crocker has begun to release his cornerback big board for the upcoming selection ceremony.

And unlike most draft analysts, Crocker believes Florida Gators cornerback C.J. Henderson is the top cornerback in the 2020 class, over the likes of almost consensus CB1 Jeff Okudah of Ohio State, and others.

"I broke down C.J. Henderson against, pretty much [LSU wide receiver and unanimous All-American] Ja'Marr Chase, but C.J. Henderson vs. LSU's offense," Crocker said to lead off his thorough breakdown of Henderson's game on Twitter. "I was very, very, very detailed throughout this breakdown on things that I would coach him up on, like if I'm in the coaches' room these are things that I would point out. The one takeaway I had was that everything he did wrong, at least in this game, 100% fixable, or coachable."

At the NFL Combine, Henderson, who stood at 6-1, 204 lbs., clocked a 4.39 40 yard dash among other eye-catching results during the athletic testing portion of the event. That type of speed for a boundary cornerback isn't easy to find, and to Crocker, it's part of what makes Henderson his CB1.

Crocker spoke with AllGators to provide a thorough scouting report on the former Florida standout, highlighting several important clips that he shared on Twitter and expanding on his reasoning.

Speed

_3jg0iG9_normal.jpg

Shadowing Chase. In the slot. He’s definitely comfortable in press alignment on the outside or slot. Good versatility to have when looking for a potential CB1 for your squad. The ability to line up inside or outside vs any type of receiver. Added value

 
Embedded video
 

Gets set late. Throws off his technique but when you are a freak athlete and 4.39 guy, it doesn’t always have to be perfect. The ability to this is what I like. Not have a perfect rep but still be able to recover and make a play on the ball

 
Embedded video
 
 
 
 

As Crocker notes, Henderson isn't fully set at the snap on the above play, covering Chase. While it's important to be in position at the next level especially, Henderson has the ability to recover pretty easily.

"When you've got freak athleticism, sometimes everything doesn't have to be perfect" Crocker summed up on the play above. "When you run a 4.39, that's why it bumps him up a little bit because, now, even when I'm not playing my technique perfect, or I find myself in a vulnerable position, I don't have to panic. I don't have to panic, you know why? Because I'm fast."

Zone eyes

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Hug the line of scrimmage. Check with the ref. Don’t line up and give space. Take it away as much as possible. Make the ref tell you to get back

 
Embedded video
 
 

On this zone coverage play, Henderson drops back after the lone receiver to his side drags across the middle of the field. Now open to make a play in his area of the playing field, Henderson opens his hips to the playing field to process the rest of the play and picks up on a developing deep crossing route coming his way.

"If the quarterback tries to fit this in right here, he's robbing that," said Crocker. "I like what he was thinking here."

Henderson has been knocked in the draft process for a lack of forced turnovers, accumulating only six interceptions across 30 games played. But with instincts to break on routes like in the clip above, Crocker doesn't see his lack of turnovers as an issue.

"I thought he played the ball well," Crocker told AllGators. "Ideally you want interceptions, but remember [Los Angeles Rams cornerback] Jalen Ramsey had three interceptions in college, zero in his last year. Henderson has six. Interceptions are tricky, my rookie year in the AFL I had three, and in my second year, I had 11. Sometimes, they just come in bunches."

Press coverage

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I’ve been defending Henderson and the whole tackling issue. Showed up a couple times this game. Including here on the first play of the game. I talk about what I liked but the disappointment in the ending

 
Embedded video
 

Shadowing Chase. In the slot. He’s definitely comfortable in press alignment on the outside or slot. Good versatility to have when looking for a potential CB1 for your squad. The ability to line up inside or outside vs any type of receiver. Added value

 
Embedded video
 
 
 
 

Henderson is comfortable pressing receivers at the line of scrimmage and even as a nickel cornerback in a more confined space, which allows him to thrive in man coverage on top of his zone capabilities.

_3jg0iG9_normal.jpg

Brief break. I’ll be back shortly to finish the thread. Only a few more clips. Have to get situated at work real quick lol

 

YES CJ YES!!! THIS IS IT. Now always be this guy! I love the **** talking..I can see there’s a little back n forth. As someone who talked a lot of ****.. I can tell when someone talkin lol great work at the LOS. This is what I mean when I say be great. A lot of good. But be great

 
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Crocker notes that he wants to see more consistent confidence from Henderson in his play, as it will allow him to reach his potential as an all-around cornerback who can hold up consistently in press-man coverage. Confidence can be seen at its best use in Henderson's game in the clip above.

"I think confidence is huge at the cornerback position," said Crocker. "Every time you line up across from the receiver you have to truly believe 'I’m better than you', even if things aren’t going your way that game. You are one play away from being the hero.

"I think that’s that makes Okudah so good. Consistency," Crocker continued. "And he doesn’t have as much natural ability as Henderson."

Tackling

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CJ Henderson vs LSU/Chase thread starts now. Henderson is my CB1. I watched this film as if I were a coach. “Do we want to be good or great?” I nitpick with the thought in mind that he can be great. I hope y’all like it. Thread starts now

 
Embedded video
_3jg0iG9_normal.jpg

I’ve been defending Henderson and the whole tackling issue. Showed up a couple times this game. Including here on the first play of the game. I talk about what I liked but the disappointment in the ending

 
Embedded video
 
 
 
 

The biggest ding on Henderson's draft résumé is the tackling that he put on tape during the 2019 season, or lack thereof. There were plenty of moments where it looked like Henderson wasn't forcing himself off of blocks or would pull up early when attempting to make tackles, which has made analysts skeptical of his all-around play.

Crocker acknowledged that, while tackling is an issue right now for Henderson, it too is coachable given his natural ability.

"When I talk about ability, and that's what I love about him so much is he has the ability, now the biggest knock on him so far has been his tackling," Crocker continued.

 

"Just make the tackle, it doesn't have to be a big hit. He shot out of a cannon, good feet, you saw how quick he diagnosed it, very well. Now, just make the tackle... he has all of the ability in the world. Make the tackle there, I like how you saw it. I like the zone eyes. Now you've just got to make the play."

Team fit

Crocker went on to tell AllGators what he believes would be the best team fit for Henderson, without regards to the draft order.

"I think the narrative is that he’s just a press-man guy but I think he’s definitely scheme-versatile," Crocker began. "Ideally he’d be great with what Patriots do. A ton of man match up stuff. I love their defense."

The Patriots currently own the No. 23 overall pick in the upcoming draft, just outside of the top 20 where Henderson is projected to slide. However, a team such as the Miami Dolphins, who's head coach Brian Flores served Bill Belichick and the Patriots from 2004-18, would make sense with the 18th overall pick.

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