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gtech1

Epenesa combine

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9 minutes ago, A-TowN.- said:

Calais Campbell did 16 reps. Vic Beasley did 35 reps. Who would you rather have and who plays stronger?

Obviously there are exceptions.....but when I'm drafting somebody who's supposed strong point is his strength I'd like to see a little more....because he isn't going to offer anything else athletically.

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I see that Epenesa has his supporters.  That is fine, but does he fit into what we need?

My short answer is NO.  

E is a stout run defender and his game is the bull rush.  He may not be that strong by NFL standards, but he will catch up within two seasons.  Right now, he is a below average athlete and has little wiggle/flexibility.  That makes him a liability in rushing the passer from the DE position.  

Can he succeed in the NFL?  Absolutely.  You know that a hard-nosed guy like him will grind out a darn good career.  However, he is not going to succeed as a 4-3 DE.  He is either a 3-4 DE or will slide inside, and become a one-gap guy.  

Personally, I think there are greater interior DT's in this draft that will be available in the second round.  I think E should play for a 3-4 team.  If he does that, he will be one of the best and many of his supporters on these boards will crow about how great he is.  But, he will not be much of a success as a 4-3 DE...........and we run a 4-3.  

So, let's forget about Epenesa in the first round.  We have Cominsky and I believe he will eventually be a better 4-3 DE than Epenesa.  

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1 hour ago, FalconFanSince1969 said:

Obviously there are exceptions.....but when I'm drafting somebody who's supposed strong point is his strength I'd like to see a little more....because he isn't going to offer anything else athletically.

Right, there are exceptions, that’s my point. Again, Calais Campbell is one of the stronger interior DL and he benched it 16 times. I think if a player meets a requirement, that’s all that should matter. Also, it takes more than just a strong upper body to move OL. 

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35 minutes ago, A-TowN.- said:

For the record, I didn’t love Epenesa’s performance. But to put more stock into a players combine than their game tape is silly. As long as the player meets certain requirements at the combine, I think that’s all that matters. I’ll take an Epenesa and his 17 reps before I take a Qaadir Sheppard and his 32 reps.

This happens every single year 

I get that... but do we really need a Epenesa?? or rather have Delpit, Queen, Murray?? Will Epenesa be BPA on Defense when we pick??

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4 minutes ago, Fernando C. said:

I get that... but do we really need a Epenesa?? or rather have Delpit, Queen, Murray?? Will Epenesa be BPA on Defense when we pick??

Epenesa not my top pick, but would take him before those 3 personally.

curious to see what YGM runs at Pro Day. He didn’t run due to nursing a hammy, but had a 34” vert and looked pretty smooth in drills. He ‘only’ had 21 reps at 225 as well, which I guess isn’t terrible for having 35” arms.

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20 minutes ago, etherdome said:

That was an incredible record.  I wonder why more football historians don't bring that up.  

We are that irrelevant in the big scheme of things. :sadwave:

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21 minutes ago, Fernando C. said:

I get that... but do we really need a Epenesa?? or rather have Delpit, Queen, Murray?? Will Epenesa be BPA on Defense when we pick??

I’m more just playing devil’s advocate. I’m cool if we take Epenesa and cool if we pass on him. I’m just making an argument against putting too much stock into combine results. But I would take Epenesa over Queen & Murray right now.

Depends who is there tbh. He could be, but I’d rather trade back in this class. The second round will be full of starting caliber players like Cesar Ruiz, Joshua Uche, Jonathan Taylor, Antoine Winfield Jr., and Justin Madubuike. Just to name a few guys I want us to target.

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1 hour ago, FalconFanSince1969 said:

Remember when we all scoffed at Peter konz only putting up 18 reps in the bench press saying it was no big deal? Well in reality it showed an extreme lack of functional strength and he got completely run over and bullied at the NFL level.

Correlation =\= causation. There have been plenty of bench press warriors to be run over. 

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1 hour ago, A-TowN.- said:

I’m more just playing devil’s advocate. I’m cool if we take Epenesa and cool if we pass on him. I’m just making an argument against putting too much stock into combine results. But I would take Epenesa over Queen & Murray right now.

Depends who is there tbh. He could be, but I’d rather trade back in this class. The second round will be full of starting caliber players like Cesar Ruiz, Joshua Uche, Jonathan Taylor, Antoine Winfield Jr., and Justin Madubuike. Just to name a few guys I want us to target.

I just hope that TD does not get in love with a prospect and trade up.... we need 3 players from the first 2 rounds...

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7 hours ago, Fernando C. said:

I just hope that TD does not get in love with a prospect and trade up.... we need 3 players from the first 2 rounds...

I worry he will w Chaisson. He has potential, but the sporadic production and injury history scare me at 16, let alone in a trade up.

i am sure that extra second to third are burning a hole in TDs pocket though...

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6 minutes ago, 1989Fan said:

I worry he will w Chaisson. He has potential, but the sporadic production and injury history scare me at 16, let alone in a trade up.

i am sure that extra second to third are burning a hole in TDs pocket though...

Honestly, and I've felt this way for years, college production doesn't completely tell a players story. Throughout history we've seen players break and hold college records then get to the NFL and become obsolete. Guys like Antonio Gates go on to have better careers than some of these overhyped names we have seen over the years.

Mario Williams went #1 overall when almost all of his sacks in 2005 came against unranked schools. Granted he did exactly what he was supposed to do against crap competition but let that sink in. He went #1 overall based on potential. His size and power, just like Clowney that last year at SC, caused GM's and coaches to take the chance and it worked for the most part, Clowney is about to make QB money just to eat triple teams the next few years.

Then you take a guy like Charles Rogers, (Rest In Peace), most talented WR, won awards, voted All American and All Big Ten, career was a complete wash because he couldn't stay healthy. Aundray Bruce was #1 overall by the Falcons. 32 sacks in 11 years. Ryan Leaf, Ron Dayne, Tim Couch, Courtney Brown, Steve Spurrier(before my time), Peter Warrick, Aaron Curry, Jamarcus Russell, Chase Coffman, Harry Douglas. I can go on and on and on and on but you get the point. 

Again, don't twist it and think I'm saying production means nothing, I'm not saying that, but there have been far too many times here where the only thing that is mentioned is statistics. It goes beyond that in both NCAA and NFL. The injury factor is more important than stats IMO

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17 minutes ago, ya_boi_j said:

Honestly, and I've felt this way for years, college production doesn't completely tell a players story. Throughout history we've seen players break and hold college records then get to the NFL and become obsolete. Guys like Antonio Gates go on to have better careers than some of these overhyped names we have seen over the years.

Mario Williams went #1 overall when almost all of his sacks in 2005 came against unranked schools. Granted he did exactly what he was supposed to do against crap competition but let that sink in. He went #1 overall based on potential. His size and power, just like Clowney that last year at SC, caused GM's and coaches to take the chance and it worked for the most part, Clowney is about to make QB money just to eat triple teams the next few years.

Then you take a guy like Charles Rogers, (Rest In Peace), most talented WR, won awards, voted All American and All Big Ten, career was a complete wash because he couldn't stay healthy. Aundray Bruce was #1 overall by the Falcons. 32 sacks in 11 years. Ryan Leaf, Ron Dayne, Tim Couch, Courtney Brown, Steve Spurrier(before my time), Peter Warrick, Aaron Curry, Jamarcus Russell, Chase Coffman, Harry Douglas. I can go on and on and on and on but you get the point. 

Again, don't twist it and think I'm saying production means nothing, I'm not saying that, but there have been far too many times here where the only thing that is mentioned is statistics. It goes beyond that in both NCAA and NFL. The injury factor is more important than stats IMO

Agreed. The gap between college and the NFL is colossus. There are very few guys in any given draft class that are good enough right away to be significant contributors. It's all about projection... What kind of upside do they have? What's their work ethic like? How coachable are they? Can they stay healthy? Are they scheme diverse?

Watching tape alone or looking into a prospects college production isn't going to tell you that. I always roll my eyes when someone says any element of the scouting process, e.g. the combine or interviews, is irrelevant. The truth is, in a vacuum they are all meaningless and just a slice of a much larger pie. You've got to look at everything together to get a clearer picture of what that player might become - even then it's a lottery. 

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2 minutes ago, Smiler11 said:

Agreed. The gap between college and the NFL is colossus. There are very few guys in any given draft class that are good enough right away to be significant contributors. It's all about projection... What kind of upside do they have? What's their work ethic like? How coachable are they? Can they stay healthy? Are they scheme diverse?

Watching tape alone or looking into a prospects college production isn't going to tell you that. I always roll my eyes when someone says any element of the scouting process, e.g. the combine or interviews, is irrelevant. The truth is, in a vacuum they are all meaningless and just a slice of a much larger pie. You've got to look at everything together to get a clearer picture of what that player might become - even then it's a lottery. 

Completely agree. I'm of the belief that the Combine, Pro days and private workouts are in place to simply confirm what you've seen on film from a physical standpoint. To say they don't mean anything just simply isn't true at all but it's all a matter of opinion so i'll respectfully disagree each time. It's so much that goes into true player evaluation. This little stuff that we discuss daily is nothing compared to what teams are actually concerned about which is what you highlighted 

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1 hour ago, ya_boi_j said:

Completely agree. I'm of the belief that the Combine, Pro days and private workouts are in place to simply confirm what you've seen on film from a physical standpoint. To say they don't mean anything just simply isn't true at all but it's all a matter of opinion so i'll respectfully disagree each time. It's so much that goes into true player evaluation. This little stuff that we discuss daily is nothing compared to what teams are actually concerned about which is what you highlighted 

Completely agree.  You need to verify what you see on tape.  It doesn't take long to watch Epenesa play and look at those numbers to realize this guy doesn't athletically match up.  So I just don't feel as if you are getting  a pass rusher with this guy.  There are better players to be had at any point in round 1 lower than 16.  If you can trade back or even out of round 1, you get extra picks and still can get a good player with more value.

 

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13 minutes ago, isproab said:

Completely agree.  You need to verify what you see on tape.  It doesn't take long to watch Epenesa play and look at those numbers to realize this guy doesn't athletically match up.  So I just don't feel as if you are getting  a pass rusher with this guy.  There are better players to be had at any point in round 1 lower than 16.  If you can trade back or even out of round 1, you get extra picks and still can get a good player with more value.

 

Ironically in that very thread on Page 2 I made a reply to you saying I think he would be better suited as a DT. That opinion still hasn't changed. 

 

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Bench press is a poor indicator of the field strength for d lineman. Squat and power cleans should be more considered as they are exploding their power up from the ground through their legs, into their hips and forward toward the offensive lineman. 

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8 hours ago, ya_boi_j said:

Honestly, and I've felt this way for years, college production doesn't completely tell a players story. Throughout history we've seen players break and hold college records then get to the NFL and become obsolete. Guys like Antonio Gates go on to have better careers than some of these overhyped names we have seen over the years.

Mario Williams went #1 overall when almost all of his sacks in 2005 came against unranked schools. Granted he did exactly what he was supposed to do against crap competition but let that sink in. He went #1 overall based on potential. His size and power, just like Clowney that last year at SC, caused GM's and coaches to take the chance and it worked for the most part, Clowney is about to make QB money just to eat triple teams the next few years.

Then you take a guy like Charles Rogers, (Rest In Peace), most talented WR, won awards, voted All American and All Big Ten, career was a complete wash because he couldn't stay healthy. Aundray Bruce was #1 overall by the Falcons. 32 sacks in 11 years. Ryan Leaf, Ron Dayne, Tim Couch, Courtney Brown, Steve Spurrier(before my time), Peter Warrick, Aaron Curry, Jamarcus Russell, Chase Coffman, Harry Douglas. I can go on and on and on and on but you get the point. 

Again, don't twist it and think I'm saying production means nothing, I'm not saying that, but there have been far too many times here where the only thing that is mentioned is statistics. It goes beyond that in both NCAA and NFL. The injury factor is more important than stats IMO

Good post. Honestly his injuries scare me most. We have been injury riddled with top picks too many times man. (Baker, Jerry, Konz, Neal, Takk...that’s almost half of our top/round 1 picks in the TD era)

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1 minute ago, 1989Fan said:

Good post. Honestly his injuries scare me most. We have been injury riddled with top picks too many times man. (Baker, Jerry, Konz, Neal, Takk)

That's also why I disagree with the opinion that the Falcons should make a move for one of the upcoming $20 million pass rushers in FA. Be just they're luck they sign the player and he's injured for the season the first day of mini camp

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On ‎2‎/‎29‎/‎2020 at 6:56 PM, Draftnut57 said:

You can for get that.. We will not take a RB in the first rd,, or the 2nd , 3rd, 4th, ,,, if we take one,, I can promise you it will not be in the first 4 rounds. .There are some really really good RBs in Rd 5 to rd 7... if we even take one in the draft.. you never know,, but I'm not sure we will even draft a RB That is a position that you can pick up an undrafted player after the draft.. But we have HILL ,, SO IF we do get one in the draft.. it would probably be in round ,, 5-7.

We will take one no later than the 2nd.  Our RB's are Meh...

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