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TDWII’s Off-Season Observations & Mock; Feb 2020


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4 minutes ago, TheDirtyWordII said:

I understand the opposite view...at the same time, if there is anything TD has executed well, it’s trade ups.  Julio, Trufant, Takk, McGary...that’s a pretty impressive list of players to go get understanding the jury is still out with McGary.  But you could argue that in all 4 cases, the Falcons wound up with the much better haul.

I dunno about that. For one, if we're talking 1st round trade ups, Baker was...oof. Julio is awesome, but that 2011 class was stacked all around and we lost out on a lot - not gonna just look at who the dysfunctional Browns drafted to offer a verdict. There were definitely better players that went shortly after Trufant and most of the boards wanted Watt over Takk, who has been a better player for sure and went after we picked pre-tradeup. I love McGary but there is totally an argument there that we reached, esp considering the other tackles on the board and our other needs.

Regarding the mock - it does feel realistic, and I wouldn't be that upset depending on our FA. I like a lot of the players. Just feels like it doesn't move the needle much, yknow? I especially dislike that LB and the secondary are so neglected...but I get you overall. The realism and effort is appreciated

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8 minutes ago, Vandy said:

I hate trade ups. Yet it seems to be the primary way TD's been able to find any quality was when he went after his infatuated flavor of the draft. :ninja:

 

The jury is very much still out on Takk as well. 

BTW, interesting thread. 

 

Agree on Takk, but look at the DE’s drafted after him in 2017...really a bad class.

And boy did TD/DQ screw up the ‘5th year option plan’ statement yesterday.  Unreal...

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1 hour ago, Francis York Morgan said:

I dunno about that. For one, if we're talking 1st round trade ups, Baker was...oof. Julio is awesome, but that 2011 class was stacked all around and we lost out on a lot - not gonna just look at who the dysfunctional Browns drafted to offer a verdict. There were definitely better players that went shortly after Trufant and most of the boards wanted Watt over Takk, who has been a better player for sure and went after we picked pre-tradeup. I love McGary but there is totally an argument there that we reached, esp considering the other tackles on the board and our other needs.

Regarding the mock - it does feel realistic, and I wouldn't be that upset depending on our FA. I like a lot of the players. Just feels like it doesn't move the needle much, yknow? I especially dislike that LB and the secondary are so neglected...but I get you overall. The realism and effort is appreciated

I had forgotten about Baker...yep, he struggled,  But after Duane Brown was selected 5 picks after Baker...next next OT that year was the 65th pick.

I always think about Watt as an OLB, but even so, we didn’t have a shot at him @ 31, our original pick since he went the pick earlier.

 

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16 hours ago, Pacific_Falcon said:

Maybe I missed something, but what are we doing about campbell's roster spot here? Hard to imagine we blow off both LB and CB. We kind of need both and overlooking them to take a RB in the 2nd while taking neither later is hard to get on board with.

Agree completely.

I like Helaire, and would not be totally opposed to drafting him in the 2nd, but we really need to draft at least one DB/LB.

I also like Blacklock, but I really don't like the scenario where we trade picks to move up to take both Epenesa and Blacklock only to go RB with our (now) only 2nd rounder. It leaves too much of a gap at DB/LB in my opinion, and I feel like the combination of Epenesa/Blacklock isn't going to fill the exact needs we have on D. We are more in need of a speed rusher, LB and DB than we are two big DLmen.

I'd much rather trade down and get Blacklock + picks, or maybe even just grab Blacklock at #16, if we are completely sold on him. Just don't trade away our early picks. We need multiple players on D, not just 2 DL. I really don't like foregoing both DB and LB in the first couple of rounds, much less for the entire draft. DL is also deep this year, so we may even get a decent one in the second without moving back into the first. 

Maybe I should add that drafting Epenesa at 16 is probably my least favourite outcome of the possible drafts I've run in my head. Combining it with a trade up for another DL is a definite no go for me.

 

All that said, it seems like a very Falcons-like draft, so points for realism. 

Edited by niels petersen
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1 hour ago, niels petersen said:

Agree completely.

I like Helaire, and would not be totally opposed to drafting him in the 2nd, but we really need to draft at least one DB/LB.

I also like Blacklock, but I really don't like the scenario where we trade picks to move up to take both Epenesa and Blacklock only to go RB with our (now) only 2nd rounder. It leaves too much of a gap at DB/LB in my opinion, and I feel like the combination of Epenesa/Blacklock isn't going to fill the exact needs we have on D. We are more in need of a speed rusher, LB and DB than we are two big DLmen.

I'd much rather trade down and get Blacklock + picks, or maybe even just grab Blacklock at #16, if we are completely sold on him. Just don't trade away our early picks. We need multiple players on D, not just 2 DL. I really don't like foregoing both DB and LB in the first couple of rounds, much less for the entire draft. DL is also deep this year, so we may even get a decent one in the second without moving back into the first. 

Maybe I should add that drafting Epenesa at 16 is probably my least favourite outcome of the possible drafts I've run in my head. Combining it with a trade up for another DL is a definite no go for me.

 

All that said, it seems like a very Falcons-like draft, so points for realism. 

Couple of folks have weighed in about LB...which puzzles me a bit.  The total amount of LB snaps played by someone other than DeBo/Campbell was 318.  Oluokun played 312 of those.  From my POV, the ready made replacement we have for Campbell is Oluokun.  So the worry about LB seems misplaced...think you can find a one year vet minimum type player to fill that role, the role Oluokun played last year, no?

I do understand the notion of draft class depth at DL.  But here is who have become FA’s and are likely not back with the Falcons in 2020 from 2019’s DL.

Beasley (774 snaps)
Davison (568 snaps)
Clayborn (446 snaps)
Crawford (436 snaps)

...as mentioned, I do expect a significant FA signing and DL would be a likely positional target for those dollars to go toward.  But that still leaves a lot of snaps unaccounted for.  Combine that with the fact that after Grady, the Falcons have no contract obligations for proven DL in 2021...this is a positional group that needs a massive facelift.  And quite frankly, that applies to Week 1.

We all have player faves/unfaves - won’t look to sell you on AJ.
 

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21 hours ago, Knight of God said:

That’s the main issue. Roster gaps. No one there so fill it with a rookie. It’s cyclical here in the ATL. Not one playmaker and this isn’t a knock on your mock. It’s likely the draft we’ll have.

Who do you consider playmakers in the draft that could bolster the defense? 

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32 minutes ago, ShadyRef said:

Lol I like your style. You say so much with so little. Let me rephrase. Which position group, defensively, has the most playmakers in this year's draft? 

S, WR, DT, got some CBs, and RB.

Couple nasty OL guys with potential but nothing sure thing.

Couple LBs that could be game wreckers if used right.

 

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51 minutes ago, Ovie_Lover said:

S, WR, DT, got some CBs, and RB.

Couple nasty OL guys with potential but nothing sure thing.

Couple LBs that could be game wreckers if used right.

 

Which safeties and DL do you have in mind? Do you think we should get our playmakers in FA instead? If so, who would you target? I have a feeling we will at least bring in a high priced defensive FA for the first time. 

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1 hour ago, ShadyRef said:

Lol I like your style. You say so much with so little. Let me rephrase. Which position group, defensively, has the most playmakers in this year's draft?

I’ll say DBs early. I’m not as hyped about the DL in this draft as others are. I see some good ones though. CB is thin and not s severe need IMO unless we are offloading Trufant. Edge is weak, DT has about 4 or 5, LB is thin. Fact is, we are going to miss out on some good safeties and the board will applaud. We will likely grab DT, LB, and CB and you will see the same as has been.

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1 minute ago, Knight of God said:

I’ll say DBs early. I’m not as hyped about the DL in this draft as others are. I see some good ones though. CB is thin and not s severe need IMO unless we are offloading Trufant. Edge is weak, DT has about 4 or 5, LB is thin. Fact is, we are going to miss out on some good safeties and the board will applaud. We will likely grab DT, LB, and CB and you will see the same as has been.

Are there any dline you like in FA. I am a huge fan of Calais Campbell. I think him next to Grady will be more terrifying for our defense in the sense that it will make Takk and whomever we draft opposite of him look competent.

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35 minutes ago, ShadyRef said:

Are there any dline you like in FA. I am a huge fan of Calais Campbell. I think him next to Grady will be more terrifying for our defense in the sense that it will make Takk and whomever we draft opposite of him look competent.

I have to agree with you there. As far as DT in the FA, there are a few

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On 2/27/2020 at 9:00 AM, FalconsIn2012 said:

I think Blacklock or Elliott (at 320 lbs he may be better fit next to Grady) could start and make an impact once they are acclimated Year 1

Blacklock is weighing 290ish at the combine.He really wants to show off his athleticism going in at that weight.I think he’ll end up playing at 300-305ish.

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On 27.2.2020 at 2:10 PM, TheDirtyWordII said:

Couple of folks have weighed in about LB...which puzzles me a bit.  The total amount of LB snaps played by someone other than DeBo/Campbell was 318.  Oluokun played 312 of those.  From my POV, the ready made replacement we have for Campbell is Oluokun.  So the worry about LB seems misplaced...think you can find a one year vet minimum type player to fill that role, the role Oluokun played last year, no?

I do understand the notion of draft class depth at DL.  But here is who have become FA’s and are likely not back with the Falcons in 2020 from 2019’s DL.

Beasley (774 snaps)
Davison (568 snaps)
Clayborn (446 snaps)
Crawford (436 snaps)

...as mentioned, I do expect a significant FA signing and DL would be a likely positional target for those dollars to go toward.  But that still leaves a lot of snaps unaccounted for.  Combine that with the fact that after Grady, the Falcons have no contract obligations for proven DL in 2021...this is a positional group that needs a massive facelift.  And quite frankly, that applies to Week 1.

We all have player faves/unfaves - won’t look to sell you on AJ.
 

I think we will resign both Davison and Clay, because of the exact reason you mentioned: a lack of depth.

But it is also a question of depth at LB. We have Debo and Foye, but who else? As of right now we have 4 LBs on the roster - one being Devondre who is walking out the door, the other being Ahmad Thomas who had 1 tackle last year! We are dangerously thin at LB, and it will get exploited by our opponents if we line up with Debo, Foye and no-one else.

We have been bringin in vet FA LBs on short term deals for as long as Quinn has been here, a la Bruce carter type players. None seem to stick around or really produce. God forbid either Debo or Foye goes down to injury.

I understand we are thin at DL as well, but not as thin as LB IMO, if we sign Clay and Davison as I think we should.

I don't prefer Epenesa, but I understand the hole he could fill here. So I am ok if he is the pick, even if I'm not really thrilled. I just think, that if if we really feel like we need to double dip at DL, then don't trade up and throw away the extra picks, since DL is deep this year, and we could use those picks on a LB for example. We have too many holes/lack of depth on D to do that IMO, and we will continue to be behind the 8-ball roster building wise if we only come away with 5 players draft after draft.

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