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Falcons Fan MVP

Do you think that Carpenter and Brown's 2019 struggles were over exaggerated?

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Both guys got banged up in 2019. Both guys were playing in a new system. No player on our offensive line had a great year except maybe Chris Lindstrom who was hurt most of the season. 

I think that if the offensive line stays fairly healthy next year all of the players will look a lot better including Carpenter and Brown because thet will have had more time to gel. Our offensive line line up wasn't consistent most of the season so the guys didn't have time to gel. Not to mention our offensive coordinator didn't always do a lot to mask our struggling offensive line especially at the beginning. I think both Carpenter and Brown will likely play a lot better next year if they are brought back. Do you guys agree?

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No, neither helped the OL and Ryan was running for his life all year and given the amount we payed them both Ryan should have had much much better pass portection and we should have had a better run game.

Total whiff by TD which will hamper our team going forward.

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1 hour ago, Falcons Fan MVP said:

Both guys got banged up in 2019. Both guys were playing in a new system. No player on our offensive line had a great year except maybe Chris Lindstrom who was hurt most of the season. 

I think that if the offensive line stays fairly healthy next year all of the players will look a lot better including Carpenter and Brown because thet will have had more time to gel. Our offensive line line up wasn't consistent most of the season so the guys didn't have time to gel. Not to mention our offensive coordinator didn't always do a lot to mask our struggling offensive line especially at the beginning. I think both Carpenter and Brown will likely play a lot better next year if they are brought back. Do you guys agree?

New system, old system...healthy or banged up.....both Carp and Brown have always been lower tier OL. 

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12 minutes ago, Vandy said:

New system, old system...healthy or banged up.....both Carp and Brown have always been lower tier OL. 

Brown isn't a bad RG. Actually moves folks in the run game. Just way different from playing LG. The fits are different, the slides are different, so much about muscle memory and how you move is different - and that matters a lot when you're a 340 lb dude. See what @vel was saying.

But that's part of the issue. We knew what he was coming in. So why did we bring both of em in with top 30 salaries? Doesn't make any sense.

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44 minutes ago, vel said:

Carpenter was bad and you could clearly see Brown is not a LG. 

Not disagreeing with you but curious to what you meant by brown not being a LG.

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16 minutes ago, Francis York Morgan said:

Brown isn't a bad RG. Actually moves folks in the run game. Just way different from playing LG. The fits are different, the slides are different, so much about muscle memory and how you move is different - and that matters a lot when you're a 340 lb dude. See what @vel was saying.

But that's part of the issue. We knew what he was coming in. So why did we bring both of em in with top 30 salaries? Doesn't make any sense.

Saying he “Isn’t bad“ isn’t exactly a ringing endorsement though, is it FYM? I know I’m in the minority here, but I have argued over last two seasons that Wes wasn’t “bad”.  Heck, he’s been as good or better than brown or carp have ever been at 1/3 the cost. 
 

Brown’s play throughout his career has been too inconsistent to be a starter IMO. And especially (as you alluded) paying him as if a quality starter with that $6.5M cap hit this year which will be ugly. 

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14 minutes ago, bknowles said:

Not disagreeing with you but curious to what you meant by brown not being a LG.

He's played RG for his whole career.

11 minutes ago, Vandy said:

Saying he “Isn’t bad“ isn’t exactly a ringing endorsement though, is it FMF? I know I’m in the minority here, but I have argued in here that Wes wasn’t “bad”.  
 

Brown’s play throughout his career has been too inconsistent to be a starter IMO. And especially (as you alluded) paying him as if a quality starter with that $6.5M cap hit this year will be ugly. 

By "isn't bad," I mean I think he'd legitimately be an average RG with time to learn the playbook - and that's fine, especially considering you don't need great players everywhere on the OL. But dude isn't an LG at all and seemed flummoxed even trying to step in (didn't get a lot of snaps). I do agree with him getting paid way too much though. Hopefully McKay taking more responsibility limits the influence FAs have with signing here. But dude was arguably one of the Giants best OL when playing RG last year...I watched both him and Carpenter after hearing they signed and I was actually pretty optimistic on Brown. He helped their run game a ton after he started playing.

Then we drafted Lindstrom, and I realized the FO either didn't know what the **** they were doing or didn't care. Beats me dude.

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1 minute ago, Francis York Morgan said:

He's played RG for his whole career.

By "isn't bad," I mean I think he'd legitimately be an average RG with time to learn the system - and that's fine, especially considering you don't need great players everywhere on the OL. But dude isn't an LG at all and seemed flummoxed even trying to be one. I do agree with him getting paid way too much though. Hopefully McKay taking more responsibility limits the influence FAs have with signing here. But dude was arguably one of the Giants best OL when playing RG last year...I watched both him and Carpenter after hearing they signed and I was actually pretty optimistic on Brown.

Then we drafted Lindstrom, and I realized the FO either didn't know what the **** they were doing or didn't care. Beats me dude.

Good post. Don’t agree completely, but quality post.

You agree with me on Wes?

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4 minutes ago, Vandy said:

Good post. Don’t agree completely, but quality post.

You agree with me on Wes?

Can't remember what you said haha. But I think he's a quality "average" starter and every dude we've brought in to replace him has been worse, so I hope we re-sign him. What's your opinion on Wes?

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It's more than obivous TD has REAL issues evaluating talent along both trenches.

Over 12 years and on the both the OL and DL only 3 players have deen drafted or signed as a FA that were quality players for multiple years. Matthews, Mack, Grady. As far as OL and DL that's all we have to show for all the draft picks and FA singings along BOTH sides of the lines for over a doze n years. And Mack was such a no brainer my 10 year old would have signed him.

 

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8 minutes ago, Vandy said:

Saying he “Isn’t bad“ isn’t exactly a ringing endorsement though, is it FYM? I know I’m in the minority here, but I have argued over last two seasons that Wes wasn’t “bad”.  Heck, he’s been as good or better than brown or carp have ever been at 1/3 the cost. 
 

Brown’s play throughout his career has been too inconsistent to be a starter IMO. And especially (as you alluded) paying him as if a quality starter with that $6.5M cap hit this year which will be ugly. 

you're not the only one. Wes IMO should be locked in at LG. I have a suspicion that the folks that keep saying Wes is terrible haven't even watched him. they just see Matt get sacked and assume the line is terrible when a good 40% of the sacks were from blitzes because Koetter didn't start max protecting until the second half of the season and Matt ran into a lot of them. IMO Mack was almost the weakest link this season because if he's responsible for the line protections then there were a lot of times this season he got it wrong

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5 minutes ago, Francis York Morgan said:

Can't remember what you said haha. But I think he's a quality "average" starter and every dude we've brought in to replace him has been worse, so I hope we re-sign him. What's your opinion on Wes?

 

Just now, raysnill1 said:

you're not the only one. Wes IMO should be locked in at LG. I have a suspicion that the folks that keep saying Wes is terrible haven't even watched him. they just see Matt get sacked and assume the line is terrible when a good 40% of the sacks were from blitzes because Koetter didn't start max protecting until the second half of the season and Matt ran into a lot of them. IMO Mack was almost the weakest link this season because if he's responsible for the line protections then there were a lot of times this season he got it wrong

I somehow missed that was in the post...did it get edited in after? It's been a rough day ahaha. But yeah, Schweitzer wasn't bad. I disagree about Mack being bad personally, but I get what you're saying - I think a lot of it wasn't something Mack could remedy, and also remember a lot of TE and RB whiffs on protections that let guys practically run free.

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10 hours ago, Francis York Morgan said:

Can't remember what you said haha. But I think he's a quality "average" starter and every dude we've brought in to replace him has been worse, so I hope we re-sign him. What's your opinion on Wes?

LOL.
 

Wes “isn’t that bad” (:ninja:)either. What I keep wondering is why we kept bringing in these more expensive stiffs  (Fusco + Brown/Carp) to replace him when his play has been just as good as they’ve been. And at < half the cost. 

Brown/Carp are gonna cap hit us this year for >$11M. SMH, I use to think TD was pretty good on contracts. He got scammed on these. 

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3 minutes ago, Francis York Morgan said:

 

I somehow missed that was in the post...did it get edited in after? It's been a rough day ahaha. But yeah, Schweitzer wasn't bad. I disagree about Mack being bad personally, but I get what you're saying - I think a lot of it wasn't something Mack could remedy, and also remember a lot of TE and RB whiffs on protections that let guys practically run free.

I didn't say Mack was bad but if he's the guy that gives the other guys their blocking assignments then he needs to do better. I've seen plays where almost no one gets a hat on a guy. that should never happen  

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3 minutes ago, Vandy said:

LOL.
 

I keep wondering why we keep bringing in these more expensive stiffs  (Fusco + Brown/Carp) to replace him when his play has been just as good as they’ve been. And at < half the cost. 
 

Brown/Carp are gonna cap hit us this year for >$11M. SMH, I use to think TD was pretty good on contracts. He got scammed on these. 

I was really disappointed in Fusco. I remember that preseason game where a defender stepped on his guys foot and the announcer was like "Fusco with the nice pancake block" and people lost their stuff and the narrative became "Fusco was moving people on the line!" like I said at this point, the position might as well be his, he's gonna be starting by the end of the year anyway lol

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12 minutes ago, raysnill1 said:

you're not the only one. Wes IMO should be locked in at LG. I have a suspicion that the folks that keep saying Wes is terrible haven't even watched him. they just see Matt get sacked and assume the line is terrible when a good 40% of the sacks were from blitzes because Koetter didn't start max protecting until the second half of the season and Matt ran into a lot of them. IMO Mack was almost the weakest link this season because if he's responsible for the line protections then there were a lot of times this season he got it wrong

I’ve never understood all the Wes bashing ray. By fans and by coaching staff/management. He was thrown to wolves when young inexperienced and IMO did good work, especially for a low round draft pick. 
 

Reminds me how Folks hated on Biermann. 

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6 minutes ago, raysnill1 said:

I didn't say Mack was bad but if he's the guy that gives the other guys their blocking assignments then he needs to do better. I've seen plays where almost no one gets a hat on a guy. that should never happen  

There was definitely a lack of continuity in OL...but to be fair to Mack, he was working with rookies/new FAs and a makeshift line most of season.
 

And then there’s Koetter. 

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3 minutes ago, Vandy said:

I’ve never understood all the Wes bashing ray. By fans and by coaching staff/management. He was thrown to wolves when young inexperienced and IMO did good work, especially for a low round draft pick. 
 

Reminds me how Folks hated on Biermann. 

Except Biermann should've been a rotational player at best, and having him start was embarrassing lmao...did aight as a 5th rounder but let's not kid ourselves

4 minutes ago, raysnill1 said:

I was really disappointed in Fusco. I remember that preseason game where a defender stepped on his guys foot and the announcer was like "Fusco with the nice pancake block" and people lost their stuff and the narrative became "Fusco was moving people on the line!" like I said at this point, the position might as well be his, he's gonna be starting by the end of the year anyway lol

The Fusco stuff was nuts to me. TD seems desperate. TATF has actually been so much better than TD on the OL, we were all clamoring for Quentin Spain and dude got 2 mil on a 1 year deal and killed it.

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12 hours ago, Francis York Morgan said:

Except Biermann should've been a rotational player at best, and having him start was embarrassing lmao...did aight as a 5th rounder but let's not kid ourselves

The Fusco stuff was nuts to me. TD seems desperate. TATF has actually been so much better than TD on the OL, we were all clamoring for Quentin Spain and dude got 2 mil on a 1 year deal and killed it.

Re: Beerman

But that’s the thang, as a 5th rounder he exceeded expectations. It’s on GM/HC not to have brought in/drafted anyone better to be the starter. And they didn’t.

Re: Fusco

I would love to see a season where Blank threw TD/DQ et al out in streets and put you/Vel/KOG/PMF/fatboi/MS in charge for one full season. Duties divided up. 
 

No long-term 5 year gig, Just one-two years max to strut your stuff before Ryan/julio’s window closes.  How fun would that be? 

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2 minutes ago, Vandy said:

Re: Beerman

But that’s the thang, as a 5th rounder he exceeded expectations. It’s on GM/HC not to have brought in/drafted anyone better. And they didn’t.

Re: Fusco

I would love to see a season where Blank threw TD/DQ et al out in streets and put you/Vel/KOG/PMF/fatboi in charge for one  entire season. Duties divided up. 
 

No 5 year gig, Just one year to show your stuff. How fun would that be? 

We'd do better and the NFL would fall apart knowing the fans could do that lmao

But yeah, I get you on Biermann. Just think Schweitzer is better in that I think he isn't a bad mid-tier starter and we don't need great OL everywhere, whereas with Biermann it was a flat out mess on the DL. Falls on TD regardless. Big thing I'm worried about is Pioli leaving and TD saying "we forgot about the secondary." Yeah, I want more talent there, but I'm worried he neglects DL completely

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