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Summerhill

What if Austin Hooper is just another Jacob Tamme level player?

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Jacob Tamme was drafted by the Colts in the 4th round of the 2008 draft. He didn't play much his first two seasons because Dallas Clark was already the man. Clark got hurt and went on IR in 2010 and Tamme became a starter, totaling 631 receiving yards in 8 starts. 2011 was the full season Peyton Manning missed and with Clark back healthy, there weren't many passes for Tamme to catch. 

Tamme was a free agent in 2012 and re-joined Peyton Manning in Denver. He signed a 3-year $9 million contract. Right around this time Tony Gonzalez was making around $7 million per season so Tamme got half what the top TEs were making. Tamme had a good season in 2012 with 555 receiving yards but didn't play much the next two season with the emergence of Julius Thomas. 

The next season Tamme joined the Falcons and put up the most receiving yards of his career with 657 yards. 

If you had to sum up Tamme's career, you'd say he was a pretty good player who put up nice numbers when he got playing time and was playing with a good QB in a high volume passing offense but he wasn't any sort of defining player. 

What does that have to do with Austin Hooper? Are we really sure Hooper belongs with the Kelces and Kittles of the league or is he another Tamme? Would you have wanted to pay Tamme twice what he was making like he was Tony Gonzalez or Antonio Gates? 

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Sounds good to me. You don't have to be athletic to be a successful TE. It's a great addition but your main job is to be the QB's best friend, even more of a best friend than the receivers. People tend to think you need to run a 4.4 in order to get separation, that's not true. Also helps if you can contribute in the run game but out of all 32 starting in the NFL people can only name maybe 4-5 off the top of their head that are superb without looking at analytics. 

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3 minutes ago, ya_boi_j said:

Sounds good to me. You don't have to be athletic to be a successful TE. It's a great addition but your main job is to be the QB's best friend, even more of a best friend than the receivers. People tend to think you need to run a 4.4 in order to get separation, that's not true. Also helps if you can contribute in the run game but out of all 32 starting in the NFL people can only name maybe 4-5 off the top of their head that are superb without looking at analytics. 

In fairness most wont know their name unless we play them and they went off against us or they have a top ten play on sports center.

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Except Tamme never had a season in his career as good as the last 2 Hooper had.

It blows my mind so many want to move on from Hooper so we can spend the cap space on another teams cast offs. Grass isn’t always greener. 

if the plan is that the team just doesn’t value the TE spot heavily and they want to replace him in the draft (or they are that confident in what they have seen from Graham) that’s fine...but they better not go and piss away cap space on useless guys like Stocker to try and replace his production.

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Just now, Rings said:

In fairness most wont know their name unless we play them and they went off against us or they have a top ten play on sports center.

Oh I know.  The only reason most would know the 4-5 is because of media talk. Each year we have discussions about TE, RB, etc.... and one of the main things that gets brought up is protection. I was once told a few running backs were excellent pass blockers because the QB puts up big passing stats lol. But I'm not going to go completely off topic. 

But I still stand by that stance though. You don't have to be a fast TE to be productive. That's one of the big misconceptions today due to the play of guys like Kittle and Kelce. Fans see them play and think that's the standard when it's not. But I also stand by what I've been saying for months. TE's are making their way into the limelight like the RB's have slowly done in the past few years. 

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1 minute ago, ya_boi_j said:

Oh I know.  The only reason most would know the 4-5 is because of media talk. Each year we have discussions about TE, RB, etc.... and one of the main things that gets brought up is protection. I was once told a few running backs were excellent pass blockers because the QB puts up big passing stats lol. But I'm not going to go completely off topic. 

But I still stand by that stance though. You don't have to be a fast TE to be productive. That's one of the big misconceptions today due to the play of guys like Kittle and Kelce. Fans see them play and think that's the standard when it's not. But I also stand by what I've been saying for months. TE's are making their way into the limelight like the RB's have slowly done in the past few years. 

Being able to create separation matters more than speed, and they aren’t the same thing.  There have been slow guys that get open, plenty of fast guys who can’t create separation because of their route running.  

Tony G was slow as heck at the end, but he could still box people out to make a catch.  Ridley isn’t exactly a blazer by comparison to some, but he is an amazing route runner and gets open consistently more than most.

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4 minutes ago, 1989Fan said:

Except Tamme never had a season in his career as good as the last 2 Hooper had.

It blows my mind so many want to move on from Hooper so we can spend the cap space on another teams cast offs. Grass isn’t always greener. 

if the plan is that the team just doesn’t value the TE spot heavily and they want to replace him in the draft (or they are that confident in what they have seen from Graham) that’s fine...but they better not go and piss away cap space on useless guys like Stocker to try and replace his production.

Stocker, or so I thought, was intended to just be a blocking type TE with the occasional reception. For some reason, he became a primary target on some plays so that didn't make sense. I get the idea behind the move. It was just poor usage of him, especially early on in the season.

As for Hooper, most people, myself included, just want to make sure money is being used wisely. For example, last year, we were rumored to be very interested in Roger Saffold and made a play at him but ended up signing two guards "at the price of one". That money was clearly not used wisely looking back because Saffold beasted and Brown and Carpenter got benched. Getting Hooper back would be great because it's not my money they're using. It just should be used wisely. Personally, I'd like to see more focus on a vet pass rusher added and/or LG in FA...Although, it sounds like LG will be addressed in the draft according to Mr. Blank.

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1 minute ago, Rings said:

Being able to create separation matters more than speed, and they aren’t the same thing.  There have been slow guys that get open, plenty of fast guys who can’t create separation because of their route running.  

Tony G was slow as heck at the end, but he could still box people out to make a catch.  Ridley isn’t exactly a blazer by comparison to some, but he is an amazing route runner and gets open consistently more than most.

Just see when Michael Jenkins burned DeAngelo Hall in 2008. All it takes is getting a step on someone and the ability to run a route correctly as you stated.

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This is my thing:

Hooper is being mentioned with the Travis Kelce, George Kittle, and Zach Ertz. He's the youngest of the three. You'd assume him and Kittle have the biggest upside. In an offense with Julio, Sanu, and Ridley for most of this year, he was a clear 3rd/4th option.

If you want a clean comp, he's Zach Ertz. They put up the same kind of stats. Ertz has consistently been considered a top 3 TE in the league. Same size. Same speed. Same athleticism. Win in the same areas on the field. 

Hooper is a much better player than Tamme was and has more potential to develop into an even better player. He was literally on pace for a 1,000 yard season if he hadn't gotten hurt and missed 3 games. He's probably the best TE in the league that's 25 or younger. 

 

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It really comes down to one thing, and it's not is he good, or is he not good. Its is he worth $10 mil. + to this team, with this roster, at this time? I say no.  That doesn't mean that I don't think he is a good player.

Edited by Boise Falcon Fan

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17 minutes ago, Boise Falcon Fan said:

It really comes down to one thing, and it's not is he good, or is he not good. Its is he worth $10 mil. + to this team, with this roster, at this time? I say no.  That doesn't mean that I don't think he is a good player.

Take that amazing reasoning and deductive analytics elsewhere!!  /purp

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1 hour ago, Boise Falcon Fan said:

It really comes down to one thing, and it's not is he good, or is he not good. Its is he worth $10 mil. + to this team, with this roster, at this time? I say no.  That doesn't mean that I don't think he is a good player.

I have a hard time with that. Is Hooper worth $10MM per year by himself or will they spend that $10MM on keeping Jamon Brown and Ty Sambrailo?

With a FO who's been very much more miss than hit in free agency, I don't know if you can truly look at the opportunity cost of the $10MM without factoring in track record. 

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3 hours ago, 1989Fan said:

Except Tamme never had a season in his career as good as the last 2 Hooper had.

It blows my mind so many want to move on from Hooper so we can spend the cap space on another teams cast offs. Grass isn’t always greener. 

if the plan is that the team just doesn’t value the TE spot heavily and they want to replace him in the draft (or they are that confident in what they have seen from Graham) that’s fine...but they better not go and piss away cap space on useless guys like Stocker to try and replace his production.

They should. TEs have been severely undervalued for years, especially those in the mold of Gronk, Ertz, Kelce, and Kittle. Baltimore (Ozzie Newsome knows good TEs having been one himself) has two solid young TEs.

They play anywhere from 1 to 3 positions--OL, WR, or FB. If you have two good ones, you keep them. Wide receivers are a dime a dozen. TEs that are good blockers and receivers are hard to find.

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1 hour ago, vel said:

I have a hard time with that. Is Hooper worth $10MM per year by himself or will they spend that $10MM on keeping Jamon Brown and Ty Sambrailo?

With a FO who's been very much more miss than hit in free agency, I don't know if you can truly look at the opportunity cost of the $10MM without factoring in track record. 

You have a valid point, but the $10 mil. + savings may not be about going out and getting more players. It may just be about we've already spent that money on "Falcon For Life" contracts.

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41 minutes ago, Boise Falcon Fan said:

You have a valid point, but the $10 mil. + savings may not be about going out and getting more players. It may just be about we've already spent that money on "Falcon For Life" contracts.

But they'll eventually spend it. Not many players coming up worth renewing, so if they're going to spend on outside FA, that scares me more than paying Hooper a hefty deal. 

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Nobody works harder to get better than Hooper. If hes trying to set the market we cant afford him,  but make no mistake his absence will be felt. This years draft is THIN at TE. Koetters scheme depends on a solid TE, and Graham, whille he has promise, just isnt ready yet.

Hooper is criminally underrated simply because he doesnt run a 4.6

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5 hours ago, Summerhill said:

Jacob Tamme was drafted by the Colts in the 4th round of the 2008 draft. He didn't play much his first two seasons because Dallas Clark was already the man. Clark got hurt and went on IR in 2010 and Tamme became a starter, totaling 631 receiving yards in 8 starts. 2011 was the full season Peyton Manning missed and with Clark back healthy, there weren't many passes for Tamme to catch. 

Tamme was a free agent in 2012 and re-joined Peyton Manning in Denver. He signed a 3-year $9 million contract. Right around this time Tony Gonzalez was making around $7 million per season so Tamme got half what the top TEs were making. Tamme had a good season in 2012 with 555 receiving yards but didn't play much the next two season with the emergence of Julius Thomas. 

The next season Tamme joined the Falcons and put up the most receiving yards of his career with 657 yards. 

If you had to sum up Tamme's career, you'd say he was a pretty good player who put up nice numbers when he got playing time and was playing with a good QB in a high volume passing offense but he wasn't any sort of defining player. 

What does that have to do with Austin Hooper? Are we really sure Hooper belongs with the Kelces and Kittles of the league or is he another Tamme? Would you have wanted to pay Tamme twice what he was making like he was Tony Gonzalez or Antonio Gates? 

The guy missed three games in 2019 and was still a stone's throw away from posting a 1000 yard, 10 TD season, as a TE.

Hooper is way better than Tamme ever was.

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On 2/4/2020 at 11:57 AM, Summerhill said:

Jacob Tamme was drafted by the Colts in the 4th round of the 2008 draft. He didn't play much his first two seasons because Dallas Clark was already the man. Clark got hurt and went on IR in 2010 and Tamme became a starter, totaling 631 receiving yards in 8 starts. 2011 was the full season Peyton Manning missed and with Clark back healthy, there weren't many passes for Tamme to catch. 

Tamme was a free agent in 2012 and re-joined Peyton Manning in Denver. He signed a 3-year $9 million contract. Right around this time Tony Gonzalez was making around $7 million per season so Tamme got half what the top TEs were making. Tamme had a good season in 2012 with 555 receiving yards but didn't play much the next two season with the emergence of Julius Thomas. 

The next season Tamme joined the Falcons and put up the most receiving yards of his career with 657 yards. 

If you had to sum up Tamme's career, you'd say he was a pretty good player who put up nice numbers when he got playing time and was playing with a good QB in a high volume passing offense but he wasn't any sort of defining player. 

What does that have to do with Austin Hooper? Are we really sure Hooper belongs with the Kelces and Kittles of the league or is he another Tamme? Would you have wanted to pay Tamme twice what he was making like he was Tony Gonzalez or Antonio Gates? 

Hooper isn't Tamme. You guys make yourselves look silly posting all this dumb **** trying to make the point of not wanting to pay the guy .....

Just make the point, which has some validity. But don't make the strawman arguments that Hooper is Tamme. 

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