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With all due respect to Fitzgerald, but WTF?


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NFL's official throwback channel on youtube just came out with the best player at every jersey number. 

Congratualtions on Matt Ryan getting voted as the best player to ever wear the #2. 

Unfortunately, thats not why i made this post.

For the #11, Julio was one of the 3 players nominated for the #11. Not only did Julio get 0% of the votes, but Larry Fitzgerald got 100% of the votes?!?!?!? They went on to say, "Fitzgerald may very well be the 2nd best WR to ever lace 'em up." I love Larry, and have nothing but respect for him and what hes done in his career, and even more respect for how he has conducted himself as a man. He is in my All Time. elite WR group(essentially my 7 man Mt Rushmore for WR's). But wth? Other than his hands consistency and career numbers, what does he do better than Julio? When it comes to all time ranks, I feel lile Julio is vastly overlooked, and underappreciated. If you combine physical skill and god given ability with statiatical production, I think Julio is a top 3 WR ever with Calvin Johnson and Jerry Rice. The fact that he didnt even get one vote, is beyond disrespectful. Imo, peak Julio is better than peak Fitzgerald. 

On a side note, I mentioned above that i have a 7 man Mt Rushmore for the WR position, and i see these 7 WR's head and shoulders above every other WR to play the game of football. 

To get in this group, you have to match elite production with elite physical skills. 

Not in any order, but my WR Mt. Rushmore includes:

1) Julio Jones

2) Calvin Johnson

3) Jerry Rice

4) Randy Moss

5) Larry Fitzgerald

6) Terrell Owens

7) Andre Johnson

For a WR to get in this group they must have:

- Elite statistical production amd/or be near the top in multiple receiving records

- The whole package physically must include all or most if the following: speed, hops, length, strength, quickness, height, size(mass)

- Elite in all, or most, of the following skills: hands, route running, burst, ability to snag the ball at the apex, YAC, blocking, ability to beat double and triple teams, clutch factor, alpha mentality(wanting to be "the man")

- Ability to work your *** off, and simply have the desire to be the greatest WR of all time. While TO and Moss have had their past troubles in multiple locker rooms, they never stopped wanting to be the greatest WR of all time.

- these traits are not required, because TO and Moss havent consistently displayed alot of these traits: will to win(will sacrifice anything for the team to win the game), non-problematic(like i said, Moss and To have shown flashes, but their elite traits in other categories is what has put them on this list), tenacity/effort/never giving up on a play until after the whistle(Julio is a prime example of this, as he has on multiple occasions chased down defenders after an INT or fumble recovery to make a TD saving tackle/forcing a fumble on an opposing player that is returning an INT or fumble/sprinting at 100% effort to get down field and go the distance with the ball carrier just in case your teammate needs a block downfield, or keeping yourself around the ball in case your teammate fumbles the ball, and you go above and beyond to keep yojrself in the play and recover the ball, being able to flip a switch instantaneously to a defensive mindset and tackle a defender that looks to be potentially making an INT, or go all out and do what you can to break up the potential INT)

As you see my ELITE class of the greatest WR to ever play the game, do you guys agree with ny top 7(not the order, but just the players in it)? and if not, who is in your group of the greatest WR to ever play the game?/who is your 'cream of the crop' of all WR's to ever play in the NFL? Who is your best of the best/your Mt. Rushmore(cam be more than 4 WR's) for the WR position?

And in case you guys were wodnering, here is my offical rankings of my top WR of all time:

1) Julio Jones - When it comes to having the whole package from every possible aspect, being the definition of a pure football player, and not just a WR, Julio is the ONLY WR of the 7 in my elite class to check EVERY SINGLE BOX/TRAIT. He is the 1st WR to ever have 5 straight 1,400 yards seasons, and was 6 yards away from pushing that streak to 6 in 2019, and he even missed a game this year. That streak definitley would have been pushed to 6 straight seasons had he played every game, or even got just one more catch lol. He is the epitome of a team player, and is arguably one of the best, if not the best, blocking WR in NFL history. Does all the small things, and embodies the true meaning of The Brotherhood, along with what it means exactly to be an Atlanta Falcon!

2) Calvin Johnson - Calvin Johnson, better known as Megatron, may have the biggest catch radius in NFL history, and has displayed many of times that you can literally juat 'throw it up', and #81 will come down with it more often than not. He managed to make Matthew Stafford look like a Pro Bowl QB for a string of seasons, which is a mountain of a task in itself.  

3) Jerry Rice - Since atheltes develop and evolve over time, how Jerry would produce in todays NFL has been a question many have asked in the past. In my honest opinion, Jerry Rice in todays NFL would essentially be prime Antonio Brown, but slightly better at everything, while not being a team cancer. Jerry didnt have the WHOLE physical package like Julio and Megatron do/did, but more than likely might have the best fundamentals of any WR on this list. The legend comes in at #3 on my 7 Man Mt. Rushmore of WR list. 

4) Randy Moss - In terms of combining fraksish athleticism that fits the WR position speciafically, as well as freakish instincts, Randy Moss might be the most natural, and best at displaying that, and more than any of the 7 WR's on this list. I hate to use Madden terms when describing a players skill, but saying Moss has the best 'spectacular catch' ability of any player to ever play in the NFL is no understatement. When there is a ridiculously tough catch and that type of catch gets coined in honor of your name, due to how often you make those kinds of catches("Moss'd") then you are obviously doing something right. 

5) Larry Fitzgerald - I originally had Fitz at 6, and Andre Johnson at 5, but you have to take into account the longevity Larry has displayed over the course of a career that started all the way back in 2004, while also acknowledging his performances in big, crucial games. After announcing he will return for a 17th NFL season, its almost a modern miracle that Mr. Fittzgerald has remained realtively durable for a vast majority of the 16 seasons he has under his belt. When you have had the likes of Carson Palmer being one of your better QB's you've ever played with, and had to perform with the likes of John Skelton under center, and you STILL produced to the level of a HoFer, then that is a true testiment to both your skill and patience lol. Before 2019, Fitzgerald has not had an above average QB in as long as i could remember. He has never complained once either. A true professional. When he did have a pro bowl caliber QB back under center in Kurt Warner over a decade ago, Larry was putting up some of the most dominant, clutch, 'big-time' performances we have seen from a WR in a long time. His statistical perfomance in that SB vs. the Steelers, as well as the playoff games leading up to the SB, was nothing short of pure domination from a WR. In my opinion, he set the standard for players like Calvin Johnson, Julio Jones, AJ Green, amd DeAndre Hopkins on just how to conduct yourself as a professional WR in the NFL, after seeing polar opposites like Randy Moss and TO be the epitome of how you DON'T want your young, star WR's to conduct themselves in the locker room, as well as with the media the decade before Fitzgerald's emergance as one fo the top WR's in the NFL. He set the blueprint for how to be a consummate professional at the WR position.

6) Andre Johnson - Probably the strongest WR on this list(yes, including TO), Andre Johnson is arguably the most underrated WR in NFL history. He made former Houston Texans starting QB, and current Falcons backup QB, Matt Schaub look like a pro bowler for a string of multiple years, and that might be one of the most impressive accomplishments of any WR on this list. I stand by the statement that Andre is the most underrated and overlooked(in terms of listing the greats) WR in NFL history, but even Matt Schaub couldnt stop him from putting up huge numbers, before it was a common sight in the NFL from the WR position. You add a little athleticism and speed to Johnsons makeup, and you essentially have a 2nd Julio. Thats how talented and dominant prime Andre Johnson was for the Houston Texans. 

7) Terrell Owens - While many may have negative things to say about TO the person, you can never question his confidence, toughness, and his performances in big games. Ownes was tough as nails, and would go acroas the middle without any hesitation, or worry about the big hit that could be coming. I think it was easier for him than other WR's, due to Owens' muscular body that looked like it was chiseled to resemble one of the greek gods. Owens was kind of the first of his kind, essentially the prototype, when it came to big framed WR that had true breakaway speed and big play ability to take the ball the diatance every time he touched it. Before Owens, the top WR's in the NFL were either bigger bodies that had their speed compromised due to their large bodies, or you were a smaller WR that would compromise their overall size and strength for speed and quickness. Owens changed that narrative, and all 32 teams in the NFL have been using that same blueprint when finding their next WR1 to be the workorse pass catcher for the team. Owens flipped the script for WR's after him, and showed that you could find a 6'3" 225 lbs. WR that could get 50+ YAC on a play, while also running through defenders like a power back, and making defenders miss like a scat back or slot WR. While he had some inconsistencies with his hands over his career, he would ALWAYS make the most important, and biggest catches of the game. Whether it was on a screen to get 30 YAC, or a jumpball on a 50 yard bomb. There wasnt any kind of pass, to anywhere on the field, that he couldn't go up and snag over multiple defenders. Even with all the problems he caused in locker rooms during his career, teams would still be waiting in line every time he was a FA, willing to risk the entire teams chemistry in the chance it backfires, due to his ability to completely demolish opposing teams entire defensive gameplans for trying to shutdown, or contain him. He kept many opppsing defensive coordinators up at night jaut trying to figure out a way to keep the ball out of his hands. Not only was he essentially the first WR of his kind, but tall, lengthy, and strong CB's were far less common back in his prime, so stopping him was even ahrder when the average CB back then was around 5'10-5'11" and often weighed in under, or around, 200 lbs. He was too big and strong for most CB's, and too athletic and fast for LB's, and even the average Safety back then. He was simply a true matchup nightmare. 

*****NOTE: I understand Mt. Rushmore lists are usually only 4 names. Obviously i tweaked it to however many players I see as better than every other WR's to ever play the game.

Edited by LaurentRobinsonDaGawd
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Take off the homer glasses.   Also Fitz has been in the league 15 seasons.  Fitz has 9 seasons of 1,000+ yards.  Julio has only been in the league for 9 years.  Fitz has also missed only 6 games

It’s only an opinion. There’s nothing wrong with Fitz getting 100% considering his consistency throughout his career. 

Maybe.  But we aren't talking about hypotheticals.  We are talking what about they have done until now.  Fitz has had the better career, end of story.  So why would Julio be ranked ahead of him?  Lets

Take off the homer glasses.  

Also Fitz has been in the league 15 seasons.  Fitz has 9 seasons of 1,000+ yards.  Julio has only been in the league for 9 years.  Fitz has also missed only 6 games in his career, whereas Julio has missed 18 games.  Fitz has 11 pro bowl appearances (not that it really matters anymore) to Julio's 7.  Fitz has 5 seasons with 10 or more TDs, whereas Julio only has 1.  

Maybe by the time Julio is finished he could end up being better, but right now I think you got to give it to Fitz at this point.   

Edited by dawgsjw
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28 minutes ago, Wjcorner said:

Holy long post....

 

I do find it funny you start your argument saying ‘sure he has the hands, consistency, and career numbers but...’

 

I said he had the consistsncy in his hands(less drops) and career nunbers because hes played alot longer. Julios peak is better than Larrys peak. Julio is becomong the quickest to all the yardage mileatonea the past couple years. Julios been more consistent staiatically. He also has the highest yards per game in NFL history. He does everything that randy and calvin do, and does more in terms of blocling and effort. Hes a better route runner and better at yards after catch. Hes more elusive as well. 

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33 minutes ago, Wjcorner said:

Funny enough they both have two of the best plays in a losing SB effort...might rank them 1a and 1b

Im saying that julio also has the most versatile set of skills in his toolbox than any WR ever. He is the best overall WR, and gives the most effort on a snap to snap basis than any of the other greats. Effort only probably matched by jerry, but jerry doesnt have the physical tools julio does. 

Edited by LaurentRobinsonDaGawd
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36 minutes ago, dawgsjw said:

Take off the homer glasses.  

Also Fitz has been in the league 15 seasons.  Fitz has 9 seasons of 1,000+ yards.  Julio has only been in the league for 9 years.  Fitz has also missed only 6 games in his career, whereas Julio has missed 18 games.  Fitz has 11 pro bowl appearances (not that it really matters anymore) to Julio's 7.  Fitz has 5 seasons with 10 or more TDs, whereas Julio only has 1.  

Maybe by the time Julio is finished he could end up being better, but right now I think you got to give it to Fitz at this point.   

So youre saying he's on track to shatter all of Larry's numbers? Thats my point. Yards is the most important WR stat, and TD's are dependent on a lot if other factors. 

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4 minutes ago, LaurentRobinsonDaGawd said:

So youre saying he's on track to shatter all of Larry's numbers? Thats my point. Yards is the most important WR stat, and TD's are dependent on a lot if other factors. 

Maybe.  But we aren't talking about hypotheticals.  We are talking what about they have done until now.  Fitz has had the better career, end of story.  So why would Julio be ranked ahead of him?  Lets revisit this in 10-20 years and you might have a point by then.  But right now, Julio is behind Larry.  Plus lets not forget that the WR's qb or qbs in Fitz's case, has a lot to do with their stats.  I never looked it up, but Fitz had some really bad qbs during his time in ARI.  Julio has been lucky so far to have a HOF in M Ryan his whole career.  

Plus if we looking at yards, Fitz has way more yards than Julio.  Just because you feel some deep tingling within you, doesn't make it true.  Let Julio play 15 seasons and then he probably passes Fitz on the all time WR list.  But not right now.  

Edited by dawgsjw
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14 minutes ago, LaurentRobinsonDaGawd said:

So youre saying he's on track to shatter all of Larry's numbers? Thats my point. Yards is the most important WR stat, and TD's are dependent on a lot if other factors. 

If yards is your point then Julio still has 5,000 yards to go before he catches Fitz. So if the conversation is about right now, by your standards Fitz definitely deserved 100% of the votes. He couldn’t do anything about his qb situation in that 3 year stretch that he didn’t crack 1000 yards. I feel confident saying had it not been for that 3 year stretch he would have put up 11 consecutive 1000 yard seasons.  Palmer wasn’t the same his first season there and he got injured his second season. They had defense though

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Just now, ya_boi_j said:

If yards is your point then Julio still has 5,000 yards to go before he catches Fitz. So if the conversation is about right now, by your standards Fitz definitely deserved 100% of the votes. He couldn’t do anything about his qb situation in that 3 year stretch that he didn’t crack 1000 yards. I feel confident saying had it not been for that 3 year stretch with **** at qb he would have put up 11 consecutive 1000 yard seasons. 

Not only that, but look at the qbs for ARI.  Yes Fitz had Kurt Warner but at the twilight of his career.  And Warner only  had 1 season with ARI with over 4,000 passing yards.  Then Fitz had Derek Anderson, Kevin Kolb (WHO???), John Skelton (WHO?), Carson Palmer (not bad), Drew Stanton, Josh Rosen and now Kyler Murray.  Palmer did have 3 years with over 4,000 yards with ARI.  So Fitz only had 4 seasons with a qb throwing for over 4,000 yards.  How many has M Ryan done?  

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16 minutes ago, dawgsjw said:

Maybe.  But we aren't talking about hypotheticals.  We are talking what about they have done until now.  Fitz has had the better career, end of story.  So why would Julio be ranked ahead of him?  Lets revisit this in 10-20 years and you might have a point by then.  But right now, Julio is behind Larry.  Plus lets not forget that the WR's qb or qbs in Fitz's case, has a lot to do with their stats.  I never looked it up, but Fitz had some really bad qbs during his time in ARI.  Julio has been lucky so far to have a HOF in M Ryan his whole career.  

Plus if we looking at yards, Fitz has way more yards than Julio.  Just because you feel some deep tingling within you, doesn't make it true.  Let Julio play 15 seasons and then he probably passes Fitz on the all time WR list.  But not right now.  

I guess my whole argument was how does Julio get 0% of the votes, when Julios peak is better than Larrys peak. I am starting to get the career numbers argument. 

Heres some interestimg stats though:

1,300 yard seasons:

Jerry - 7

Julio - 6

Randy - 6

Larry - 4

Calvin - 4

Calvin played 9 seasons, and Julio has played 9 seasons. Julio has more yards, and receptions. 

This thread started as something fun to have each other rank our all time WR's list.

The best player to wear #11 was soemthing i thought you guys would find interesting, but uts what compelled me to make a top WR all time liat, and was wondering where you guys think Julio will end his career in your all time WR rankings. 

Also, Randy is right around exactly 3k yards ahead of Julio. Thats right around 32 gamea if he averages 1,500 the next two years.

Not trying to start negative arguments, I justw anted to ahve a discusaion about the greatest Falcon in team history, and have a positive conversation about where he may fall when its all said and done. 

 

Edited by LaurentRobinsonDaGawd
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11 minutes ago, dawgsjw said:

Maybe.  But we aren't talking about hypothetical.  We are talking what about they have done until now.  Fitz has had the better career, end of story.  So why would Julio be ranked ahead of him?  Lets revisit this in 10-20 years and you might have a point by then.  But right now, Julio is behind Larry.  Plus lets not forget that the WR's qb or qbs in Fitz's case, has a lot to do with their stats.  I never looked it up, but Fitz had some really bad qbs during his time in ARI.  Julio has been lucky so far to have a HOF in M Ryan his whole career.  

Plus if we looking at yards, Fitz has way more yards than Julio.  Just because you feel some deep tingling within you, doesn't make it true.  Let Julio play 15 seasons and then he probably passes Fitz on the all time WR list.  But not right now.  

 

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1 minute ago, dawgsjw said:

Not only that, but look at the qbs for ARI.  Yes Fitz had Kurt Warner but at the twilight of his career.  And Warner only  had 1 season with ARI with over 4,000 passing yards.  Then Fitz had Derek Anderson, Kevin Kolb (WHO???), John Skelton (WHO?), Carson Palmer (not bad), Drew Stanton, Josh Rosen and now Kyler Murray.  Palmer did have 3 years with over 4,000 yards with ARI.  So Fitz only had 4 seasons with a qb throwing for over 4,000 yards.  How many has M Ryan done?  

Oh trust I get it. I had to go back and edit that post probably as you were replying

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3 minutes ago, LaurentRobinsonDaGawd said:

i still think we have the more talented WR. Julio should shatter Larrys numbers, and ut wont even be close. Julio is on traxk to break Randys yatds and receptions nunbers over the next 2-2.5 seasons. Im just trying to celebrate our dude and have a fun conversation. 

In the end maybe but as of right now he hasn’t. Has another 4 seasons minimum, maybe 3 sub 2000 yard seasons before he passes Fitz. Not to mention Fitz is coming back this season so that may push it to 5 seasons minimum before he passes Fitz. Plus Fitz is only 36 and never had a major injury. Depending on how he’s feeling he could play another 2 seasons 

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1 minute ago, ya_boi_j said:

Oh trust I get it. I had to go back and edit that post probably as you were replying

Would you rather have prime larry, or prime julio? Hes already got more 1,300 yard seasons(6:4). Hes a more dynamic playmaker. Just trying to celebrate our guy, because i dont think alot of people realize just how high hes getting in the REC and Yards record books, and jut how high he may go. 

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Not to mention the lost 2013 season where he was leading the league in yards by a wide margin, and was on track for over 1,800 yards. Not saying he would have finished with that, but he has done nothing to orove he wouldnt have gotten atleast 1,600 that year had he played 16 games. Like i said, the Larry jersey thing was an interesting point to start the post. Where i wanted this coversation to go is where you think he will rank on your personal list, as well as what legendary WR's you think he will pass in Yards amd Receptions whem its all said and done. You could argue that Prime Julio may be a top 2-3 WR ever. 

Edited by LaurentRobinsonDaGawd
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9 minutes ago, LaurentRobinsonDaGawd said:

Would you rather have prime larry, or prime julio? Hes already got more 1,300 yard seasons(6:4). Hes a more dynamic playmaker. Just trying to celebrate our guy, because i dont think alot of people realize just how high hes getting in the REC and Yards record books, and jut how high he may go. 

No one is saying you shouldn’t celebrate Julio man. Right now Julio is the best Falcons receiver of all time. He’s not the overall greatest receiver of all time in the NFL. And by your standards(yardage), to this point, he’s not the greatest to wear #11. He still has a lot of years left to play. You’re just getting different opinions other than your own. 

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9 minutes ago, ya_boi_j said:

No one is saying you shouldn’t celebrate Julio man. Right now Julio is the best Falcons receiver of all time. He’s not the overall greatest receiver of all time in the NFL. He still has a lot of years left to play. You’re just getting different opinions other than your own. 

I agree he may get a career ending i jury tomorrow. I didnt make the original post to **** ride Julio, but i was just noticing that his numbers, especially like the # of 1,300 yerd seasons and total yards are starting t get into legendary coversation. Im saying that Prime Julio very well could go down as the best statiatical WR in history, as well as skills wise. Like is said above, calvin played 9 seasons. Julio just finished his 9th season. Many think calvin was the most dominant WR ever, but besides TD, Julio shattered every single stat that calvin put up in his career. Nto to emntion we have been using him in the red zone awfully ever since roddy left, and often used as a decoy close to the endzone. A lot of his TD's in his career are "grown men" plays that are 50+ yard plays where he manhandles the oppoaing team, or just shows his superior athleticism on the YAC or a deep ball, sometimes combined with a flashy toe tap.  You ciuld make a stro g argument now that Julio has jumped Calvin in all time rankings. I honestly am not coming from a "homer" aspect, but Prime Julio may go down aa one of the best WR primes the nfl has ever seen. Hes already go the stats(outside) of TF on his side. Has had the all time yarda ler game recors for like 4 or 5 years minimum. 

Edited by LaurentRobinsonDaGawd
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