Shanny has moved on..

[AUTiger7222]

2 hours ago, Wjcorner said:

Ok...it’s definitely dumb to say we should’ve promoted Shanahan...besides being bad for business, we just had a 2nd year head coach lead us to a SB and install what looked like a bright future defensively with stalwarts like the sack leader Vic, new age LB Debo, hybrid LB Campbell and baby Geno Grady. So that’s nuts...but I can’t imagine any Falcons fan moving on from Shanahan until this offensive core leaves/retires, or we get back to that 2016 magic. 

The Falcons will never have another season like 2016 and to expect that to happen again is so unrealistic. Even if Shanny had stayed for 2017 the offense would have regressed simply due to the fact that we're dealing with humans and humans are failable. We had the perfect storm of events happen to allow 2016 to happen. The entire offensive line started every game together and there were very few injuries on that side of the ball. Ryan was darn near perfect, the receivers caught everything, all the blocks were made and the running backs found the holes and did damage. Everything was perfect. That wasn't gonna happen again.

It's why folks think Sark was a terrible OC because the offense regressed even though it was still really good, especially in 2018 when Ryan had 35 TD and only 7 INT and the Falcons averaged 25.9 points per game, which is really freaking good. But because he wasn't Shanny and the offense didn't score a historic 33 points per game he got ran out of town and now we're stuck with Koetter.

Even Shanny in all his years as OC has only had a top 10 scoring offense twice in 12 years. He's ranked 21st or worse 6 times. It's because you can't guarantee success year-to-year. Every year is different and new in it's own regard.

[FalconsIn2012]

4 minutes ago, AUTiger7222 said:

The Falcons will never have another season like 2016 and to expect that to happen again is so unrealistic. Even if Shanny had stayed for 2017 the offense would have regressed simply due to the fact that we're dealing with humans and humans are failable. We had the perfect storm of events happen to allow 2016 to happen. The entire offensive line started every game together and there were very few injuries on that side of the ball. Ryan was darn near perfect, the receivers caught everything, all the blocks were made and the running backs found the holes and did damage. Everything was perfect. That wasn't gonna happen again.

It's why folks think Sark was a terrible OC because the offense regressed even though it was still really good, especially in 2018 when Ryan had 35 TD and only 7 INT and the Falcons averaged 25.9 points per game, which is really freaking good. But because he wasn't Shanny and the offense didn't score a historic 33 points per game he got ran out of town and now we're stuck with Koetter.

Even Shanny in all his years as OC has only had a top 10 scoring offense twice in 12 years. He's ranked 21st or worse 6 times. It's because you can't guarantee success year-to-year. Every year is different and new in it's own regard.

We probably win the SB in 2017 if Shanny gave us one more year.  

[AUTiger7222]

Just now, FalconsIn2012 said:

We probably win the SB in 2017 if Shanny gave us one more year.  

You don't know that. No one does. That's the problem here. You're guessing just like everyone else and your guess is only because you think The offense would have scored 33 points per game again in 2017 like it did in 2016 when that more than likely wouldn't have happened. There's a reason teams don't have historically great offensive seasons multiple years in a row and it's for the reasons I listed.

The Falcons lost to the Eagles in the playoffs with the offense doing nothing. Folks don't remember the Falcons losing to the Eagles in 2016 with Shanny because the offense only scored 15 points in that game.

[kiwifalcon]

19 minutes ago, AUTiger7222 said:

You don't know that. No one does. That's the problem here. You're guessing just like everyone else and your guess is only because you think The offense would have scored 33 points per game again in 2017 like it did in 2016 when that more than likely wouldn't have happened. There's a reason teams don't have historically great offensive seasons multiple years in a row and it's for the reasons I listed.

The Falcons lost to the Eagles in the playoffs with the offense doing nothing. Folks don't remember the Falcons losing to the Eagles in 2016 with Shanny because the offense only scored 15 points in that game.

I tell you what I do no I bet we don’t regress by 11 points if KS stays that extra year.Thats what happend in 17 under Sark.Not all his fault but the step back from Sark to KS was a gulf a seriously wide gulf.

[Ergo Proxy]

1 hour ago, FalconsIn2012 said:

We probably win the SB in 2017 if Shanny gave us one more year.  

 

34 minutes ago, kiwifalcon said:

I tell you what I do no I bet we don’t regress by 11 points if KS stays that extra year.Thats what happend in 17 under Sark.Not all his fault but the step back from Sark to KS was a gulf a seriously wide gulf. 

Agreed. The drop off from Kyle to Sark was the primary reason we didn’t get past PHI.

^The defense was much better in the RZ and bent but didn’t break...a nice leap from that unit despite not being elite as a defense...and one that our offense should’ve been able to go further with but alas our RZ offense hindered us.

[kiwifalcon]

4 minutes ago, Schwarzwald said:

 

Agreed. The drop off from Kyle to Sark was the primary reason we didn’t get past PHI.

^The defense was much better in the RZ and bent but didn’t break...a nice leap from that unit despite not being elite as a defense...and one that our offense should’ve been able to go further with but alas our RZ offense hindered us.

Still trying to move foward.

Feels like us as a team have stood still across the board while everyone else has kept moving.

A shame really as I’m basically at the whatever stage now.I hope Koetters better even though I can’t stand him as a OC.I don’t buy into a leopard changing his spots and I think when it matters if we have to lean on this offense it will come up short.

Many may disagree and I’m not speaking for anyone else but that’s just where my heads at with regards to our offense.

[Ergo Proxy]

23 minutes ago, kiwifalcon said:

Still trying to move foward.

Feels like us as a team have stood still across the board while everyone else has kept moving.

A shame really as I’m basically at the whatever stage now.I hope Koetters better even though I can’t stand him as a OC.I don’t buy into a leopard changing his spots and I think when it matters if we have to lean on this offense it will come up short.

Many may disagree and I’m not speaking for anyone else but that’s just where my heads at with regards to our offense.

I trust in the players on offense tho.

If the defense we saw show up the final 8 games continues as the new norm? I believe in the offense doing enough with chances. 6-2 and the defense almost let the offense come back vs the Hawks led by Schaub.

I think Dirk needs to improve but year 2 is a big point on in what way that is accomplished. Many details, but suffice to say it could get better.

If we have a defense that helped us win 2 away games vs the #1 and #3 seed then I like our chances rather than relying on shootout football with perhaps a better offensive situation. It does seem to me like Sark coulda kept growing into the job this past season and we’d be looking at a possible year 4 for him...and now we await to see if Dirk can surpass year 2 Sark; kinda unfair given it was year 4 under that system but that’s just it...what will Dirk even be running?!   !!!?

On the positive, even after the season we are bolstering coaching on the defensive side of the ball...that’ll help with the young players we draft/add and any outside vet FAs that need to be brought up to speed. I expect possibly some drop off at first as a result, but how much by losing a Vondre or a Vic do you really lose??

I’m more concerned with losing Tyeler and also right there is AC as a guy to bring back. Give them both $2M and let’s go or try to upgrade them if possible. I know we can at least upgrade Vondre and Vic vs their likely UFA market prices. Idk what losing Crawford will be like but he was invisible this year. TBD on retaining Bailey, Tru, etc...but you like to think Cominsky could be due for a breakout year 2 and become what we hope as another force along the DL. Dude showed flashes in limited snaps. Is he a 5T type DE in base and a 3T in sub packages?

Lets go with FA/roster shaping and Draft!

Time for hope before 31 teams don’t win it all next year this time.

Edited February 3, 2020 by Schwarzwald

[Ezekiel 25:17]

22 hours ago, Gibson's Finest said:

He **** sure thinking about it today

Well DEFINITELY this morning he is! 

[Ezekiel 25:17]

10 hours ago, ThemDarnFalconsBoy! said:

https://929thegame.radio.com/articles/49ers-kyle-shanahan-jimmy-garoppolo-joke-about-28-3?utm=newsbreak

Andy "Choke" Reid finally met his match against an even bigger choker. Kyle "Superbowl Lead Blower" Shanahan! 

And Andy Sho Nuff Tried but the night belonged to Kyle as he wasn't going to be denied!!! Even added an extra TD to the total for good measure to leave no doubt! 

[papachaz]

On 1/21/2020 at 1:52 PM, Sun Tzu 7 said:

He wasn't calling the defense that gave up 25 unanswered points after all...

no he was too busy calling the offense that couldn't stay on the field long enough to give the defense time to rest, and keep them from playing enough snaps to almost equal another half game...

[Sun Tzu 7]

2 minutes ago, papachaz said:

no he was too busy calling the offense that couldn't stay on the field long enough to give the defense time to rest, and keep them from playing enough snaps to almost equal another half game...

Here we go with the excuses again....

It's not their fault.  They were tired....

They were on the field so much because they couldn't get off the field.  Yes the offense didn't help but at the end of the day the defensive head coach, that was calling the plays,  couldn't get ONE stop.

And this season was basically a continuation of the horrible defensive play from that game.

[papachaz]

11 hours ago, Falcons_Frenzy said:

Yep he's moved on. Now he can think about this loss all the time.

[falconsd56]

8 hours ago, AUTiger7222 said:

 Every year is different and new in it's own regard.

I agree with most everything you said but the bolded part is the most accurate.

 

The NFL is probably the least predictable of all the major sports on a year-to-year basis.

I mean this time last year the niners were coming off a 4-12 season and they had the number 2 pick.

 The fortunes of a superbowl team can change in the blink of an eye....for both the good and the bad.

[papachaz]

1 minute ago, Sun Tzu 7 said:

Here we go with the excuses again....

It's not their fault.  They were tired....

They were on the field so much because they couldn't get off the field.  Yes the offense didn't help but at the end of the day the defensive head coach, that was calling the plays,  couldn't get ONE stop.

And this season was basically a continuation of the horrible defensive play from that game.

blah blah blah you have just as many excuses the other way too apparently. perspective  . I will go ahead and say i was a shanny hater at the time of hire, and through out his time here.  so my blame for him isn't JUST about what happened in that game. As for the defensive coach not being able to get 'ONE' stop, well he wasn't out there missing tackles and not shedding blocks, just like kyle wasn't out there committing holding or missing blocks....

 

Kyle himself came out and admitted that he wasn't always 'situationally' aware and sometimes in games he didn't even know where they were on the field. I never said he wasn't a good coach, I just always hated his egomaniacness....LOL think I just made up a word, but it is what it is, didn't want him here before, and glad he's gone somewhere else to choke on his ego in the big game  

[Sun Tzu 7]

1 minute ago, papachaz said:

blah blah blah you have just as many excuses the other way too apparently. perspective  . I will go ahead and say i was a shanny hater at the time of hire, and through out his time here.  so my blame for him isn't JUST about what happened in that game. As for the defensive coach not being able to get 'ONE' stop, well he wasn't out there missing tackles and not shedding blocks, just like kyle wasn't out there committing holding or missing blocks....

 

Kyle himself came out and admitted that he wasn't always 'situationally' aware and sometimes in games he didn't even know where they were on the field. I never said he wasn't a good coach, I just always hated his egomaniacness....LOL think I just made up a word, but it is what it is, didn't want him here before, and glad he's gone somewhere else to choke on his ego in the big game  

Oh I'm happy that he just lost the way that he did.

However when it comes to 28-3 I place just as much blame on Quinn.

And as far as 'he wasn't out there missing tackles and not shedding blocks...'  If you say that then you also have to apply it to Shanahan.  Did Shanahan give up the sack?  Did he hold?  Was he throwing in-completions?  Not opening running lanes?

If you want to blame the players instead of coaches then sure but you need to blame the players.

Me  I blame Shanahan AND Quinn but I blame Quinn more because he was the guy in charge.  And the disaster that was the defense at the beginning of the year cemented that.

[Wjcorner]

10 hours ago, AUTiger7222 said:

The Falcons will never have another season like 2016 and to expect that to happen again is so unrealistic. Even if Shanny had stayed for 2017 the offense would have regressed simply due to the fact that we're dealing with humans and humans are failable. We had the perfect storm of events happen to allow 2016 to happen. The entire offensive line started every game together and there were very few injuries on that side of the ball. Ryan was darn near perfect, the receivers caught everything, all the blocks were made and the running backs found the holes and did damage. Everything was perfect. That wasn't gonna happen again.

It's why folks think Sark was a terrible OC because the offense regressed even though it was still really good, especially in 2018 when Ryan had 35 TD and only 7 INT and the Falcons averaged 25.9 points per game, which is really freaking good. But because he wasn't Shanny and the offense didn't score a historic 33 points per game he got ran out of town and now we're stuck with Koetter.

Even Shanny in all his years as OC has only had a top 10 scoring offense twice in 12 years. He's ranked 21st or worse 6 times. It's because you can't guarantee success year-to-year. Every year is different and new in it's own regard.

Did you miss the 5 year stretch with Brees and Payton? When the Saints weren’t a top 3 scoring offense like once? 
 

I wasn’t expecting us to break records. I was expecting to have the same offensive philosophy, of attacking the end zone no matter where we were on the field, and I wanted to produce top 3 scoring offense numbers. Your problem, it looks like, is a successful offense is dependent on Ryan’s stats. I don’t view offensive success in the same light.

 

And Shanahan’s personnel has fluctuated so much it’s not fair to ding him for not having a top 10 scoring offense with Brian Hoyer and company. The one time he’s had a high pedigree QB, he broke records...ya have to stop looking at success for anyone in football in a vacuum, completely dismissing everything happening around them.

[Wjcorner]

9 hours ago, kiwifalcon said:

Still trying to move foward.

Feels like us as a team have stood still across the board while everyone else has kept moving.

A shame really as I’m basically at the whatever stage now.I hope Koetters better even though I can’t stand him as a OC.I don’t buy into a leopard changing his spots and I think when it matters if we have to lean on this offense it will come up short.

Many may disagree and I’m not speaking for anyone else but that’s just where my heads at with regards to our offense.

I’d like a team where we didn’t need to lean on our offense...too bad our salary cap pays our offense like they’re the avengers 

[AUTiger7222]

10 hours ago, kiwifalcon said:

I tell you what I do no I bet we don’t regress by 11 points if KS stays that extra year.Thats what happend in 17 under Sark.Not all his fault but the step back from Sark to KS was a gulf a seriously wide gulf.

You're right, it wouldn't have regressed as much as it did but it would have regressed nonetheless.

[AUTiger7222]

10 hours ago, Schwarzwald said:

 

Agreed. The drop off from Kyle to Sark was the primary reason we didn’t get past PHI.

^The defense was much better in the RZ and bent but didn’t break...a nice leap from that unit despite not being elite as a defense...and one that our offense should’ve been able to go further with but alas our RZ offense hindered us.

How in the world can you say that when in 2016 with Kyle the Falcons lost to the Eagles in Philly and scored only 15 points?

[Ergo Proxy]

Just now, AUTiger7222 said:

How in the world can you say that when in 2016 with Kyle the Falcons lost to the Eagles in Philly and scored only 15 points?

Different years and different games. That’s not apples to apples. And, the defense did more than enough. By that logic, we only allowed 15 points and it would’ve been an overtime game?

Kyle’s 2nd crack in Philly > Sark year 1 RZ troubles. How are you even arguing Sark > Kyle? Lol

[AUTiger7222]

45 minutes ago, Wjcorner said:

Did you miss the 5 year stretch with Brees and Payton? When the Saints weren’t a top 3 scoring offense like once? 
 

I wasn’t expecting us to break records. I was expecting to have the same offensive philosophy, of attacking the end zone no matter where we were on the field, and I wanted to produce top 3 scoring offense numbers. Your problem, it looks like, is a successful offense is dependent on Ryan’s stats. I don’t view offensive success in the same light.

 

And Shanahan’s personnel has fluctuated so much it’s not fair to ding him for not having a top 10 scoring offense with Brian Hoyer and company. The one time he’s had a high pedigree QB, he broke records...ya have to stop looking at success for anyone in football in a vacuum, completely dismissing everything happening around them.

Guess you missed the part where I mentioned 25.9 PPG in 2018 but carry on.

As for the Saints deal, no, I didn't miss that, but the Saints weren't a "historically great" offense 5 years in a row. You look at the top 10 scoring years in NFL history and there are no two years listed back-to-back for the same team because that just does not happen.

[AUTiger7222]

5 minutes ago, Schwarzwald said:

Different years and different games. That’s not apples to apples. And, the defense did more than enough. By that logic, we only allowed 15 points and it would’ve been an overtime game?

Kyle’s 2nd crack in Philly > Sark year 1 RZ troubles. How are you even arguing Sark > Kyle? Lol

Where in the world did I say Sark was better than Kyle? I never said that. But Sark was a good OC when he was here, much, much, much better than the **** show we get from Koetter. But because of people like you he was terrible because he's not Shanny. That's the problem I have with this "terrible take" that if Shanny was still here in 2017 the Falcons would have won the Super Bowl. We don't know that. We don't have a clue what would have happened. We never will and people can't let it go and move on and worst of all Dan Quinn and Arthur Blank can't move on because they keep trying to recreate 2016 instead of doing what's in the best interest of the team and players we've got now.

[Wjcorner]

51 minutes ago, AUTiger7222 said:

Guess you missed the part where I mentioned 25.9 PPG in 2018 but carry on.

As for the Saints deal, no, I didn't miss that, but the Saints weren't a "historically great" offense 5 years in a row. You look at the top 10 scoring years in NFL history and there are no two years listed back-to-back for the same team because that just does not happen.

Guess you missed the part where I said I did not want a record breaking offense, I wanted a top 3 scoring offense. When has 25 points gotten you top 3 lol?

Edited February 3, 2020 by Wjcorner

[AUTiger7222]

7 minutes ago, Wjcorner said:

Guess you missed the part where I said I did not want a record breaking offense, I wanted a top 3 scoring offense. When has 25 points gotten you top 3 lol?

So an offense is only good if it can routinely be top 3 scoring offense? Ok then, thanks for playing and having unrealistic expectations.

[Wjcorner]

13 minutes ago, AUTiger7222 said:

So an offense is only good if it can routinely be top 3 scoring offense? Ok then, thanks for playing and having unrealistic expectations.

No, an offense can be good without hitting top 3 routinely. I think I’ve found our disconnect. You’re complacent with having a good offense. I’m not. Our percentage of payroll to our offense almost prevents us from just having a good offense. I want a great offense. The great ones will routinely end up in the top 3. And it’s not unrealistic because I gave you a real life example. ‘Thanks for playing’

Edited February 3, 2020 by Wjcorner