Even Aaron Rodgers can’t win it without a strong supporting cast

[ATLSlobberKnockers 8,216]

5 minutes ago, Francis York Morgan said:

Rodgers has been bad all year and no one will convince me otherwise. This game just made it more obvious.

They could definitely use more receiving threats but he barely broke 4k this year

[Califalcon0013 654]

Could've sworn the other 10 guys in field just watch

[2_legit_2_legit_2_quit 2,055]

Rodgers looked old tonight. Old and tired.

[⚡Slumerican⚡ 5,700]

57 minutes ago, thanat0s said:

As I said earlier, IMO,  it’s time that people face the fact that both Rodgers and Brees have put up epic numbers over the years, but they are not top ten QBs of all time.

Each was on a team that had a perfect offseason once, and got a ring. It’s also been nearly a decade since Rodgers’, and longer for Brees. 

 

Ryan, Rodgers and Brees are all on the decline.. No doubt about it.. They still show signs of greatness, but thier better days are behind them 

[ltstorm2 4,829]

I think Rodgers would have had a lot better game if he wasn't going up against a head coach that knew what they would be seeing from Lafleur's offense. Couple that knowledge with a stout defense and I predicted a 20 point victory. Had Green Bay played any other team in the championship game they would have fared much better. 

[falconsd56 24,937]

1 hour ago, ltstorm2 said:

I think Rodgers would have had a lot better game if he wasn't going up against a head coach that knew what they would be seeing from Lafleur's offense. Couple that knowledge with a stout defense and I predicted a 20 point victory. Had Green Bay played any other team in the championship game they would have fared much better. 

Ehh...Rogers just flat sucked in the first half he made poor decisions and was off on alot of throws.

[FinalScore2.0 1,139]

There are different ways of looking at this.

 

LaFleur's first year as head coach, Rodgers first year in LaFleur's system,

The team finished 13 - 3 and played in the NFC Conference final.

 

Quinn's first year as head coach, Ryan's first year in Shanny's system,

The team finished 8 - 8

[Faithful Falcon 7,833]

6 hours ago, ⚡Slumerican⚡ said:

Packers defense really sucked tonight and the first half play calling for greenbay was horrible.. Didnt have much to do with Rodgers honestly 

Defense didn't really suck. Kyle Shanahan out coached Matt LeFleur. Green Bay has a pretty good Pass Rush. They took it away with running the ball. Aaron Jones has been the man for them this season. Can't run the ball being down. 

[JDaveG 41,584]

If Rodgers was an Atlanta Falcon idiots would be calling to trade him and draft Jalen Hurts. 
 

Fact. 

[marvinthemartian 4,562]

7 hours ago, falconsd56 said:

Ehh...Rogers just flat sucked in the first half he made poor decisions and was off on alot of throws.

But he is ELITE, remember?:). He is SO much better than our QB. Heavy sarcasm. 

[falconsd56 24,937]

8 hours ago, FinalScore2.0 said:

There are different ways of looking at this.

 

LaFleur's first year as head coach, Rodgers first year in LaFleur's system,

The team finished 13 - 3 and played in the NFC Conference final.

 

Quinn's first year as head coach, Ryan's first year in Shanny's system,

The team finished 8 - 8

Lafleur runs a system very similar to McCarthy.

[Ergo Proxy 25,263]

 

[Ergo Proxy 25,263]

3 minutes ago, falconsd56 said:

Lafleur runs a system very similar to McCarthy.

Eh the obvious difference in 2015 Falcons and 2019 Packers is OL and Defense.

[FalconsIn2012 35,231]

31 minutes ago, falconsd56 said:

Lafleur runs a system very similar to McCarthy.

His system actually resembles Koetter more so than Shanny.  Yes, McCarthy runs a WCO.  But unlike the Shanny tree, he does not run the football and never uses PA.  McCarthy gets tunnel vision and force feeds his best player, just like Koetter.  The Shanny system spreads the wealth making the defense defend every level of the field

Lastly, McCarthy’s playbook lacks a diverse route tree in the sense that it  wont often combine route concepts to free up receivers. Instead, McCarthy has a tendency to rely on receivers to work themselves open and, when that didn’t happen, hoping Rodgers could improvise and find an open guy on the move.  Shanny/LaFleur use scheme to make average receivers look like very good ones

[Ergo Proxy 25,263]

14 minutes ago, FalconsIn2012 said:

His system actually resembles Koetter more so than Shanny.  Yes, McCarthy runs a WCO.  But unlike the Shanny tree, he does not run the football and never uses PA.  McCarthy gets tunnel vision and force feeds his best player, just like Koetter.  The Shanny system spreads the wealth making the defense defend every level of the field

And supposedly? Dirk and Mularkey spent hours and hours looking over “the Falcon offense” immediately after being hired and given access to everything Sark had to work with PLUS what Sark put on film.

We saw so much dabbling in every flavor by Dirk but ...was it really a “I give up dabbling” when we’d get behind in games; in part due to offense but IMO 2/3s reason was how BAAAD defense was pre-Bye, and then we saw Dirk go to full vanilla his style because it was his “I know this and I’m comfortable just going 3 wide/11 personnel when behind this much?”

I’m not counting on it being the truth but I have some hope there is SOME truth to this and “maybe”...just “MAYBE” Quinn gets Dirk to get the pass game concepts to marry the run game like even Sark was able to dial up in year 2.

What’s funny is we were still explosive in 2017 but lost RZ offense; see OG drop off (AL and CC >>>> BG and WS)...but Free was hobbled too...Then in 2018 we fix the RZ troubles mostly but the run game completely fell off the tracks... hence 3 starting holes on the OL entering last offseason but we fire Sark for that?

No CC/AL + massively regressed RS on the OL.

No Free.

DColeman 2017 and Ricky AT FB 2018?

Lolo a cap casualty after 2017 and run game blocking TE Paulsen because ?...experience with Kyle?

But okay now we’ll trust Dirk to go back to a horizontal stretch from under C style of gameplan...

Dirk has enough NFL experience I can see it. Quinn has to let the current setup on Defense enable him to REALLY double down on making sure Dirk is gonna fix the run game/PA aspect of this offense.

Otherwise, it’s pure insanity letting Dirk do w/e and us completely abandoning PA and movement presnap; etc...

Edited January 20, 2020 by Schwarzwald

[FalconJim 1,785]

Rodgers has been a great QB, and most likely a 1st ballot HOFer --- but tonight he looked old, and defeated.  No zip to his passes, and his accuracy was atrocious --- unlike the Aaron Rodgers we're used to seeing.  Is he washed up?  Probably not, YET!  But if the Pack doesn't put some people around him, i.e. receivers, O-line, defense, RB (kinda like the Falcons), he could be done --- at least with the Packers!  





 

[ki46dinah 1,946]

13 hours ago, Dirtybird3 said:

But wasn't their defense touted all year long about besides a couple injuries here and there? And Jones had 4tds recently, he has a supporting cast whether they all showed up or not tonight 

Correct. They had a much improved defense, a top tier perimeter WR, a top 5 RB....still laid an egg and were steamrolled

[JDaveG 41,584]

3 minutes ago, Schwarzwald said:

And supposedly? Dirk and Mularkey spent hours and hours looking over “the Falcon offense” immediately after being hired and given access to everything Sark had to work with PLUS what Sark put on film.

We saw so much dabbling in every flavor by Dirk but ...was it really a “I give up dabbling” when we’d get behind in games; in part due to offense but IMO 2/3s reason was how BAAAD defense was pre-Bye, and then we saw Dirk go to full vanilla his style because it was his “I know this and I’m comfortable just going 3 wide/11 personnel when behind this much?”

I’m not counting on it being the truth but I have some hope there is SOME truth to this and “maybe”...just “MAYBE” Quinn gets Dirk to get the pass game concepts like even Sark was able to dial up in year 2.

What’s funny is we were still explosive in 2017 but lost RZ offense; see OG drop off (AL and CC >>>> BG and WS)...but Free was hobbled too...Then in 2018 we fix the RZ troubles mostly but the run game completely fell off the tracks... hence 3 starting holes on the OL entering last offseason but we fire Sark for that?

No CC/AL + massively regressed RS on the OL.

No Free.

DColeman 2017 and Ricky AT FB ??

Lolo a cap casualty after 2017 and run game because ? In 2018?

But okay now we’ll trust Dirk to go back to a horizontal stretch from under C style of gameplan? 

Dirk has enough NFL experience I can see it. Quinn has to let the current setup on Defense enable him to REALLY double down on making sure Dirk is gonna fix the run game/PA aspect of this offense.

Biggest thing I'd like to see Koetter fix are 2 easy fixes, but I worry because Koetter is set in his ways and has been doing things his way for a long time now.  But both are easy to fix because both are simple philosophy changes.

1).  Pass to get a lead, run to win the game.  It really is this simple.  When we get a lead, run the ball.  Run it a lot.  PA off of it, and keep the defense off balance, but make clock movement a principle on offense when we have a lead.  In Koetter's defense, we didn't have a lot of opportunity to play with a lead in the 1st half.  But in the 2nd half of the season, we still didn't run enough when we were up.  I want to see that change.

2).  Use formations and motion to keep the defense guessing.  This is SOOOOO simple I don't know why everyone doesn't do it.  My dad and I were watching the game yesterday between GB and SF, and on like 7 plays in a row, on a drive that ended in a TD, Shanahan called plays that there was just no way to know what was coming.  On the same drive he started in 11 personnel and motioned empty, 5 wide.  He ran a pass play from 13 personnel.  He then spread everything out wide, 4 wide, single back, and ran for a TD.  A long TD.  There were other plays in there, because I was calling them out as they went to the line.  "Okay, 11 personnel, they just motioned the TE out wide, look -- there goes the RB....."  Over and over and over, the defense could not key on formation to tip the play.  It was genius.

Fix those two things and this offense is plenty talented enough to win.  They also happen to be my 2 biggest criticisms of Koetter.  He abandons the run game too quickly, and he always tips run vs. pass by formation, making it easy on the defense and hard on our o-line.

[FinalScore2.0 1,139]

47 minutes ago, falconsd56 said:

Lafleur runs a system very similar to McCarthy.

That's debatable. You need to provide receipts. What I saw was LaFleur wanted to set up plays like Shanny does and that took away Rodger's freedom to improvise as he wanted.

[Ergo Proxy 25,263]

24 minutes ago, JDaveG said:

Biggest thing I'd like to see Koetter fix are 2 easy fixes, but I worry because Koetter is set in his ways and has been doing things his way for a long time now.  But both are easy to fix because both are simple philosophy changes.

1).  Pass to get a lead, run to win the game.  It really is this simple.  When we get a lead, run the ball.  Run it a lot.  PA off of it, and keep the defense off balance, but make clock movement a principle on offense when we have a lead.  In Koetter's defense, we didn't have a lot of opportunity to play with a lead in the 1st half.  But in the 2nd half of the season, we still didn't run enough when we were up.  I want to see that change.

2).  Use formations and motion to keep the defense guessing.  This is SOOOOO simple I don't know why everyone doesn't do it.  My dad and I were watching the game yesterday between GB and SF, and on like 7 plays in a row, on a drive that ended in a TD, Shanahan called plays that there was just no way to know what was coming.  On the same drive he started in 11 personnel and motioned empty, 5 wide.  He ran a pass play from 13 personnel.  He then spread everything out wide, 4 wide, single back, and ran for a TD.  A long TD.  There were other plays in there, because I was calling them out as they went to the line.  "Okay, 11 personnel, they just motioned the TE out wide, look -- there goes the RB....."  Over and over and over, the defense could not key on formation to tip the play.  It was genius.

Fix those two things and this offense is plenty talented enough to win.  They also happen to be my 2 biggest criticisms of Koetter.  He abandons the run game too quickly, and he always tips run vs. pass by formation, making it easy on the defense and hard on our o-line.

Yep.

Koetter tried to “force” an “establish the run” mantra which fails going right at the teeth of a defense if done so predictably. They overplay you because it’s Dr. Seuss.

Shanny was able to pass to open the run here.

Then, Dirk must be totally predictable and he must ignore or not self-scout his own tendencies...analytics would be a tool for him but does it matter if you don’t implement the knowledge to your advantage?

It’s basically film on paper. Kyle tries to play at your weakness by manipulating the chess board to an advantageous or higher percentage result vs static; ala Dirk.

But ya “maybe” it was because our defense was so bad pre-Bye right?

One can only hope we eventually get the results but the “how” is where most of us hang up without pulling out the tree and understanding the root system (the play design and when the calls are made) from the nutritional soil; advantageous use of analytics/support staff to help implement the coaches vision (ability to accurately execute the layers as a unit hence why Sark saw regression here minus the staff Kyle had...he never had a shot)

Edited January 20, 2020 by Schwarzwald

[dirtybirds233 345]

I had the unfortunate pleasure of watching the Packers all year thanks to my other half being a die hard. They reminded me a whole lot of the 2010 Falcons. Not really great in any particular area, few impressive wins, but had things bounce their way more than once and ended up with an impressive record. 

Rodgers has been painfully average the past two years. His 2019 QBR was the lowest of his career (53.5) and he wasn't much better last year (54.4). If you don't like the QBR stat, his passer rating was the 2nd lowest of his career, and the previous two years were the 3rd and 4th lowest. 

[FinalScore2.0 1,139]

It really isn't so simple.

Until Koetter came on board, the running backs were by committee, like it is in SF.

Whoever had the hot hand got the most carries.

Because of Koetter or Quinn that changed this season. Freeman got most of the carries whether he was effective or not. Fans do not know at this point whose decision that was.

So this comes down to philosophy. Of course fans have no say in this matter.

[Spts1 6,584]

13 hours ago, Drvillain said:

My contribution: Ryan is better than Rodgers, and has been for years now 

[Ergo Proxy 25,263]

1 minute ago, FinalScore2.0 said:

It really isn't so simple.

Until Koetter came on board, the running backs were by committee, like it is in SF.

Whoever had the hot hand got the most carries.

Because of Koetter or Quinn that changed this season. Freeman got most of the carries whether he was effective or not. Fans do not know at this point whose decision that was.

So this comes down to philosophy. Of course fans have no say in this matter.

Brian Hill was also hot trash starting for Free when he got hurt.

It wasn’t until Lindstrom came back run game really picked up and the OL improved at pass blocking.

Failed OG signings? Failed run game concepts? Failed game plans during Qs 1&2 most weeks pre-Bye?

It wasn’t just “handing it off to Free too much”...

There is no RBBC if you have to throw it 70% of the time and are behind multiple scores as the normal situation...

What’s sad is our defense weeks 1-8 were THE worst BY far of the DQ era.

People gotta pump brakes on blaming offensive personnel usage when one side of the ball is challenging RECORD PACE with a team like the Dolphins who were gutted by the FO entering the season and knew they didn’t have much to play for.

Coaching indeed but despite Dirk’s failures...our turnaround after the Bye was because of the defense 2/3s of the reason at minimum; and that’s being kind to them.

[Run 'n' Shoot 600]

One ring changes everyone's perception of you. It's been almost a decade since Rodgers and Brees won theirs and Ryan as played as well as, if not better than them every year since but they are considered elite and he's is considered a level below.

It's not fair and unfortunately probably going to be the story of Matt's career. I hope he ends up with all kinds of records just so people will have to realize how good he was anytime they look at QB statistics. Because if the don't win in the next few years, I don't think Matt ever gets a ring.