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what could we get with Austin Hooper's would be money if we let him walk?


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4 hours ago, KRUNKuno said:

It’s not, but okay.  I’m too lazy to pull up the stats again of TEs in 2019.  All their numbers are extremely similar.  TEs can be found anywhere.  It’s becoming a more flexible position that highlights oversized receivers.  Re-signing Hooper would be another Brotherhood move and par for the course of this team, and fan base for that matter, overrating players that are good but not great.

Does Hooper suck?  Not at all.  Is he worth it to keep?  Not really when the payoff could be greater with the recoup of a high compensatory pick and cap relief that can help us in more pressing areas.

I’ve said it many times, people gotta start realizing that Matt Ryan is a multiplier.  

You’re too lazy because they’re not out there. Here they are, hooper missed 3 games and wasn’t 100% for 3 others due to his MCL sprain and was still 5th in league:

https://fantasyfootballers.org/te-tight-end-nfl-stats/

Made it clear, My argument with you and others isn’t whether or not hooper is worth the money it would take to retain him. My argument is the false narrative peddled in here that he can easily be replaced in this offense  “by TE’s with similar numbers”. That’s bull-****, that position will likely take a big hit if he walks.

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1 hour ago, Vandy said:

You’re too lazy because they’re not out there. Here they are, hooper missed 3 games and wasn’t 100% for 3 others due to his MCL sprain and was still 5th in league:

https://fantasyfootballers.org/te-tight-end-nfl-stats/

Made it clear, My argument with you and others isn’t whether or not hooper is worth the money it would take to retain him. My argument is the false narrative peddled in here that he can easily be replaced in this offense  “by TE’s with similar numbers”. That’s bull-****, that position will likely take a big hit if he walks.

That’s debatable.  And again, all those TEs you see on that list aside from Kelce and Kittle are all interchangeable.  If you’re trying to tell me that Matt Ryan couldn’t get those same stats that Hooper has (even with the games missed) out of one of those other guys then you’re kidding yourself.  A good TE is not that hard to come by.  If Hooper was in the same category as Kittle and Kelce then I’d understand.  But he’s not nearly as dynamic as those two.  Nobody is game-planning or double teaming Austin Hooper.  He’s just a guy.

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I'm a hoop fan....its hard tho.... Your QB, WR, LT,and C are near the tops at their position money making wise.

Hoop is important in the scheme but he is the 3rd option in the passing game

Can we afford to pay hoop 11 mil a year

 

 

The OP said who could we get with that monies.... Let's say a Jamie Collins  on D for around 6-8 mil plus the 4th rounder we would get for losing hoop.. But we will most likely have to draft a TE on day 2

 

 

But yea I could see us finding the money to keep him also

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2 hours ago, Vandy said:

You’re too lazy because they’re not out there. Here they are, hooper missed 3 games and wasn’t 100% for 3 others due to his MCL sprain and was still 5th in league:

https://fantasyfootballers.org/te-tight-end-nfl-stats/

Made it clear, My argument with you and others isn’t whether or not hooper is worth the money it would take to retain him. My argument is the false narrative peddled in here that he can easily be replaced in this offense  “by TE’s with similar numbers”. That’s bull-****, that position will likely take a big hit if he walks.

Whether Hooper can be replaced is not the question to ask.  The question to ask is this:   Which is more important to have a good/great TE or a good/great OL?  

If we don't keep Hooper, we may have a shot at an OG like Glascow. 

I would love to keep Hooper, but I would rather take the little cap space we have and finally lock down a good interior OL.  

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On 1/19/2020 at 7:50 AM, Vandy said:

Respectfully disagree. Finding any TE who will turn out as good as hooper ....much less a middle rounder....is highly unlikely.

I agree, but why do we need a TE as good as Hooper? We have massive investment at WR, QB, OT, OG, C, RB...why do we need top contracts and 1st rounders at every position on offense when it's already the highest paid in the NFL and our defense is comparatively languishing? Shouldn't we tailor the offense to our existing and plentiful talent at WR? If not, why are we paying Julio quarterback money? 

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2 hours ago, KRUNKuno said:

That’s debatable.  And again, all those TEs you see on that list aside from Kelce and Kittle are all interchangeable.  If you’re trying to tell me that Matt Ryan couldn’t get those same stats that Hooper has (even with the games missed) out of one of those other guys then you’re kidding yourself.  A good TE is not that hard to come by.  If Hooper was in the same category as Kittle and Kelce then I’d understand.  But he’s not nearly as dynamic as those two.  Nobody is game-planning or double teaming Austin Hooper.  He’s just a guy.

“Just a guy“ who was Pro-Bowl in 2018, and had an even better year this year. 
 

LOL. Yeah, right.....

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2 hours ago, atljbo said:

I'm a hoop fan....its hard tho.... Your QB, WR, LT,and C are near the tops at their position money making wise.

Hoop is important in the scheme but he is the 3rd option in the passing game

Can we afford to pay hoop 11 mil a year

 

 

The OP said who could we get with that monies.... Let's say a Jamie Collins  on D for around 6-8 mil plus the 4th rounder we would get for losing hoop.. But we will most likely have to draft a TE on day 2

 

 

But yea I could see us finding the money to keep him also

My thing is it’s debatable he is the #2 receiving option over Calvin with Dirk here.

Hoop is entering age 25 season. We’d have him for his prime and rest of Matt’s career.

IMO Hooper should be cheaper than the best TEs because his blocking is not good too often. Is that a product of Shanny leaving and would he look better as a blocker in a better scheme? Probably but not elite blocker no. He is elite as a RZ weapon with Matt and his hands/chain moving reliability is elite. His only lack is blocking and elite speed.

IMO he could do far better in a better system but showed he was extremely valuable to our chances in many games this year where no run game and a poor defense set us back.

If Dirk gonna keep stressing defenses vertically as his primary approach it’s easy eating for Hoop. I think he’d be more lethal if Dirk did more horizontal stretching; *COUGH*RPO WIDE ZONE*COUGH*...

Mack won’t be a big figure on the cap as early as 2021...by then we likely have a rookie/FA/draft pick with experience by then slide to C. I think one more year you can make it work; especially with Free/Jamon/Carp contracts in the air to come off by 2021 and we have a more even resource shift to some degree by 2021-2022 when we’ll want great defense and control game offense in Ryan’s later years like Rodgers/Brees/Brady got. Or basically 2016 pass volume but need a consistently efficient ground game and defense.

If Kyle were here and we let Hoop walk? Fine.

Graham could become a good TE1...but with Dirk here is that a risk you take? Makes TE such a need by round 3...

Edited by Schwarzwald
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10 hours ago, etherdome said:

Whether Hooper can be replaced is not the question to ask.  The question to ask is this:   Which is more important to have a good/great TE or a good/great OL?  

If we don't keep Hooper, we may have a shot at an OG like Glascow. 

I would love to keep Hooper, but I would rather take the little cap space we have and finally lock down a good interior OL.  

That’s a mucho better point than the lame attempts of saying he’s a JAG. 

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It’s laughable that people think Hooper is easy to replace. I don’t know if keeping him is the right call but to act like we can find similar production anywhere in the draft is stupid. The biggest reason I want to keep him is his ability in the red zone. He is able to box out defenders and make tough catches in traffic. That skill set is important in the red zone.

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20 hours ago, Francis York Morgan said:

I agree, but why do we need a TE as good as Hooper? We have massive investment at WR, QB, OT, OG, C, RB...why do we need top contracts and 1st rounders at every position on offense when it's already the highest paid in the NFL and our defense is comparatively languishing? Shouldn't we tailor the offense to our existing and plentiful talent at WR? If not, why are we paying Julio quarterback money? 

FYM, I don’t disagree per se. See my post above to etherdome.

And yes, If he demands the kind of money his agent is making noise he’ll be demanding, we’ll have to move on. But that doesn’t change the fact we’ll miss his production, as I doubt Julio and receivers/Graham will be able to pick up all that slack. Fact is, Julio’s production is already starting to decline, albeit slowly.
 

As You and I have discussed, the real room for growth offensively for this team is in the running game, not the passing game. 

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13 hours ago, Rings said:

Top Ten Tight End Cap Hits 2020 in millions

1)  Zach Ertz - 12.5
2) Greg Olsen - 11.7
3) Jimmy Graham - 11.7
4) Travis Kelce - 11.2
5) Jordan Reed - 10.3
6) Kyle Rudoplph - 9.5
7) Jared Cook - 9.0
8) Tyler Higbee - 8.6
9) Trey Burton - 8.6
10) Jack Doyle - 8.5

Franchise Tag Projected @ 10.7

After looking at that list, I take Hoop over all but 3 or 4 of those guys.

This list is the biggest example of why we shouldn't pay out big money for Hoop. The highest paid does not correlate with most productive. Clearly you can draft or find close to if not equivalent production for much less.

I like Hooper. He very productive for us and has worked with Ryan in the off seasons to improve himself, their chemistry and his value to the team. In doing so, he has earned himself a lot of money. I just don't think we should be the team to give it to him. If we were one or two pieces away maybe. But we are not. There are a lot more important and difficult holes to fill before TE becomes a priority.

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1 hour ago, TheFalcoholic said:

TD & Quinn are both in “win or get fired mode”. I can’t see them letting Hoop leave the building. 

But to win now we’d easily promote Graham and draft a round 3 TE project!

Ya honestly it’d have to be a big defensive player move...given that side of the ball has a lot walking. Offensive is fairly set without a lot of cuts...and I’m thinking more likely we see another restructure or two.

IDK who we cut or let walk at this point, but Hooper walking would have to be part of a bigger plan that would still yield net gains for 2020. Hard to see it.

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On 1/18/2020 at 1:01 AM, Falcons Fan MVP said:

Let's say the Falcons do let Austin Hooper walk and rely on our high paid Quarterback, Julio and Ridley to carry the load while hoping Blake , Z and Gage step up. You could make a strong argument that we have enough shiny ornaments at the receiving position and we need to go after the "meat and potatoes" of our roster. Do you think we could get a good free agent pass rusher with Hooper's would be money? Possibly 2 solid defensive pieces? Maybe Alex Mack's free agent long term replacement?(would prefer experience in that position). As much as we'd love to keep Hooper could that money be better spent elsewhere? 

 

It’s nowhere near that simple.   Falcons are having to get creative with cap space just to get a Top 51 contracts under the cap right now - and our Top 5 contracts all have escalating salaries in the future.

Hooper making $10mm/yr only exasperates the issue.

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3 hours ago, Run 'n' Shoot said:

This list is the biggest example of why we shouldn't pay out big money for Hoop. The highest paid does not correlate with most productive. Clearly you can draft or find close to if not equivalent production for much less.

I like Hooper. He very productive for us and has worked with Ryan in the off seasons to improve himself, their chemistry and his value to the team. In doing so, he has earned himself a lot of money. I just don't think we should be the team to give it to him. If we were one or two pieces away maybe. But we are not. There are a lot more important and difficult holes to fill before TE becomes a priority.

^^^This x 1,000

The Falcons just cannot afford Premium Tight End money for a very good player that isn't a true difference maker in the class of Travis Kelce, George Kittle or Zach Ertz.   I know Hoop had some favorable stats this year close to some of those guys but anyone can watch all 4 players and see that Hoop is not in their class.    If Hoop was, I would say "find a way" - but, alas, he is not.

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5 minutes ago, g-dawg said:

^^^This x 1,000

The Falcons just cannot afford Premium Tight End money for a very good player that isn't a true difference maker in the class of Travis Kelce, George Kittle or Zach Ertz.   I know Hoop had some favorable stats this year close to some of those guys but anyone can watch all 4 players and see that Hoop is not in their class.    If Hoop was, I would say "find a way" - but, alas, he is not.

This

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30 minutes ago, g-dawg said:

^^^This x 1,000

The Falcons just cannot afford Premium Tight End money for a very good player that isn't a true difference maker in the class of Travis Kelce, George Kittle or Zach Ertz.   I know Hoop had some favorable stats this year close to some of those guys but anyone can watch all 4 players and see that Hoop is not in their class.    If Hoop was, I would say "find a way" - but, alas, he is not.

 

25 minutes ago, KRUNKuno said:

This

Dirk is good at using tight ends so maybe he can get Jaden Graham balling.

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https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2019/redzone-receiving.htm

Hooper is comparable to Ertz first 4 years and he has the best hands of the 3 he is usually compared against; who are all much older players except for Kittle who is still older and has the benefit of playing for Kyle for more than 1 season as a rookie like Hoop did.

Hooper was factually a better RZ weapon than all 3 of those guy based on their production this year. Maybe Ertz tops him with efficiency inside the 10? But he did better than Kittle and Kelce in the RZ easily.

Hooper is washed over for not being as fast or explosive. Okay...but that doesn't mean he isn't valuable and his production/value in a bottom line points scored league can be glossed over.

Everyone thought Grady would reset the DT market or get close to AD money. He didn't.

So what if Austin gets a contract that averages $10M? That doesn't tell you the contract structure and all PROJECTED annual earnings based on average per year is wildly different contract to contract.

What matters is guaranteed money, years, and any built in outs. What does the 30% rule do to his potential 2020 cap hit?

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