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blkbigdog35

2020 Draft prospects

173 posts in this topic

Doesn’t have rebounding? He’s total rebounding percentage is a full 6 percentage points ahead of Siakam’s and, if he qualified, his career 17 TRB% would rank him in the top 40 of ALL time. **** out of here with that nonsense. Going to games doesn’t entitle you to some special insight into what a player actually does. 

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1 hour ago, red2play said:

Ok, Max Contract depends on yrs played.  In Yrs 0-6 you get 25%:

https://heavy.com/sports/2019/05/nba-supermax-contract-how-much-salary/

Pascal:

https://nba.nbcsports.com/2019/10/19/raptors-pascal-siakam-reportedly-agree-to-four-year-129-9-million-max-contract-extension/

Pascal Siakam reportedly agree to four-year, $129.9 million MAX contract extension.

 

Again, your even comparing him to Siakam and there's no comparison.  Not offensively nor defensively.  Throw out the stats but its ridiculous Collins didn't even make 2nd all-star.  I respect your opinion.  You could be right, Collins could become a premier player but Trae's contract is coming up a yr later and I DO believe that stars will want to come and play with him.  IMHO Collins isn't a star and especially not a superstar.  I think he's a great role player.  I DO believe he could be on a championship team but not as the 3rd best player.

In the draft, we could get Deni Avdija who, again, could be a star.

 

Look at the dunk at 2:15!

All I’m saying is that JC never stated he wanted a max contract he was referencing Siakam’s deal.  He knows he still has work to do to consider a lucrative deal.  

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41 minutes ago, red2play said:

ok, let's do the stats, 15-41 when he's should be the leader of the young team.  Here's another in the last two games he's had a plus minus of a -8 and -32.

Here are his last 10 games:

46    20    2020-01-24    21
47    21    2020-01-26 +15
48    22    2020-01-28 -31
49    23    2020-01-30 +11
50    24    2020-02-01 -10
51    25    2020-02-03    7
52    26    2020-02-05 -3
53    27    2020-02-07 -13
54    28    2020-02-09 +9
55    29    2020-02-10 -32
56    30    2020-02-12 -8

I can post Siakam's but that again, would be pointless.  One's on the first team All-Star team and the other is at home.  Not even on the backup squad and Trae scored FIRST team in his 2nd yr.  Also, on a bad team Lamarcus Alridge can look like an all-star and so could Kevin Love and on and so forth.  I GO TO THE GAMES and I'm sick of seeing him get OWNED and not properly rebound game after game.  Him, Huerter and Jones are liabilities.

 

There's a laundry list of players that people believe they will be all-stars and Pascal Siakam is one of the few who can elevate their game but he was able to play defense and rebound until he could elevate his game.  Draymond Green is the same as well as Anthony Davis and others.  Heck, Jaren Jackson Jr has FAR more potential and he plays defense and gets rebounds.

Again, maybe he does get better but I've NEVER seen a player who doesn't have at least one thing that stands out and you can see several things that the person doesn't have and become great.  Collins doesn't have defense, rebounding nor can he effectively create on his own.  Trae Young can lead, pass, create and has crazy range and he's what the NBA is going towards.  Reddish and Hunter have better defense YEAR ONE than Collins.  

 

On top of that, we can get Deni Avdija in the draft and either him or Hunter can play the 4 and we have Skal Labissiere.

Dude, JC averages 10.2 rebounds a game. That's not rebounding?

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24 minutes ago, ATLBrave said:

Doesn’t have rebounding? He’s total rebounding percentage is a full 6 percentage points ahead of Siakam’s and, if he qualified, his career 17 TRB% would rank him in the top 40 of ALL time. **** out of here with that nonsense. Going to games doesn’t entitle you to some special insight into what a player actually does. 

This clown doesn’t go to games. He’s lying. He already proved that when he said Collins was a SF and shorter than Hunter.

Nearly everything he’s said in this thread has been laughably wrong or just an absurd assertion.  I stopped wasting my time on him.

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On 2/16/2020 at 2:02 PM, FalconsIn2012 said:

I’ve seen it thrown around here quite a bit...Collins even said he has his eyes on 4 years 130 million and is working towards that contract

He wants Siakum’s contract but isn’t near the player on defense...or offense for that matter

That's not what he said at all. 

You are right regarding Siakam defense vs JC, but on offense....please. There's a reason there are comparisons between the two. Add to the fact Siakam had a really nice playoff run which boosted his salary ask.

In a story by Chris Kirschner of The Athletic(subscription required), Collins and Siakam have fairly similar numbers per Synergy, especially on offense. JC was in the 91st percentile in points per possession, and Siakam was in the 90th. When it comes to being the roll man in pick-and-roll, both Collins and Siakam were in the 80th percentile.

Here is a side by side comparison of Siakams numbers last year (contract year) vs JC this year.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.fcgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1_hint=Pascal+Siakam&player_id1_select=Pascal+Siakam&y1=2019&player_id1=siakapa01&idx=players&player_id2_hint=John+Collins&player_id2_select=John+Collins&y2=2020&player_id2=collijo01&idx=players

JC is putting up a cool 20/10 without Pierce calling a single play for him.

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5 hours ago, red2play said:

ok, let's do the stats, 15-41 when he's should be the leader of the young team.  Here's another in the last two games he's had a plus minus of a -8 and -32.

Here are his last 10 games:

46    20    2020-01-24    21
47    21    2020-01-26 +15
48    22    2020-01-28 -31
49    23    2020-01-30 +11
50    24    2020-02-01 -10
51    25    2020-02-03    7
52    26    2020-02-05 -3
53    27    2020-02-07 -13
54    28    2020-02-09 +9
55    29    2020-02-10 -32
56    30    2020-02-12 -8

I can post Siakam's but that again, would be pointless.  One's on the first team All-Star team and the other is at home.  Not even on the backup squad and Trae scored FIRST team in his 2nd yr.  Also, on a bad team Lamarcus Alridge can look like an all-star and so could Kevin Love and on and so forth.  I GO TO THE GAMES and I'm sick of seeing him get OWNED and not properly rebound game after game.  Him, Huerter and Jones are liabilities.

 

There's a laundry list of players that people believe they will be all-stars and Pascal Siakam is one of the few who can elevate their game but he was able to play defense and rebound until he could elevate his game.  Draymond Green is the same as well as Anthony Davis and others.  Heck, Jaren Jackson Jr has FAR more potential and he plays defense and gets rebounds.

Again, maybe he does get better but I've NEVER seen a player who doesn't have at least one thing that stands out and you can see several things that the person doesn't have and become great.  Collins doesn't have defense, rebounding nor can he effectively create on his own.  Trae Young can lead, pass, create and has crazy range and he's what the NBA is going towards.  Reddish and Hunter have better defense YEAR ONE than Collins.  

 

On top of that, we can get Deni Avdija in the draft and either him or Hunter can play the 4 and we have Skal Labissiere.

What fresh **** is this??? There's so much wrong in n this post.

1. ....+/-.  You use the most meaningless stat out there to try and prove a point :lol:

2. JJJr is a 7 footer averaging 4.8 rebounds per game. (4.7 as a rookie)

3. As a rookie, JC averaged 7.9...this year 10.2 Rebounds per game.

4. Hunter at the 4 is road kill. He'll foul out quickly. Hawks are moving forward, they aren't drafting and starting a rookie. Skal might be out for the rest of a season with a knee injury.  Seems to always have an injury so I'm not banking next season on SKal who has only showed enough to be a backup.

It would behoove you to at least look up actual stats if trying to prove a point. They're easy to find.

 

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53 minutes ago, jayu70 said:

4. Hunter at the 4 is road kill. He'll foul out quickly. Hawks are moving forward, they aren't drafting and starting a rookie. Skal might be out for the rest of a season with a knee injury.  Seems to always have an injury so I'm not banking next season on SKal who has only showed enough to be a backup.

So far, this dude has Collins playing the 3, Hunter and Capella playing the 4, Collins shorter than Hunter, Collins not improving at anything since entering the league, Jaren Jackson rebounds the ball, Collins doesn't rebound the ball, Huerter is slow and has no chance to improve, and some Israeli SF should be drafted to replace Collins because he will be a superstar and won't cost us a max deal.

And he knows all this because he has season tickets and goes to the games.

So legit we should all just give up trying.

 

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Deni Avdija, G, Maccabi Tel Aviv, I have been seeing this guy mocked to the Hawks and he has been given Doncic comps but he’s not a good defender.  I know red2play has been hyping this guy up but I think the Hawks have to focus on more defensive capable guys.

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21 hours ago, blkbigdog35 said:

Deni Avdija, G, Maccabi Tel Aviv, I have been seeing this guy mocked to the Hawks and he has been given Doncic comps but he’s not a good defender.  I know red2play has been hyping this guy up but I think the Hawks have to focus on more defensive capable guys.

Edwards, Wiseman but my pick is Toppin.  Provides insurance in the event we can’t sign Collins  

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1 hour ago, FalconsIn2012 said:

Edwards, Wiseman but my pick is Toppin.  Provides insurance in the event we can’t sign Collins  

Obi has been a kid I have noticed of late because Dayton has been rapidly rising.  He’s averaging 19.7 points, 7.8 rebounds and 2.0 assists per game, Toppin has shown impressive efficiency as a scorer in high usage.  His handle is well developed for a player of his size 6’9” 225lbs and getting to the rim really isn’t an issue for him. Over half his attempts come at the rim, per Hoop-Math.  That scoring potential is what has him as a lottery prospect in most circles, along with his shot-blocking at the college level, which is a product of his vertical leap. This is what sparked my interest.  Toppin’s 4.4 percent block rate is pretty good for a player who isn’t a center, and having a player who can score at a high level and has some rim protection value certainly sounds great. Even if that rim protection looks like it will mostly come in help defense, it’s still pretty reasonable to expect Toppin to offer some value!

 

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http://www.nbadraftroom.com/p/obi-toppin.html?m=1

Obi Toppin NBA Draft Scouting Report

 
 

Position

  Height

 Weight

 From

PF  6-9  220  Dayton

  Born

 Wingspan

  Standing Reach

 Vertical

 3/04/98 NA NA  NA

Topping came out of nowhere to have a great first season for Dayton (after a red-shirt year), shooting over 66% from the field and over 52% from 3 point land. At 6-9 he's a versatile player on both ends of the court. He's fundamentally sound, understands spacing and operates well in pick and roll and pick and pop situations.

Toppin is a solid athlete and can play above the rim. He's got a good frame, solid build and appears to have good length. Has the strength to absorb contact and still get his shot off.

3pt shooting is where Toppin really sets himself apart from the pack. He's got a compact and consistent release and he hits his shot at a high clip. He's great in catch and shoot ability and can also find his own shot of the step-back. If he keeps up this hot shooting it'll be hard to pass on him in the lottery. 

On defense he can be a bit heavy footed and doesn't have elite lateral agility or foot-speed. Will be better suited to guarding 4's at the NBA level and might struggle to step out into space and guard on the perimeter.

He's an older prospect, born in 1998.

Comparisons
  • stronger Drew Gooden 
  • Patrick Patterson
  • Andrew Nicholson with better athleticism
Projection: lottery pick in the 2020 NBA Draft 
 
 
 
 
 

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3 hours ago, blkbigdog35 said:

Issac Okoro is a 3 which we are set there.  Not crazy about this mock.  However here is a scouting report link on Issac.

https://www.nbadraft.net/players/isaac-okoro/

Ugh. If Golden State ends up with Wiseman I’m gonna be sick.  That would be crazy once Thompson and Curry are back.

Can you imagine a lineup of Curry, Lee, Thompson, Green, and Wiseman?  That would be hard to beat.  Don’t want to see it.

 

I’m starting to like Paul Reed as a defensive specialist at the 4.

Also, Okoro is a terrible mock selection. Horrible defender and not even a good shooter.   Guy is projected for early-mid teens or later on most big boards.  So this is a dumb mock.

Edited by Beef
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3 hours ago, Beef said:

Ugh. If Golden State ends up with Wiseman I’m gonna be sick.  That would be crazy once Thompson and Curry are back.

Can you imagine a lineup of Curry, Lee, Thompson, Green, and Wiseman?  That would be hard to beat.  Don’t want to see it.

 

I’m starting to like Paul Reed as a defensive specialist at the 4.

Also, Okoro is a terrible mock selection. Horrible defender and not even a good shooter.   Guy is projected for early-mid teens or later on most big boards.  So this is a dumb mock.

Yeah this mock sucks!  I haven’t heard of Paul Reed though?  I will have to research him. Also would definitely hate for GS to draft Wiseman.  However the way things go with the lottery it could be anyone hopefully our Hawks.

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Golden State's done, even with Wiseman.  No Durant and both Curry and Thompson just came off of injury.  It will take another yr minimum for Klay Thompson to recover from his injury.  Also, they are in the west.  I don't believe they will even make the playoff's next yr.

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@BeefI checked out Paul Reed and he is an interesting prospect.

Paul Reed NBA Draft Scouting Report

 
 

Position

  Height

 Weight

 From

PF C  6-9  210  DePaul

  Born

 Wingspan

  Standing Reach

 Vertical

 6/14/99 NA NA  NA

Paul Reed is an intriguing power forward prospect who's got a wiry frame, excellent length and a high skill level. He's not a dominant physical force but he's got an NBA frame along the lines of former lottery pick Earl Clark.

Reed gets off the floor well and is a very good shot blocker who shows quick instincts and good timing. He moves his feet well and can guard in space and has quick hands and a knack for knocking the ball away. 

He shows a lot of promise with his outside shot, hitting over 40% from 3 his sophomore season. His FT shooting suggests that his shooting touch is for real, as he hits close to 80% from the line. He's also comfortable pulling up from mid range or hitting the turn around jumper from the mid post.

He's an efficient score who has good shot selection and doesn't try to do too much. Does a good job of rolling to the rim and can finish with authority.

Reed projects as a first big off the bench NBA player with some starter potential.

Comparisons
  • Darrell Arthur
  • Brice Johnson 
  • Earl Clark
Projection: late first to mid second round pick in the 2020 NBA Draft 
 
 
 
 
 
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3 hours ago, blkbigdog35 said:

 

@BeefI checked out Paul Reed and he is an interesting prospect.

 

While Tyler Bey is the best 1/2/3 defender in this draft, Reed is easily the best 3/4/5 defender.

He has tremendous hand-to-ball accuracy with reaching in, either for blocks or steals.  And he’s also a stellar rebounder.  Combine his rebounds, blocks, and steals, along with his knack for disrupting shots and passes, and his DWS is through the roof.

His downside is that he’s not very athletic on the offensive side of the ball. He’s sorta heavy-footed (slow’ish) and his handles are average.  However, he’s smart with the ball and doesn’t turn it over much in spite of this.  He’s an efficient scorer, although has a very wonky but accurate shot, but certainly isn’t going to wow anyone with superlative athleticism.

I think he’d actually be a great fit for us off the bench if our goal is to continue refining Collins as our go to long term primary 4.

Edited by Beef
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I’d be on board with trading our first round pick this year unless it’s Edwards.  His ceiling is so much higher than anyone else.

But who are we moving off of with a top 5 pick?

Trae

Cam

Hunter

Collins

Capela

 

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17 minutes ago, FalconsIn2012 said:

I’d be on board with trading our first round pick this year unless it’s Edwards.  His ceiling is so much higher than anyone else.

But who are we moving off of with a top 5 pick?

Trae

Cam

Hunter

Collins

Capela

 

Logic says the FO doesn’t want a top-5 pick.  They are clearly wanting to win games. 

If we just win 30-35%, we likely end up picking between 6-10.  Anything more than that and we’re likely 8-12.

Between 6-12 we’re likely looking for a combo 2/3 3-and-D specialist off the bench, or a backup combo-defender at the 4.  But obviously a high caliber starter is no longer a necessity and probably not a goal.

OR, we trade back to get multiple picks and get both of those.

But it’s pretty obvious we’re not gunning for a top-5 pick anymore in a very weak lottery draft board.

Edited by Beef

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7 hours ago, Beef said:

While Tyler Bey is the best 1/2/3 defender in this draft, Reed is easily the best 3/4/5 defender.

He has tremendous hand-to-ball accuracy with reaching in, either for blocks or steals.  And he’s also a stellar rebounder.  Combine his rebounds, blocks, and steals, along with his knack for disrupting shots and passes, and his DWS is through the roof.

His downside is that he’s not very athletic on the offensive side of the ball. He’s sorta heavy-footed (slow’ish) and his handles are average.  However, he’s smart with the ball and doesn’t turn it over much in spite of this.  He’s an efficient scorer, although has a very wonky but accurate shot, but certainly isn’t going to wow anyone with superlative athleticism.

I think he’d actually be a great fit for us off the bench if our goal is to continue refining Collins as our go to long term primary 4.

Agreed and with our core of JC, Trae, Cam, and DeAndre and the addition of Capela then I think you can draft for potential considering your picks are going to provide valuable depth to your bench.

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Trae/Cam/Hunter/Collins/Capella is a pretty solid starting lineup if you ask me... I'm only getting rid of Collins if I think I can lure a Giannis type player here. 

I love Collins though. He's putting up very good numbers in year 3 as a 22 year old. His PER is 22.75 which would be 13th in the league if he were qualified. He hasn't reached his peak yet either so yeah. His defense could get better (I type this right as he blocked Olynk from behind lol...), but I think he can get better. Lots of guys don't peak defensively this early. 

You keep Collins around unless you can get a Giannis type player though. 

As for the draft this year, I'm really liking the Dayton kid more and more. I know we have a log jam at F, but I like that kid

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42 minutes ago, tl;dr said:

Trae/Cam/Hunter/Collins/Capella is a pretty solid starting lineup if you ask me... I'm only getting rid of Collins if I think I can lure a Giannis type player here. 

I love Collins though. He's putting up very good numbers in year 3 as a 22 year old. His PER is 22.75 which would be 13th in the league if he were qualified. He hasn't reached his peak yet either so yeah. His defense could get better (I type this right as he blocked Olynk from behind lol...), but I think he can get better. Lots of guys don't peak defensively this early. 

You keep Collins around unless you can get a Giannis type player though. 

As for the draft this year, I'm really liking the Dayton kid more and more. I know we have a log jam at F, but I like that kid

You keep both and play Collins at the 4 and Giannis at the 3.

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32 minutes ago, No.11 said:

You keep both and play Collins at the 4 and Giannis at the 3.

And Hunter & Cam?

If you land Giannis, move Collins.  Long term I think Cam & Hunter are better players for the Hawks

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1 hour ago, tl;dr said:

Trae/Cam/Hunter/Collins/Capella is a pretty solid starting lineup if you ask me... I'm only getting rid of Collins if I think I can lure a Giannis type player here. 

I love Collins though. He's putting up very good numbers in year 3 as a 22 year old. His PER is 22.75 which would be 13th in the league if he were qualified. He hasn't reached his peak yet either so yeah. His defense could get better (I type this right as he blocked Olynk from behind lol...), but I think he can get better. Lots of guys don't peak defensively this early. 

You keep Collins around unless you can get a Giannis type player though. 

As for the draft this year, I'm really liking the Dayton kid more and more. I know we have a log jam at F, but I like that kid

Toppin is great Collins insurance.  Similar players.  Toppin has better handles and looks stronger.  Not quite as explosive though.  

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