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blkbigdog35

2020 Draft prospects

108 posts in this topic

26 minutes ago, blkbigdog35 said:

What in the He11 happened to my Draft Prospects Thread!!!! 

Don’t know.  But suddenly we had people saying we need to trade Collins because in year 2.5 he apparently hasn’t improved at all at the 3 position.  He’s also apparently 4 inches shorter than we thought.  Someone with season tickets confirmed this with their own eyes.

LMAO

And, our team ginger in year 1.5 apparently has no shot at this NBA thing because he’s “slow”, in spite of consistently running circles around people with surprisingly exceptional handles and quickness.

LOL, whodathunkit?

Apparently second and third year players are supposed to be great at all aspects of the game by middle of their third year or it’s cut bait time because they’ve exhausted their capacity to learn and have obviously hit their ceiling.

I honestly had no clue about this.

Edited by Beef

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13 minutes ago, Beef said:

Don’t know.  But suddenly we had people saying we need to trade Collins because in year 2.5 he apparently hasn’t improved at all at the 3 position.  He’s also apparently 4 inches shorter than we thought.  Someone with season tickets confirmed this with their own eyes.

LMAO

And, our team ginger in year 1.5 apparently has no shot at this NBA thing because he’s “slow”, in spite of consistently running circles around people with surprisingly exceptional handles and quickness.

LOL, whodathunkit?

Apparently second and third year players are supposed to be great at all aspects of the game by middle of their third year or it’s cut bait time because they’ve exhausted their capacity to learn and have obviously hit their ceiling.

I honestly had no clue about this.

:lol: Well damm!!

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2 hours ago, blkbigdog35 said:

What in the He11 happened to my Draft Prospects Thread!!!! 

Sorry ;(  I vote for Wiseman. or trading the pick for better prospects in 2021.  No to Lamelo and Anthony Edwards for me.

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1 hour ago, red2play said:

Sorry ;(  I vote for Wiseman. or trading the pick for better prospects in 2021.  No to Lamelo and Anthony Edwards for me.

Wiseman would be my pick as well.  However I can’t see TS trading the pick.  TS has been excellent at drafting the right players so I’m sure he has some targets.  I think anyone he drafts is going to be someone that can develop and come off the bench.  

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8 hours ago, Beef said:

Don’t know.  But suddenly we had people saying we need to trade Collins because in year 2.5 he apparently hasn’t improved at all at the 3 position.  He’s also apparently 4 inches shorter than we thought.  Someone with season tickets confirmed this with their own eyes.

LMAO

And, our team ginger in year 1.5 apparently has no shot at this NBA thing because he’s “slow”, in spite of consistently running circles around people with surprisingly exceptional handles and quickness.

LOL, whodathunkit?

Apparently second and third year players are supposed to be great at all aspects of the game by middle of their third year or it’s cut bait time because they’ve exhausted their capacity to learn and have obviously hit their ceiling.

I honestly had no clue about this.

He also is a piss poor defender who should not be a max contract player.  
 

Trae, Huerter & Collins should not be starting together.  It’s too many minus defenders on the floor at the same time

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8 hours ago, blkbigdog35 said:

Getting it back on topic!!

2020 NBA Draft Big Board: LaMelo Ball takes top spot in prospect rankings from Georgia's Anthony Edwards

Another terrible defensive player.  Makes sense for us to draft him.   He can’t hit the broad side of the barn from behind 22 feet.  Needs to alter his form a bit.  

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I'll add this, Deni Avdija seems like the real deal and Onyeka Okongwu looks good too.  I wouldn't mind trading down like we did for Trae and then picking one of them up for the 6th pick.  Personally, I think that Deni with a .391 3pt shot and passing is the sure bet. He has better defense than Donic too.

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5 hours ago, FalconsIn2012 said:

Another terrible defensive player.  Makes sense for us to draft him.   He can’t hit the broad side of the barn from behind 22 feet.  Needs to alter his form a bit.  

It’s just a projection. Just sharing want some of these writers think the Hawks will do.   TS has been great drafting guys to fit as you have seen from the past three drafts.  Personally I think they will be looking for a defensive guy.

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On 2/14/2020 at 11:23 PM, FalconsIn2012 said:

He also is a piss poor defender who should not be a max contract player.  
 

Trae, Huerter & Collins should not be starting together.  It’s too many minus defenders on the floor at the same time

Who has ever said Collins is a max contract player?

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29 minutes ago, jayu70 said:

Who has ever said Collins is a max contract player?

I’ve seen it thrown around here quite a bit...Collins even said he has his eyes on 4 years 130 million and is working towards that contract

He wants Siakum’s contract but isn’t near the player on defense...or offense for that matter

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On 2/14/2020 at 10:51 PM, red2play said:

I'll add this, Deni Avdija seems like the real deal and Onyeka Okongwu looks good too.  I wouldn't mind trading down like we did for Trae and then picking one of them up for the 6th pick.  Personally, I think that Deni with a .391 3pt shot and passing is the sure bet. He has better defense than Donic too.

Definitely trade down. Multiple times if you can. Some star will come on the market we deem a solid fit. We will want as much draft capital to apply to that deal as possible to mitigate the young talent needed for the deal. 

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Collins' isn't a max contract player yet, but I also think he can get a max contract. We won't give him a max extension, but if we decide to go "all in" in 2021 FA, he could get offered a max contract as an FA and we would need to match. We can extend him this offseason, but that would kill our chances of signing a 35% max contract player, collins and free agents. We would have to pick two or try and trade Capela/cut dedmon. 

Him as a max contract is an overpay, but it isn't that big of a deal. It is a 25% max and he hasn't plateaued yet. Teams are not going to look at it like wiggin's contract. 

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1 hour ago, GEORGIAfan said:

Collins' isn't a max contract player yet, but I also think he can get a max contract. We won't give him a max extension, but if we decide to go "all in" in 2021 FA, he could get offered a max contract as an FA and we would need to match. We can extend him this offseason, but that would kill our chances of signing a 35% max contract player, collins and free agents. We would have to pick two or try and trade Capela/cut dedmon. 

Him as a max contract is an overpay, but it isn't that big of a deal. It is a 25% max and he hasn't plateaued yet. Teams are not going to look at it like wiggin's contract. 

That would be a massive overpay and lock the club up for a LONG time.  This would also stop us from getting picks that we pick up from Salary dumps.  NO way.  That would screw up our rebuild plus it would be impossible to unload. 10 mil yes, 30+ mil Heck no.  

I'm a show and prove type of person.  Cam Reddish and D. Hunter has shown more potential and better play (at times).  Trae Young, automatic max player - everyone else is a wait and see.  Aminu OWNED him Aaron Gordon OWNED him, etc etc etc.  Didn't we learn our mistakes from Kent Bazemore?

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7 hours ago, FalconsIn2012 said:

I’ve seen it thrown around here quite a bit...Collins even said he has his eyes on 4 years 130 million and is working towards that contract

He wants Siakum’s contract but isn’t near the player on defense...or offense for that matter

I like JCs game and he’s still developing and I’m sure TS is going to be smart with how they pay him.  I haven’t seen it thrown around here.  Per Chris Kirschner, John Collins saw the four-year, $130 million max extension the Toronto Raptors gave Pascal Siakam days ago and his eyes widened.  However this is what John Collins stated in the article, “

That’s definitely motivation for me to keep staying in the gym,” Collins said. “I’ve heard a lot of people compare our games to each other. Our age, athleticism and whatever you want to say about us, I definitely see the comparisons between us. He obviously has the NBA championship and more playoff experience than me, but that is definitely a contract path that I’m trying to work towards.”

When looking at the offensive numbers for Collins and Siakam last year, they are pretty close. Collins ranked in the 91st percentile in points per possession, according to Synergy. Siakam was in the 90th percentile. In the actions in which Collins and Siakam have most of their offensive possessions — Collins as a pick-and-roll man and Siakam in transition — both ranked in the 80th percentile in points per.
 
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1 hour ago, red2play said:

That would be a massive overpay and lock the club up for a LONG time.  This would also stop us from getting picks that we pick up from Salary dumps.  NO way.  That would screw up our rebuild plus it would be impossible to unload. 10 mil yes, 30+ mil Heck no.  

I'm a show and prove type of person.  Cam Reddish and D. Hunter has shown more potential and better play (at times).  Trae Young, automatic max player - everyone else is a wait and see.  Aminu OWNED him Aaron Gordon OWNED him, etc etc etc.  Didn't we learn our mistakes from Kent Bazemore?

You think we are going to get a young player putting up all star like numbers who is 3+ years from his prime and hasn't plateaued yet for 10 mil a year. I want to have whatever you are smoking.

Collins is easily a 20+mil per year type player. He is a top 10 PF and would be an all star with his numbers on a winning team. 

A max is an overpay, but it isn't a massive one and teams would still be happy to trade for him. And he isn't comparable to Bazemore. Bazmore was overpaid and only had 1 year of decent production. 

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1 hour ago, GEORGIAfan said:

Collins is easily a 20+mil per year type player. He is a top 10 PF and would be an all star with his numbers on a winning team. 

I'll just re-post that part and let anyone stew on it.

My top 10 PF's:

1. Antetokounmpo, Giannis

2.  Anthony Davis

3.  Pascal Siakim

4.  Draymond Green

5.  Kristaps Porzingis

6.  Julius Randle

7.  Blake Griffin

8.  Jackson Jr., Jaren

9.  Aminu, Al-Farouq

10.  Aaron Gordon

 

That's just my personal top ten but I'm sure I'm missing many but I could also put these (below) up there too. 

 Sabonis, Jason Tatum also plays PF LOTS but I didn't list him because he's known as a SF, Marcus Morris, Montrezl Harrell 

 

I'm sure many would disagree with a few of those but name the ones on Max contract below the top three (Blake Griffin is an outlier and Detriot's paying for that massive contract)?

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4 minutes ago, red2play said:

I'll just re-post that part and let anyone stew on it.

My top 10 PF's:

1. Antetokounmpo, Giannis

2.  Anthony Davis

3.  Pascal Siakim

4.  Draymond Green

5.  Kristaps Porzingis

6.  Julius Randle

7.  Blake Griffin

8.  Jackson Jr., Jaren

9.  Aminu, Al-Farouq

10.  Aaron Gordon

 

That's just my personal top ten but I'm sure I'm missing many but I could also put these (below) up there too. 

 Sabonis, Jason Tatum also plays PF LOTS but I didn't list him because he's known as a SF, Marcus Morris, Montrezl Harrell 

 

I'm sure many would disagree with a few of those but name the ones on Max contract below the top three (Blake Griffin is an outlier and Detriot's paying for that massive contract)?

Porzingis is on a max. JJJ is on a rookie deal, so of course, he isn't on a max. 

 

Aminu:

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Aaron Gordon:

6kWsDrn.png

 

Collins:

IWVkNkA.png

 

But the main thing you aren't understanding is that most of these guys got an extension. If we sign Collins to an extension it will be below max, BUT if we resign him, it will be based on what other teams offered him which could be a max deal. 

Collins' current cap hold for 2021 FA will be a little over 12 million dollars, which is well south of what he expects and will get on the open market. If we want to go all in and grab a max player(like Giannis) in 2021 and sign free agents on top of that, it makes sense not to extend Collins. 

If we extend Collins, we will get him for a good price, but we won't be able to add many pieces after him. At best we could sign a 30% max player(No Giannis/Kawhi/PG) and then use our MLE for another player, BUT if we wait to sign Collins, we could sign a 35% max player and another player for 10ish million a year then sign Collins and use our MLE. 

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9 hours ago, GEORGIAfan said:

If we extend Collins, we will get him for a good price, but we won't be able to add many pieces after him. At best we could sign a 30% max player(No Giannis/Kawhi/PG) and then use our MLE for another player, BUT if we wait to sign Collins, we could sign a 35% max player and another player for 10ish million a year then sign Collins and use our MLE. 

Half of our strategy has been taking bad contracts off the books of other organizations.  If Collins wants the max, my opinion, it would be time to trade him.  He's NOT a max player by any stretch and paying him MAX contract money on some future promise is bad business.

 

I'd rather trade him and get better and better pieces.  IN my honest opinion, the core should be Reddish, Hunter and especially Trae (of course). Collins has already been in trade rumors already but it was shot down this yr so far. 

 

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2874034-john-collins-trade-rumors-multiple-teams-feeling-out-hawks-price-for-pf

Adding Deni Avdija would be a good piece and possibly adding a star to the team.  Trading Collins and gaining even more picks and versatility for the club. 

 

 

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Collins has stated that he’s working towards a similar extension that Siakum got.  Where is this max contract thing coming from????

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51 minutes ago, blkbigdog35 said:

Collins has stated that he’s working towards a similar extension that Siakum got.  Where is this max contract thing coming from????

Ok, Max Contract depends on yrs played.  In Yrs 0-6 you get 25%:

https://heavy.com/sports/2019/05/nba-supermax-contract-how-much-salary/

Pascal:

https://nba.nbcsports.com/2019/10/19/raptors-pascal-siakam-reportedly-agree-to-four-year-129-9-million-max-contract-extension/

Pascal Siakam reportedly agree to four-year, $129.9 million MAX contract extension.

 

Again, your even comparing him to Siakam and there's no comparison.  Not offensively nor defensively.  Throw out the stats but its ridiculous Collins didn't even make 2nd all-star.  I respect your opinion.  You could be right, Collins could become a premier player but Trae's contract is coming up a yr later and I DO believe that stars will want to come and play with him.  IMHO Collins isn't a star and especially not a superstar.  I think he's a great role player.  I DO believe he could be on a championship team but not as the 3rd best player.

In the draft, we could get Deni Avdija who, again, could be a star.

 

Look at the dunk at 2:15!

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11 minutes ago, TheTrue7 said:

“There’s no comparison, not offensively or defensively” he says

”throw out the stats” he says

:lol:

ok, let's do the stats, 15-41 when he's should be the leader of the young team.  Here's another in the last two games he's had a plus minus of a -8 and -32.

Here are his last 10 games:

46    20    2020-01-24    21
47    21    2020-01-26 +15
48    22    2020-01-28 -31
49    23    2020-01-30 +11
50    24    2020-02-01 -10
51    25    2020-02-03    7
52    26    2020-02-05 -3
53    27    2020-02-07 -13
54    28    2020-02-09 +9
55    29    2020-02-10 -32
56    30    2020-02-12 -8

I can post Siakam's but that again, would be pointless.  One's on the first team All-Star team and the other is at home.  Not even on the backup squad and Trae scored FIRST team in his 2nd yr.  Also, on a bad team Lamarcus Alridge can look like an all-star and so could Kevin Love and on and so forth.  I GO TO THE GAMES and I'm sick of seeing him get OWNED and not properly rebound game after game.  Him, Huerter and Jones are liabilities.

 

There's a laundry list of players that people believe they will be all-stars and Pascal Siakam is one of the few who can elevate their game but he was able to play defense and rebound until he could elevate his game.  Draymond Green is the same as well as Anthony Davis and others.  Heck, Jaren Jackson Jr has FAR more potential and he plays defense and gets rebounds.

Again, maybe he does get better but I've NEVER seen a player who doesn't have at least one thing that stands out and you can see several things that the person doesn't have and become great.  Collins doesn't have defense, rebounding nor can he effectively create on his own.  Trae Young can lead, pass, create and has crazy range and he's what the NBA is going towards.  Reddish and Hunter have better defense YEAR ONE than Collins.  

 

On top of that, we can get Deni Avdija in the draft and either him or Hunter can play the 4 and we have Skal Labissiere.

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