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blkbigdog35

2020 Draft prospects

151 posts in this topic

43 minutes ago, FalconsIn2012 said:

Defense is a skillset.  It’s ore than just effort. You think Cam is our best defender cause he tries harder?  No.  He has great length and short area quickness that make him a great defender.  He also has unique anticipation which accounts for his steals.

Huerter has slow feet and will always be a minus defender.  Trae’s size will always make him a minus defender.  Collins just appears clueless at times on defense.

You sound ridiculous. These guys are 20-23 years old with tons of room to grow and learn.

Huerter doesn’t have slow feet, Thats asinine.  He’s got bad technique and doesn’t put in enough effort.   But he absolutely can be taught how to play better defense.

Cam clearly puts more effort into defense. He’s closer to who he’s guarding, lower, wider base, willing to reach in and has accuracy doing it, shuffles rather than crossing over while keeping hands wide and using his body to push or leverage to cut off angles.

All our guys can do all that. Some just don’t because it’s hard and expends a crap ton of energy.

When I get a chance maybe tomorrow, I’ll find videos and articles from guys like Iguodala, Ariza, Beverley, and Green where they all discuss how they all decided to sacrifice offense to put more effort into defense, and how hustle and effort combined with technique are the keys to defense.

There are dozens and dozens of NBA players who would admit they sucked at defense but were able to learn how to become elite defenders.

Seriously, you’re being absurd with this myopic thinking.  C’mon, man.

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32 minutes ago, Beef said:

You sound ridiculous. These guys are 20-23 years old with tons of room to grow and learn.

Huerter doesn’t have slow feet, Thats asinine.  He’s got bad technique and doesn’t put in enough effort.   But he absolutely can be taught how to play better defense.

Cam clearly puts more effort into defense. He’s closer to who he’s guarding, lower, wider base, willing to reach in and has accuracy doing it, shuffles rather than crossing over while keeping hands wide and using his body to push or leverage to cut off angles.

All our guys can do all that. Some just don’t because it’s hard and expends a crap ton of energy.

When I get a chance maybe tomorrow, I’ll find videos and articles from guys like Iguodala, Ariza, Beverley, and Green where they all discuss how they all decided to sacrifice offense to put more effort into defense, and how hustle and effort combined with technique are the keys to defense.

There are dozens and dozens of NBA players who would admit they sucked at defense but were able to learn how to become elite defenders.

Seriously, you’re being absurd with this myopic thinking.  C’mon, man.

We are allowing 130 ppg over the past 12 games.  They lack the talent and the effort.  We have won no games this year where the offense didn’t score 103 points

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52 minutes ago, FalconsIn2012 said:

We are allowing 130 ppg over the past 12 games.  They lack the talent and the effort.  We have won no games this year where the offense didn’t score 103 points

AGAIN, we have 20-23 year olds who haven’t gelled and have little experience together spending all their time and effort trying to score to compensate for lake of confidence in everything else.

You are jumping the gun and making silly assertions like they are already absolute fact.  Stop it.

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Here’s an article about how Golden State and Klay Thompson were horrible at defense at first.  This guy complains about the Thompson pick...

https://warriorswire.usatoday.com/2019/05/02/how-klay-thompson-became-one-of-the-nbas-best-defenders/

”Who needs defense anyway?

Golden State already has Monta Ellis and Stephen Curry, two pure shooters who don’t play a lick of defense, so the Warriors went out and added Klay Thompson, a guard/forward who shoots and doesn’t factor in on the other end of the floor.

Brilliant.

Either the Warriors are going to shop Ellis hard in the offseason (something the team has denied), or this is a stupid pick, because Golden State eventually has to stop someone to start winning ball games on a consistent basis.”

 

Golden State, of course, would go on to win its first NBA Championship in the Stephen Curry era just three years later (leaving this B/R writer to choke on his words).”

 

3 years it took for Thompson to become a defensive juggernaut after entering the league as nothing more than a shooter and a defensive liability.  And he explains how it just took effort, learning technique, and a mindset to do it.

So dude, you gotta chill with this throwing the baby out with the bath water stuff.

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“Thompson told The New York Times recently that the process of becoming a solid defender began by squatting his way to a more solid lower body. In “Golden State’s Klay Thompson Is a Different Kind of Dangerous,” Thompson recounts the grueling summer of 2012 that followed his rookie season.

“They would kill us,” Thompson said. “It was not fun, man.”

Golden State didn’t make the postseason that year, so Thompson worked with other young players on the team to get better defensively. According to the Times, “the coaching staff would put 60 minutes on the clock and have them defend” — without stopping.”

 

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11 hours ago, FalconsIn2012 said:

Defense is a skillset.  It’s ore than just effort. You think Cam is our best defender cause he tries harder?  No.  He has great length and short area quickness that make him a great defender.  He also has unique anticipation which accounts for his steals.

Huerter has slow feet and will always be a minus defender.  Trae’s size will always make him a minus defender.  Collins just appears clueless at times on defense.

Collins gets bullyballed alot too.  He's a SF/PF tweener without the height nor girth to really play defense.  Hunter is TALLER than Collins, better at defense and a better 3 point shooter.  Your right, we need to trade Collins or move him to the three and beef up his defense.  Trae's lack of defense will get better if we have another playmaker.  He has to back off to ensure he doesn't get fouls.  I believe we should go after Marcus Morris in the off-season.  He shows a lot of hustle and plays GREAT defense as well as hitting tons of 3's.

Looking at Boston last night, you NEED defense and at all positions they have it.  Huerter needs to come off the bench ... Period.  I don't think Capella will be a long term fix as he can't shoot.  I think that we need to have our future like this:

Starters:

Young, Reddish, Hunter, Morris/Aminu (good PF with defense and hit's 3's at a high clip), Wiseman

Backup:

Teague, Huerter, Wing player (might be Brembry, although he sucks),  Fernando, Dedmon.

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6 minutes ago, red2play said:

Collins gets bullyballed alot too.  He's a SF/PF tweener without the height nor girth to really play defense.  Hunter is TALLER than Collins, better at defense and a better 3 point shooter.  Your right, we need to trade Collins or move him to the three and beef up his defense.  Trae's lack of defense will get better if we have another playmaker.  He has to back off to ensure he doesn't get fouls.  I believe we should go after Marcus Morris in the off-season.  He shows a lot of hustle and plays GREAT defense as well as hitting tons of 3's.

Looking at Boston last night, you NEED defense and at all positions they have it.  Huerter needs to come off the bench ... Period.  I don't think Capella will be a long term fix as he can't shoot.  I think that we need to have our future like this:

Starters:

Young, Reddish, Hunter, Morris/Aminu (good PF with defense and hit's 3's at a high clip), Wiseman

Backup:

Teague, Huerter, Wing player (might be Brembry, although he sucks),  Fernando, Dedmon.

Great post.  Only part I disagree with is Capela.  I could care less if he can shoot.  We have enough guys jacking up 3’s on the team.  I’ll take 15 ppg on 60% shooting from my Center

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28 minutes ago, red2play said:

Collins gets bullyballed alot too.  He's a SF/PF tweener without the height nor girth to really play defense.  Hunter is TALLER than Collins, better at defense and a better 3 point shooter.  Your right, we need to trade Collins or move him to the three and beef up his defense.  Trae's lack of defense will get better if we have another playmaker.  He has to back off to ensure he doesn't get fouls.  I believe we should go after Marcus Morris in the off-season.  He shows a lot of hustle and plays GREAT defense as well as hitting tons of 3's.

Looking at Boston last night, you NEED defense and at all positions they have it.  Huerter needs to come off the bench ... Period.  I don't think Capella will be a long term fix as he can't shoot.  I think that we need to have our future like this:

Starters:

Young, Reddish, Hunter, Morris/Aminu (good PF with defense and hit's 3's at a high clip), Wiseman

Backup:

Teague, Huerter, Wing player (might be Brembry, although he sucks),  Fernando, Dedmon.

 

21 minutes ago, FalconsIn2012 said:

Great post.  Only part I disagree with is Capela.  I could care less if he can shoot.  We have enough guys jacking up 3’s on the team.  I’ll take 15 ppg on 60% shooting from my Center

You guys are freaking killin me.

Great post?  The guy just said John Collins is a SF/PF tweener and shorter than Hunter, and you think he is qualified to make a valid point?

LOL

Ya'll just STOP this nonsense already.  Holy he!!.

 

1173433961.jpg.0.jpg&f=1&nofb=1

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5 minutes ago, Beef said:

 

You guys are freaking killin me.

Great post?  The guy just said John Collins is a SF/PF tweener and shorter than Hunter, and you think he is qualified to make a valid point?

LOL

Ya'll just STOP this nonsense already.  Holy he!!.

 

1173433961.jpg.0.jpg&f=1&nofb=1

John Collins is 6’9 235 lbs.  He is a tweener 

SF: Deandre Hunter is 6’7 225 lbs

SG: Cam Reddish is 6’8 220 lbs

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6 minutes ago, FalconsIn2012 said:

John Collins is 6’9 235 lbs.  He is a tweener 

SF: Deandre Hunter is 6’7 225 lbs

SG: Cam Reddish is 6’8 220 lbs

He’s 6’10, clearly taller than Hunter, and yeah, he is a tweener, between the 4 and 5 like ALL our PF’s and C’s are by design.

Again, you just said a guy who claimed Collins was shorter than Hunter made a “great post”.

You’re both clowns and embarrassing yourselves with these latest takes.  I’m just trying to help you but you’re making it impossible and now I’m irritated I tried.

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14 hours ago, FalconsIn2012 said:

Trade Collins and play Capella at PF & Wiseman at Center.  Time to build a stout defense

First, it was play Collins at SF, now it's play Capela at PF....sigh.

Until we fix the basic perimter defense it won't matter.

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3 minutes ago, Beef said:

He’s 6’10, clearly taller than Hunter, and yeah, he is a tweener, between the 4 and 5 like ALL our PF’s and C’s are by design.

Again, you just said a guy who claimed Collins was shorter than Hunter made a “great post”.

You’re both clowns and embarrassing yourselves with these latest takes.  I’m just trying to help you but you’re making it impossible and now I’m irritated I tried.

Blake Griffin & Love are tweeners between PF/C.  Both are 7’0.

Collins at 6’9 is a PF/SF tweener

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14 hours ago, FalconsIn2012 said:

Trade Collins and play Capella at PF & Wiseman at Center.  Time to build a stout defense

First, it was play Collins at SF, now it's play Capela at PF....sigh.

Until we fix the BASIC perimeter defense it won't matter. Every player, take care of your own defensive responsibility first, look for help second.

 

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1 minute ago, jayu70 said:

First, it was play Collins at SF, now it's play Capela at PF....sigh.

Until we fix the basic perimter defense it won't matter.

I’d never play Collins at SF.  And I agree, perimeter defense is atrocious.

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1 minute ago, FalconsIn2012 said:

I’d never play Collins at SF.  And I agree, perimeter defense is atrocious.

That was a previous poster, the point still stands - playing guys out of their natural positions kills their effectiveness.

You accentuate what players do best and have them limit their weaknesses - that's how you develop 22/23 year olds.

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10 minutes ago, FalconsIn2012 said:

Blake Griffin & Love are tweeners between PF/C.  Both are 7’0.

Collins at 6’9 is a PF/SF tweener

It what universe if Blake Griffin and Kevin Love 7'-0"??? Neither one has ever been listed as even being 6'-10"....topped out at 6'-9"

Collins is not a SF tweener.

He's a PF and small ball Center.

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21 minutes ago, FalconsIn2012 said:

Blake Griffin & Love are tweeners between PF/C.  Both are 7’0.

Collins at 6’9 is a PF/SF tweener

LOL, dude.  Like I said, you're embarrassing yourself.

Griffin is 6'9 and Love is 6'8.

SMH

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30 minutes ago, jayu70 said:

It what universe if Blake Griffin and Kevin Love 7'-0"??? Neither one has ever been listed as even being 6'-10"....topped out at 6'-9"

Collins is not a SF tweener.

He's a PF and small ball Center.

I can’t believe I was that off.  I thought both were 6’11

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I guess I was off on Collins being undersized to play PF.  He clearly just plays smaller than he is.  If anyone thinks he plays like a PF on the defensive end they are mistaken.

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56 minutes ago, FalconsIn2012 said:

John Collins is 6’9 235 lbs.  He is a tweener 

SF: Deandre Hunter is 6’7 225 lbs

SG: Cam Reddish is 6’8 220 lbs

I did take the look test from the last game and obviously I'm incorrect about the height but against most PF's he is a liability.  That being said, not strong enough to defend, gets bodied by PF's consistently, doesn't get rebounds or box out consistently,  and doesn't have the motor you would expect for a very athletic guy on both sides of the court.

 

The "they are under 25" doesn't work.  You should see improvements EVERY year and I don't see any significant improvements for Collins and Huerter (Huerter lacks the tools).

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46 minutes ago, jayu70 said:

That was a previous poster, the point still stands - playing guys out of their natural positions kills their effectiveness.

You accentuate what players do best and have them limit their weaknesses - that's how you develop 22/23 year olds.

You should see improvements every yr.  STOP giving them passes.  If you were actually at the games (I have season tickets), you'd see the obvious.  If you play Collins at the 4 then he would need FAR better rebounding, pick and rolls and defense.  When you see a player lacking ALL THREE in his third yr, that's a problem. 

 

I'm not saying that its not correctable but if your doing what you should, then he should be leading the rest of the team showing them how important defense is and being professional.  He should be the leader of the team.  Looking at his lack of defense in his third yr and offensively he can't get his own shot consistently, that's a problem.

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16 minutes ago, red2play said:

I did take the look test from the last game and obviously I'm incorrect about the height but against most PF's he is a liability.  That being said, not strong enough to defend, gets bodied by PF's consistently, doesn't get rebounds or box out consistently,  and doesn't have the motor you would expect for a very athletic guy on both sides of the court.

 

The "they are under 25" doesn't work.  You should see improvements EVERY year and I don't see any significant improvements for Collins and Huerter (Huerter lacks the tools).

Collins has gone from 7.3 rebounds to 10.2, and 0.6 blocks to 1.6, while going from 10.5 ppg to 20.6... while being surrounded by rookies with insane inconsistencies at both ends.

Seriously, what in the blue he!! are you even talking about... "IF" you let Collins play the 4?  That's his position, and he's averaging 10 rebounds, 21 points, and nearly 2 blocks a game there.  All he's done is get better.

This is just mind boggling.

And Klay Thompson came into the league as a minus defender, and Huerter has 3x the handles and agility that Thompson has, and Klay is now known as one of the best defenders in the league at the 2, which didn't even start to happen until his 3rd year.  Acting like Huerter doesn't have tools, when we actually allow him to run the freaking point quite often (for the reason of having great handles and great quickness), is just crazytalk.

It's like you guys just make ish up in your heads and then vomit it out here.  WTF?

Edited by Beef

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2 hours ago, FalconsIn2012 said:

I guess I was off on Collins being undersized to play PF.  He clearly just plays smaller than he is.  If anyone thinks he plays like a PF on the defensive end they are mistaken.

It's not his defense as a PF that's the issue - it's his defense, PERIOD. He's just not very good. He's improving, but it also doesn't help that the ENTIRE team struggles with basic defensive concepts.

John is a reactionary defender, not anticipatory. He gets there by film study and understanding what Pierce is trying to do. But like I said, the entire team is on the defensive struggle bus.

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2 hours ago, red2play said:

You should see improvements every yr.  STOP giving them passes.  If you were actually at the games (I have season tickets), you'd see the obvious.  If you play Collins at the 4 then he would need FAR better rebounding, pick and rolls and defense.  When you see a player lacking ALL THREE in his third yr, that's a problem. 

 

I'm not saying that its not correctable but if your doing what you should, then he should be leading the rest of the team showing them how important defense is and being professional.  He should be the leader of the team.  Looking at his lack of defense in his third yr and offensively he can't get his own shot consistently, that's a problem.

I don't even know how to respond to this nonsense, so I won't even try.

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