Jump to content

The Pocket Passer Is Dying. Long Live the Mobile Quarterback.


Recommended Posts

  • Replies 587
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

I remember hearing about all this with Vick.  Then with Cam.  Then with RGIII.  Then with Kaepernick.  Meanwhile Brady can't make a fist with all those rings.   

For now. Everything is cyclical. Once DCs change philosophies and even players then someone will change QB style again. Just find the best player and things will sort themselves out. 

@mqg96 @Sir Joe™ There are old quarterbacks.  There are mobile quarterbacks. You know what you don’t see?  Old mobile QBs. Those hits add up.  Cam is the latest example, and he was

23 hours ago, FalconJim said:


Didn't think of Tannehill, but really, he's not a Lamar Jackson, Russell Wilson type. 
After seeing all these QBs running for their life, but yet, not making much happen overall, it makes me value a guy even MORE, who can step up in the pocket (if, he has time, unlike Matt Ryan), find his receiver and deliver the ball to him!!!  To me, that's QBing at it's finest! 



 

What happens when there's no time 

Link to post
Share on other sites
58 minutes ago, Precyse said:

What happens when there's no time 


I said, when they have time.  And if there's no time, you scramble....like MR2 has had to do.  Hopefully, he'll have a better O-line next season, though, with a new LG, and most of a season under McGary & Lindstrom's belt!!!

Link to post
Share on other sites

Matt Ryan took as many sacks this year as Kyler Murray and Russel Wilson.  All had 48.

Watson 44.

Mayfield 40.

Allen 38.

Your ignoramus' need to move on from this.  Being mobile = / = less sacks necessarily.  It just means you run around in circles more until they bring you down thus increasing the chance for injury.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, athell said:

Tim Tebow is widely recognized as the greatest collegiate QB ever...how'd that work out for him in the NFL?

You all need to pump the brakes man lol

Tim Tebow did not have good football mechanics and no one thought he would a fantastic NFL QB san's madman Josh Mcdaniels. Burrow is much better in every facet imaginable. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
19 hours ago, athell said:

Matt Ryan took as many sacks this year as Kyler Murray and Russel Wilson.  All had 48.

Watson 44.

Mayfield 40.

Allen 38.

Your ignoramus' need to move on from this.  Being mobile = / = less sacks necessarily.  It just means you run around in circles more until they bring you down thus increasing the chance for injury.

Being more mobile doesn’t mean you take less sacks, or are more injury prone. Sacks is due to a wide variety of factors. And no one can control injury. Russell Wilson hasn’t missed a game in 8 seasons. What being a mobile QB means is being able to escape the pocket consistently and extend the play with your legs.
 

Here are a few fallacies that people keep having;


Conflating rushing yards with mobility.
 

That mobile QBs get injured significantly more than pocket passers. 

The risk for a scrambling quarterback is almost equal to the quarterback who is sacked: once every 91.7 plays for the scrambler, once every 92.5 plays for the guy getting sacked.”

https://uk.sports.yahoo.com/news/injury-proneness-running-qbs-russell-153302034.html

Link to post
Share on other sites
58 minutes ago, Sidecar Falcon said:

Being more mobile doesn’t mean you take less sacks, or are more injury prone. Sacks is due to a wide variety of factors. And no one can control injury. Russell Wilson hasn’t missed a game in 8 seasons. What being a mobile QB means is being able to escape the pocket consistently and extend the play with your legs.
 

Here are a few fallacies that people keep having;


Conflating rushing yards with mobility.
 

That mobile QBs get injured significantly more than pocket passers. 

The risk for a scrambling quarterback is almost equal to the quarterback who is sacked: once every 91.7 plays for the scrambler, once every 92.5 plays for the guy getting sacked.”

https://uk.sports.yahoo.com/news/injury-proneness-running-qbs-russell-153302034.html

I don't think it's conflation to suggest rushing yards are related to mobility.  If "mobility" really just means "pocket presence" we should say that.

Clearly it does not.  Tom Brady has great pocket presence and ability to extend plays, but nobody thinks he's mobile. 

The truth is, too much of this stuff is simply this -- some folks don't like Matt Ryan, so they pretend the NFL has somehow passed him by, when just 3 years ago he was the best QB in the entire NFL.  It hasn't.  He hasn't changed.  The game hasn't changed.  The team around him and the coaching staff has changed dramatically, and for the worse.  No amount of pining for a fancy new QB is likely to change that.

Link to post
Share on other sites
46 minutes ago, JDaveG said:

I don't think it's conflation to suggest rushing yards are related to mobility.  If "mobility" really just means "pocket presence" we should say that.

Clearly it does not.  Tom Brady has great pocket presence and ability to extend plays, but nobody thinks he's mobile. 

The truth is, too much of this stuff is simply this -- some folks don't like Matt Ryan, so they pretend the NFL has somehow passed him by, when just 3 years ago he was the best QB in the entire NFL.  It hasn't.  He hasn't changed.  The game hasn't changed.  The team around him and the coaching staff has changed dramatically, and for the worse.  No amount of pining for a fancy new QB is likely to change that.

I believe pocket presence is an integral part of mobility. As well as several other QB aspects. Pocket presence is the ability to maneuver within traffic when the pocket collapses. However it isn’t the ability to navigate out of the traffic. Good pocket passers can maneuver within traffic really well. They are also more able to stay “in the cut”. With today’s defenses it is becoming increasingly harder to do so.
 

You have DTs (Donald, Cox, Jarrett) that collapse the inner pocket as effectively as edge rushers. Defensive players are evolving exponentially year over year. Because of their increased athletic ability, you need an equally athletic QB to mitigate those physical traits. This is where mobility becomes important as it allows the QB to extend plays to let their teammates to get open. 
 

Pocket Passers will always be apart of the NFL but you’re going to see an influx of more athletic QBs that have increased mobility. You’ll still have the cerebral types of QBs who can dissect a play presnap with success but it’ll be a fewer number. And even they will be mobile. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Sidecar Falcon said:

I believe pocket presence is an integral part of mobility. As well as several other QB aspects. Pocket presence is the ability to maneuver within traffic when the pocket collapses. However it isn’t the ability to navigate out of the traffic. Good pocket passers can maneuver within traffic really well. They are also more able to stay “in the cut”. With today’s defenses it is becoming increasingly harder to do so.
 

You have DTs (Donald, Cox, Jarrett) that collapse the inner pocket as effectively than edge rushers. Defensive players are evolving exponentially year over year. Because of their increased athletic ability, you need an equally athletic QB to mitigate those physical traits. This is where mobility becomes important as it allows the QB to extend plays to let their teammates to get open. 
 

Pocket Passers will always be apart of the NFL but you’re going to see an influx of more athletic QBs that have increased mobility. You’ll still have the cerebral types of QBs who can dissect a play presnap with success but it’ll be a fewer number. And even they will be mobile. 

I guess most of my issue is I don't see Ryan as "immobile" in the sense people seem to be using the term now.  It's not his strongest trait, granted, but it is also pretty far from the most important trait a QB can have. If Rodgers is a "mobile QB," then Ryan is plenty mobile to be effective in the NFL.  He can get yards with his feet when he needs to, and he has.  He can escape the pocket and get the ball out when he needs to, and he has.  He's not Russell Wilson or even Aaron Rodgers, granted.  But my overarching point is that both Wilson and Rodgers are pocket passers.  They are not what anyone prior to basically this thread being started would consider "mobile QBs."  They operate first and foremost from the pocket and they are really, really good at it.  If they couldn't, all the mobility in the world would not correct that.

There are some who are both mobile and pocket passers.  Vick when he was in Philly was.  Newton has been at points in his career.  I think DeSean Watson is.  I think Mahomes is.  And I think it's true that those types of players are going to be considered more and more to be valuable in the NFL.  But if you have to have one or the other, you take the ability to make plays from the pocket first.  Because that's the QB's job.  Mobility, the ability to escape and rush or extend the play with your legs, is a nice attribute to have, but it will never eclipse the ability to read and diagnose defenses and make plays from the pocket.  It will always be secondary.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, JDaveG said:

I guess most of my issue is I don't see Ryan as "immobile" in the sense people seem to be using the term now.  It's not his strongest trait, granted, but it is also pretty far from the most important trait a QB can have. If Rodgers is a "mobile QB," then Ryan is plenty mobile to be effective in the NFL.  He can get yards with his feet when he needs to, and he has.  He can escape the pocket and get the ball out when he needs to, and he has.  He's not Russell Wilson or even Aaron Rodgers, granted.  But my overarching point is that both Wilson and Rodgers are pocket passers.  They are not what anyone prior to basically this thread being started would consider "mobile QBs."  They operate first and foremost from the pocket and they are really, really good at it.  If they couldn't, all the mobility in the world would not correct that.

There are some who are both mobile and pocket passers.  Vick when he was in Philly was.  Newton has been at points in his career.  I think DeSean Watson is.  I think Mahomes is.  And I think it's true that those types of players are going to be considered more and more to be valuable in the NFL.  But if you have to have one or the other, you take the ability to make plays from the pocket first.  Because that's the QB's job.  Mobility, the ability to escape and rush or extend the play with your legs, is a nice attribute to have, but it will never eclipse the ability to read and diagnose defenses and make plays from the pocket.  It will always be secondary.

Unless OL play in the NFL continues to nosedive like a gentleman.  Which is honestly why I think mobility is valued more by some.

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Sidecar Falcon said:

Being more mobile doesn’t mean you take less sacks, or are more injury prone. Sacks is due to a wide variety of factors. And no one can control injury. Russell Wilson hasn’t missed a game in 8 seasons. What being a mobile QB means is being able to escape the pocket consistently and extend the play with your legs.
 

Here are a few fallacies that people keep having;


Conflating rushing yards with mobility.
 

That mobile QBs get injured significantly more than pocket passers. 

The risk for a scrambling quarterback is almost equal to the quarterback who is sacked: once every 91.7 plays for the scrambler, once every 92.5 plays for the guy getting sacked.”

https://uk.sports.yahoo.com/news/injury-proneness-running-qbs-russell-153302034.html

I agree!  I made the point because I think people are getting confused on the subject because some have stated how Matt just lays down and takes sacks.

Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, mfaulk57158 said:

Unless OL play in the NFL continues to nosedive like a gentleman.  Which is honestly why I think mobility is valued more by some.

Maybe, but that stuff is all cyclical.  If teams continue the trend toward more of a run/pass balance, you'll see that tip.  It's easier to get sacks when you're throwing it all the time.  When you have a RB gashing you for 5 a carry, all of a sudden that pass rush loosens up.

I think in 10 years we'll be talking about how the league is going back to passing more again, because I think the clear trend line right now is you pass to get a lead, and run to win the game.  If you look at how Reid and Shanahan and those guys handle the pass game, they will run and screen you to death until your pass rush loosens up.  It's a function of offensive design and playcalling.

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, JDaveG said:

I guess most of my issue is I don't see Ryan as "immobile" in the sense people seem to be using the term now.  It's not his strongest trait, granted, but it is also pretty far from the most important trait a QB can have. If Rodgers is a "mobile QB," then Ryan is plenty mobile to be effective in the NFL.  He can get yards with his feet when he needs to, and he has.  He can escape the pocket and get the ball out when he needs to, and he has.  He's not Russell Wilson or even Aaron Rodgers, granted.  But my overarching point is that both Wilson and Rodgers are pocket passers.  They are not what anyone prior to basically this thread being started would consider "mobile QBs."  They operate first and foremost from the pocket and they are really, really good at it.  If they couldn't, all the mobility in the world would not correct that.

There are some who are both mobile and pocket passers.  Vick when he was in Philly was.  Newton has been at points in his career.  I think DeSean Watson is.  I think Mahomes is.  And I think it's true that those types of players are going to be considered more and more to be valuable in the NFL.  But if you have to have one or the other, you take the ability to make plays from the pocket first.  Because that's the QB's job.  Mobility, the ability to escape and rush or extend the play with your legs, is a nice attribute to have, but it will never eclipse the ability to read and diagnose defenses and make plays from the pocket.  It will always be secondary.

He’s not immobile it’s just the straight drop back scheme we have for the most part which makes him an easy target.

In 2015-16 KS identified pocket movement and Ryan’s movement as a area he can improve in and he did we just haven’t seen it in awhile.

Ryan has the experience and guile to buy time but most who say only concentrate on the stat or aren’t taking into consideration how this scheme operates.Or there comparing him to the the Jackson Mahomes Watson and alike which Ryan will never be.But make no mistake Ryan Brady types are every bit smarter than the mentioned.

Link to post
Share on other sites
23 hours ago, Osiruz said:

Or Burrow who will be much better and just broke the college TD record. 

That's quite a leap.  MR has over 50,000 yards passing.  Burrow has to have A LOT of things go his way to have the career MR has.  You guys act like the MR's of the world grow on trees.  Burrow is a prospect, and prospects are just that...PROSPECTS!

Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...