Vandagriff vs C. Williams vs Stockton

[RandomFan]

Since it's looking like Vandagriff is going to be our QB commit for the 2021 class sometime in the near future, according to several solid sources, I figured it was time to get ahead of the "I'd rather wait on Williams" crowd. Or at least create a thread for that discussion so we don't clutter up the recruiting thread. 

Let's start with saying I think most everyone agrees that Stockton is far and away the best QB prospect of the 3, but he isn't available until the 2022 class. He still has 2 years of high school ball left, but I think the general consensus is as long as he develops as expected he has a chance to be the best QB to come out of the state of GA in a loooong time. Yes, better than Fields or Lawrence or Watson. But the bad news is he's heavily linked to Mike Bobo. Bobo and his family are very, very tight. Americus has been saying recently that he feels fairly strongly that if Bobo is coaching in the south next year, it's going to be extremely difficult to pull Stockton away from him. I think it's likely Boom gets fired from USC next year, so that's a wait and see there to determine where Bobo ends up. And also we all know how strong of a recruiter Kirby is, so we obviously can't count UGA out even with the presence of Bobo in the equation. Just know that UGA isn't in the drivers seat of his recruitment at this time. 

But considering the two QB's for 2021 ,Williams and Vandagriff, there was some interesting stuff on DawgNation yesterday. As I've said before, Justin Robinson's dad posts over there and he had a pretty strong opinion about the two. For clarification, Robinson and his ECLA team played Vandagriff this year and it was a barnburner of a game that ECLA had to score over 60 points in order to pull out the win. Comments from him:

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No tape, seen them both in person and I would take Vandy (Vandagriff) with zero hesitation.  

If you're #1 in the nation it's because you've been on a big stage with big time talent and produced. Vandy has done just that multiple times.

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The one thing I saw that stuck out was although William's is accurate, Vandy is STOOPID accurate and he makes all of throws with ease. William's didn't seem as polished as Vandy. Both are mobile but I've seen Vandy in a score for score, high intensity atmosphere and he didn't blink. He made throw after throw after throw against a defense that had its share of D1 kids on it. He made some really good runs as well. Like I said looking at them in person they both are superb but I've seen Vandy in that fire and after that game Chad Simmons did a video as soon as he pulled into his garage about it. When I get home I will make a Hudl highlight of that game and upload it to this thread and when you're watching it I want you to remember that hes playing one of the best defenses in the state regardless of classification.

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Here's a few clips of Vandy from our game. Notice the arm strength/ velocity, pin point accuracy and his ability to manipulate the pocket when pressured. He's deceptively fast also. There's an assortment of throws..deep post, skinny post, slants, back shoulders, etc...I even put a few perfect throws at the end that weren't caught. This is why if I had a choice between Vandy and William's I'm taking Vandy hands down. This kid is the real deal. Oh, and the throw he made to the kid that was on the ground while ROLLING OUT TO HIS LEFT is my favorite. 

https://www.hudl.com/video/3/6071128/5e115473688ed508b4a35204

This was the second round of the playoffs. It was a helluva sight to see I promise you. The kid makes every throw with ease and he knows when to throw with velo and when to put some touch on it. Hes special. 

Our defense was stout. We completely shut down 2 6A teams, 1 5A team, 1 4A team and a 3A team and they ALL went to the playoffs. Our defense against Vandy was to put up 60+ lol

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My son played baseball with/ against Brock growing up and I'm on record saying he could be a high draft pick. Word is hes strictly football going forward so we'll see. Interesting tidbit...his dad used to travel the country teaching people how to implement the 4-4 defense so I can almost assure you Vandy is well versed on defenses and what to look for and how to recognize disguises.

To contradict that train of thought, SoFL brought this info from his source 

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SoFL_Dawg Posts: 8,539 ✭✭✭✭✭ Graduate  January 5

Yes, but Vandagriff wasn’t our first choice. Williams was/is the guy for 21. Behind the scenes, Coley felt Williams was the best QB he’s ever worked out at UGA.

The feeling now is the first to commit, which likely won’t be Williams. If both wanted in, im sure staff would take both. That is unlikely to happen.

What are everyone's thoughts? 

Edited January 6, 2020 by RandomFan

[Ransack]

So I just watched Williams and Vandagriff's highlight tapes back to back to make sure everything lined up how I remembered it. Bottom line is I don't think you can go wrong with either one. It's kinda like which flavor of ice cream do you like?

Williams tape looks a lot like Fields tape did. Lots of running and some deep/intermediate passes sprinkled in once the defense broke down. Out of the two he's the better athlete with the better arm and the better upside. That said he doesn't read through progressions well and him running the ball is going to be a big part of what he does in a college offense similar to Fields. Will that work for a full season in the SEC? I don't know.

Vandagriff has the Baker Mayfield/Aaron Rodgers vibe. He uses his legs to buy time and make some really unorthodox throws. You can see him going through progressions and he's patient to let routes develop with pressure in his face. He does a lot of his best work throwing timing routes across the middle which brings a smile to my face. Physically he needs to add about 20-25lbs to his frame and he needs to clean up his arm action which is too long right now. He also doesn't have the arm Williams has so I'm not sure what his true ceiling is.

Both can be really successful in college depending on how the offense is setup around them. You can build a dominant run first RPO offense around Williams or you can really run some creative route concepts with explosive playmakers with Vandagriff and watch the points fly.

[PapaJoe]

Well here's hoping we get one of CW or BW soon for 2021, then we will see how the Stockton situation turns out. With Beck in the fold and presumably then adding another top QB prospect in 2021 the outlook for 2022 Class is interesting indeed. 

[Beef]

Everyone should probably expect Stockton to not come to UGA at this point.  Bobo's dad is Stockton's longtime personal QB coach and their families are super tight.  And, even if Boom gets fired, it's unlikely Bobo comes to UGA.  So might as well set aside any discussion about Stockton for the time being.

 

Vandagriff is listed as the #1 pro-style QB, #1 recruit in GA, and #8 overall composite nationally.  He is nearly 6'3, 200, runs a 4.69 40, has a 36" vert, and is deceptively quick.  And, his arm strength is still considered elite, even though the OP correctly states Williams has a better arm.  Williams' arm is simply more elite, which is crazy.

Caleb Williams is listed as the #1 dual-threat QB, #1 recruit in DC, and #15 overall composite nationally.  He is 6'2, 210, runs a 4.57 40, has a 36" vert, and is a full dual-threat RPO ready QB.

The differences are that BV is more polished, technical, and most of all very accurate.  BV is pro-style AND RPO capable also, and uses his legs and feet to give his receivers time to get open, wiggle out of pressure, and can also take off and get good yardage if a play breaks down.  He is going to quickly move through all his progressions and strive harder to complete a pass before tucking the ball and running.

CW is not as polished and not as accurate.  He has a cannon for an arm and can make every throw, however he has a tendency to stare down his primary option and if/when that receiver is not open, he doesn't often make progressions and instead tucks it and runs.  He tends to take a lot of hits and tries to run over defenders.  This could be dangerous in college as everyone is as big or bigger than he is.

Another thing to take into consideration is that CW is already 50/50 between us and LSU and he will likely leave us guessing until the very last moment.  And if we passed on BV to wait for CW, we could be left with neither if he chooses LSU.  BV, on the other hand, de-committed from OU with the explicit reason that he doesn't want to be so far from his family.  And considering his family lives in Bogart, which is literally 10 minutes down the road from Athens, I don't think there's a bigger indication that he's as close to a sure get for UGA as could be.  And, if he does commit early to UGA, it makes recruiting for 2021 that much easier when you have the #1 QB in the nation already committed.

 

Personally, I would take Vandagriff in a heartbeat as soon as possible and be done.  We aren't getting both, and passing on BV just to be strung along by CW and possibly not get either is asinine and would be a monumental blunder.

Plus, I firmly believe Vandagriff will ultimately be the better QB.  The fact he is laser accurate and goes through his progressions before tucking and running... but absolutely can still run and RPO too, means he's easily the more complete package.  If Williams were Lamar Jackson/Michael Vick, I'd probably be leaning his way, but he's not.  Williams is more Deshaun Watson/Dak Prescott, while Vandagriff is more prime Steve Young/Aaron Rodgers.

I just think it's more difficult to defend a more accurate passer who will use all his receiver options before his feet over a less accurate passer who is contemplating running the whole time he's contemplating throwing.  Don't get me wrong, I'd absolutely take either, but I would simply prefer Vandagriff.

[FalconsIn2012]

9 hours ago, RandomFan said:

Since it's looking like Vandagriff is going to be our QB commit for the 2021 class sometime in the near future, according to several solid sources, I figured it was time to get ahead of the "I'd rather wait on Williams" crowd. Or at least create a thread for that discussion so we don't clutter up the recruiting thread. 

Let's start with saying I think most everyone agrees that Stockton is far and away the best QB prospect of the 3, but he isn't available until the 2022 class. He still has 2 years of high school ball left, but I think the general consensus is as long as he develops as expected he has a chance to be the best QB to come out of the state of GA in a loooong time. Yes, better than Fields or Lawrence or Watson. But the bad news is he's heavily linked to Mike Bobo. Bobo and his family are very, very tight. Americus has been saying recently that he feels fairly strongly that if Bobo is coaching in the south next year, it's going to be extremely difficult to pull Stockton away from him. I think it's likely Boom gets fired from USC next year, so that's a wait and see there to determine where Bobo ends up. And also we all know how strong of a recruiter Kirby is, so we obviously can't count UGA out even with the presence of Bobo in the equation. Just know that UGA isn't in the drivers seat of his recruitment at this time. 

But considering the two QB's for 2021 ,Williams and Vandagriff, there was some interesting stuff on DawgNation yesterday. As I've said before, Justin Robinson's dad posts over there and he had a pretty strong opinion about the two. For clarification, Robinson and his ECLA team played Vandagriff this year and it was a barnburner of a game that ECLA had to score over 60 points in order to pull out the win. Comments from him:

To contradict that train of thought, SoFL brought this info from his source 

What are everyone's thoughts? 

Great info, Thx

I swear #1 in that Hudl video is under 5 feet tall...lol.

Regarding Grif: The back shoulder throw on the sideline and the dimes while getting hit are incredibly impressive 

[Dawgfanbrock]

Given our offense bv is the better fit and to me makes more sense- be happy there 

[PapaJoe]

1 hour ago, Beef said:

Everyone should probably expect Stockton to not come to UGA at this point.  Bobo's dad is Stockton's longtime personal QB coach and their families are super tight.  And, even if Boom gets fired, it's unlikely Bobo comes to UGA.  So might as well set aside any discussion about Stockton for the time being.

 

Vandagriff is listed as the #1 pro-style QB, #1 recruit in GA, and #8 overall composite nationally.  He is nearly 6'3, 200, runs a 4.69 40, has a 36" vert, and is deceptively quick.  And, his arm strength is still considered elite, even though the OP correctly states Williams has a better arm.  Williams' arm is simply more elite, which is crazy.

Caleb Williams is listed as the #1 dual-threat QB, #1 recruit in DC, and #15 overall composite nationally.  He is 6'2, 210, runs a 4.57 40, has a 36" vert, and is a full dual-threat RPO ready QB.

The differences are that BV is more polished, technical, and most of all very accurate.  BV is pro-style AND RPO capable also, and uses his legs and feet to give his receivers time to get open, wiggle out of pressure, and can also take off and get good yardage if a play breaks down.  He is going to quickly move through all his progressions and strive harder to complete a pass before tucking the ball and running.

CW is not as polished and not as accurate.  He has a cannon for an arm and can make every throw, however he has a tendency to stare down his primary option and if/when that receiver is not open, he doesn't often make progressions and instead tucks it and runs.  He tends to take a lot of hits and tries to run over defenders.  This could be dangerous in college as everyone is as big or bigger than he is.

Another thing to take into consideration is that CW is already 50/50 between us and LSU and he will likely leave us guessing until the very last moment.  And if we passed on BV to wait for CW, we could be left with neither if he chooses LSU.  BV, on the other hand, de-committed from OU with the explicit reason that he doesn't want to be so far from his family.  And considering his family lives in Bogart, which is literally 10 minutes down the road from Athens, I don't think there's a bigger indication that he's as close to a sure get for UGA as could be.  And, if he does commit early to UGA, it makes recruiting for 2021 that much easier when you have the #1 QB in the nation already committed.

 

Personally, I would take Vandagriff in a heartbeat as soon as possible and be done.  We aren't getting both, and passing on BV just to be strung along by CW and possibly not get either is asinine and would be a monumental blunder.

Plus, I firmly believe Vandagriff will ultimately be the better QB.  The fact he is laser accurate and goes through his progressions before tucking and running... but absolutely can still run and RPO too, means he's easily the more complete package.  If Williams were Lamar Jackson/Michael Vick, I'd probably be leaning his way, but he's not.  Williams is more Deshaun Watson/Dak Prescott, while Vandagriff is more prime Steve Young/Aaron Rodgers.

I just think it's more difficult to defend a more accurate passer who will use all his receiver options before his feet over a less accurate passer who is contemplating running the whole time he's contemplating throwing.  Don't get me wrong, I'd absolutely take either, but I would simply prefer Vandagriff.

Great info. Completely Agree. I'll take Burrow-like QB over a Hurts-like QB every day.

The frustrating part for me with Fromm is I believed he could be a lot more like Burrow was this year...  he just hasn't made that jump. At all.

[LawDawg]

Can't go wrong with either. Whoever commits first, afaic.

 

[Carter]

Can’t go wrong in either case, but one thing for sure is Vandagriff is not only more likely to pick UGA but far more likely to commit soon. Williams is taking his time, which is fine but also lends itself to uncertainty about the position and the possibility we get neither of them if we prioritize Williams. We should take the first one between the two and roll that into building our 2021 class around them. Simple. 

[AutumnEffect]

I don't like going back on our word to Caleb, but the "bird in the hand" principle should be paramount for us here 

[PapaJoe]

1 hour ago, AutumnEffect said:

I don't like going back on our word to Caleb, but the "bird in the hand" principle should be paramount for us here 

It’s not a case of that really. The situation then, if even said that way, is now different than it was then. 

[Prison Mikey]

UGA can't afford to wait on CW and move forward with BV. For those of you wanting Coley gone will have to wait atleast another two season probably considering how important the 2021 QB class is. 

You can always find another dual threat in the same class or develop Mathis.