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DonOfThemBirds

Hawks in talks with Pistons for Drummond

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I posted this over in the Hawks Real GM forum, but I'm 100% on board trading for Drummond as long as it doesn't cost us 1 of our "core 5" or our own first round pick for the following reasons:


Center is our biggest weakness, by far. Trading now for Drummond gives you half a season to see how he fits in with Trae & Co. for little to no risk. If he doesn't fit, don't resign him and we're pretty much in the same position we are now (hopefully only out a couple second rounders or the BKN pick). Look at the FA centers who are available this off season or next and tell me who'd you rather have at Center? MAYBE Adams or all in for Wiseman in the draft?

Drummond is a top 5 Center already - imagine what he could do with Trae in the PnR. I think it's a low risk move to bring him in now so you can see how he fits with what we have. If it's a great fit - perfect, resign him. If it's a bad fit - we're still probably not winning many more games.

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4 hours ago, Shooter Says said:

I posted this over in the Hawks Real GM forum, but I'm 100% on board trading for Drummond as long as it doesn't cost us 1 of our "core 5" or our own first round pick for the following reasons:


Center is our biggest weakness, by far. Trading now for Drummond gives you half a season to see how he fits in with Trae & Co. for little to no risk. If he doesn't fit, don't resign him and we're pretty much in the same position we are now (hopefully only out a couple second rounders or the BKN pick). Look at the FA centers who are available this off season or next and tell me who'd you rather have at Center? MAYBE Adams or all in for Wiseman in the draft?

Drummond is a top 5 Center already - imagine what he could do with Trae in the PnR. I think it's a low risk move to bring him in now so you can see how he fits with what we have. If it's a great fit - perfect, resign him. If it's a bad fit - we're still probably not winning many more games.

Unless he picks up his player option as part of the trade I'd be reluctant to include the Brooklyn pick.

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On 1/4/2020 at 4:35 PM, GEORGIAfan said:

We have discussed much of it, but one topic that hasn't been talked about is how drummond hurts our flexibility in the next two FA periods. 2020 offseason and 2021 offseason are our only chances to make big FA moves with this current core. After that Collins new contract will be on the books and Trae will be getting his max deal. Huerter, Hunter, Reddish will also want their new deals.

I highly doubt once our young core starts making their money we will have the space to sign a big FA. At best we will have our MLE, picks, and Vet Mins to rely on.  

When people support getting drummond, you also need to support him taking 30% of our cap for the next 4-5 years and what that means. He will be opting out and expecting a max. He knows that he is not a modern big and that the league is leaving him behind. 

The 2020 FA market is trash.   We aren’t getting AD to come to ATL

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More from the guy who knows a guy:

 

New Intel: 

Beyond what I wrote above, I got some new info. on Atlanta, Boston, Toronto, San Antonio, Orlando, Cleveland, Detroit, and OKC

Atlanta: Rumors are true, they are looking for a center and backup PG. Also they made an offer for Drummond. I don't have the full terms but I know no young players were in the deal nor any 2020 FRPs. I don't have much detail beyond that. 

The player they wanted in the off-season as a backup PG was T.J. McConnell. 

They aren't just targeting vet centers, they are targeting all centers who start. That includes KAT, etc. I've been told Atlanta has spoke to Chicago about Carter Jr. and Orlando about Bamba. 

Atlanta has also inquired about Embiid availability and Horford's. 

Atlanta has called about Love and Thompson as well as Ibaka and Gasol. 

Basically, Atlanta has talked to everyone about their centers. He said the expectation around the league is that Atlanta will address the position during the draft or free agency. 

Atlanta hasn't made many offers he said and I asked does Goodwin change the views of getting a backup PG, he didn't have an answer for me.

Boston is open to trading their MEM pick and Marcus Smart as well as other assets for a young center with legit potential. They want Carter Jr., Ayton and guys like that. I haven't heard if it's possible from him but he said that's what they want. They want a young center with a lot of potential and talent. 

SA is buying. They want to make the playoffs. The talk about rebuilding I guess has ended again in San Antonio. They are interested in Marcus Morris who already shunned them. 

Orlando is looking for a star. This isn't new, they been looking for a star but they have been aggressive with offers. Likeliness of this happening is nil. Issac is who everyone wants INCLUDING Orlando. 

Cleveland is overvaluing Kevin Love. They want assets for Love and teams around the league want assets for taking him. Love is trying to tank his trade value. CLE might have to sell Love at a lost. Just to note, Atlanta has called about Love this year. 

DET, nothing has change, what I said earlier in this thread is still the case. 

The perception around the league is OKC overvalued their assets far too much. Expect no trades. But you never know, it just takes one team. 

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An NBA executive told The Athletic that he believes a trade for Drummond doesn’t make much sense for the Hawks and smells like panic from the ownership group in an attempt to not finish with the league’s worst record, which is where Atlanta sits right now, and to try to eliminate some of the stink with the way this season has started.

Before the season began, owner Tony Ressler spoke with a few reporters about the state of the franchise and how this past offseason was as peaceful as it could have been because he had learned from some of his previous mistakes while in charge of the team, like bringing in Dwight Howard. But one quote that was telling with the Hawks now involved with Drummond is how fans are inherently impatient while waiting for success.

“I haven’t met a fan who is less patient than me,” Ressler said in October. “Now, I’m also trying to take the advice of people. I do think I understand basketball and understand the NBA, but building a team and trying to build a contender and being patient in the process is not my forte, and I am desperately trying — and I think successfully — listening to others who are better at it than I am.”

A trade for Drummond would be Ressler and the Hawks’ front office exhibiting impatience. If the Hawks really wanted him, they have the cap space to offer him a max contract this summer after Drummond declines his $28.6 million player option for next season, which is expected to happen. In theory, the Hawks present one of the best situations Drummond could find himself in next season because of the money they could offer, and he’d have the ability to thrive in the pick-and-roll with Trae Young, who’s one of the NBA’s best passers. Because of the $70-plus million in cap space the Hawks are projected to have this summer, Drummond even could recommend another free agent he would want to play with to the front office to sweeten the deal.

For the Hawks, it’s not necessarily the best fit to have a starting front court of Drummond and John Collins — two big men whose best skill is throwing down lobs. Collins would be forced to space out more than he does now, which is fine because he has the ability to shoot 3s, but teams aren’t threatened by Collins shooting; they’re threatened when he’s in pick-and-roll running to the rim. Having Drummond limits Collins’ best skill.

There’s no question that Drummond would be a massive talent upgrade over Len, Jones and Fernando and significantly would help the Hawks’ rebounding problems that have plagued them all season. Drummond has won three rebounding titles and currently leads the league with averaging just fewer than 16 rebounds per game. He has two All-Star appearances, has made an All-NBA team and has remained healthy for his entire seven-plus-year career, but the Pistons haven’t had much success even with Drummond posting some of the best numbers for a center. Drummond’s defensive prowess is also wildly overrated by fans. The Pistons have had a bottom-10 defense four times in Drummond’s career and are again in the bottom 10 this season. According to Synergy, Drummond has allowed 0.92 points per possession, ranking him in the 48th percentile. In comparison, Len ranks in the 50th percentile, allowing 0.91 points per possession.

The Hawks have the expiring contracts to offer the Pistons to match Drummond’s salary in a trade. Chandler Parsons’ $25 million salary alone would satisfy the money Atlanta would need to send Detroit in exchange for Drummond’s $27 million salary. Brooklyn’s lottery-protected first-round pick, which Atlanta owns, likely would be the main asset attached to Parsons. The Hawks would have to have some verbal agreement with Drummond and his representation in place that he will re-sign with the team this summer if assets like a first-round pick are going to be traded for a half-season of his services.

In today’s NBA, however, centers who can play on the perimeter on both ends of the floor are much more valuable than those who are old school like Drummond. That’s not to say Drummond isn’t a good player, but giving a maximum contract to a player who doesn’t necessarily fit the trajectory of the way the position is headed may not be the best basketball decision. He isn’t a center you can build your team around like Anthony Davis, Nikola Jokic or Joel Embiid. He’s not even a center a team can rely on to truly be the anchor of a defense.

Hawks ownership, however, finds itself in a situation where the team’s star point guard is clearly ready to be on a roster that should be competing for the playoffs and publicly has expressed frustration with the losses adding up. Trading for Drummond, a friend of Young’s, certainly appeases Atlanta’s young star and shows a commitment to improving the roster, but it might not lead to the success he wants as soon as possible. Drummond’s Pistons have not won a playoff game.

Improving the center position needs to be and is a focus for the front office. Trading for half of a season of Drummond and then likely having to sign him to a maximum contract this summer should not be the decision this franchise should make at this time. Yahoo! Sports’ Vince Goodwill reported that Boston, Dallas and Toronto also are involved in Drummond trade discussions.

While Atlanta was in Boston on Friday, former Celtics player and now current Hawks reserve Evan Turner was asked if he thought Boston needed to improve its center rotation.

“No. **** no. No. For what? Besides, what you have with Enes (Kanter) and (Daniel) Theis and all them, when you break it down, people don’t even use centers anymore,” Turner said. “Isn’t Embiid in Philly, 7(-foot-)5, 400 pounds, shooting 3s from half court? That’s the game, right? So at the end of the day, I don’t think so.”

Turner will be inactive for the foreseeable future for the Hawks, but perhaps his true value for the organization would be relaying this message to the front office.

 

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17 hours ago, jayu70 said:

Unless he picks up his player option as part of the trade I'd be reluctant to include the Brooklyn pick.

Drummond isn't pick it up unless he is guaranteed by ownership to get the max in 2021. He knows that he is currently the belle of the ball in the 2020 offseason. Charlotte has money and has previously tried to trade for him.

16 hours ago, FalconsIn2012 said:

The 2020 FA market is trash.   We aren’t getting AD to come to ATL

Sure, but 2021 isn't and Drummond wants a max contract. He wants a 4-5 year contract making 30% of our salary cap. Giving Drummond a max kills our flexibility. We should only give a FA a max if we believe they can be our number 2. I don't mind giving guys like Strechmark 5, KAT, and Emibiid that kind of money, but Drummond isn't that dude. He is a Rebounding specialist at this point. 

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3 hours ago, GEORGIAfan said:

Drummond isn't pick it up unless he is guaranteed by ownership to get the max in 2021. He knows that he is currently the belle of the ball in the 2020 offseason. Charlotte has money and has previously tried to trade for him.

Sure, but 2021 isn't and Drummond wants a max contract. He wants a 4-5 year contract making 30% of our salary cap. Giving Drummond a max kills our flexibility. We should only give a FA a max if we believe they can be our number 2. I don't mind giving guys like Strechmark 5, KAT, and Emibiid that kind of money, but Drummond isn't that dude. He is a Rebounding specialist at this point. 

He's  not worth the max and I have no interest in paying that.

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18 hours ago, jayu70 said:

He's  not worth the max and I have no interest in paying that.

I'd give that to KAT. Drummond doesn't really fit what we like to do on offense, and I think he'd be a defensive liability if he has to switch.

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Something worth noting on the Hawks and Pistons: several teams in touch with the Hawks recently came away with the impression that the club prioritizes trading for Oklahoma City's Steven Adams over Drummond.

 

 

I'd prefer this trade with Adams.

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30 minutes ago, jayu70 said:

Something worth noting on the Hawks and Pistons: several teams in touch with the Hawks recently came away with the impression that the club prioritizes trading for Oklahoma City's Steven Adams over Drummond.

 

 

I'd prefer this trade with Adams.

Good. I would prefer Adams as well. More years of control. Plus I don’t think any potential deal with him would affect our ability to sign another max player. I think we could still re-sign Adams and another max player in 2 years. Adams won’t command the max. 

Truth of the matter is, Drummond as a rental makes very little sense to us 

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Rumor is that Hawks offered an expiring contract and the OKC 2022 1st (lottery protected then 2 2nds)....Pistons declined. They asked for BKN 1st, Hawks declined. No other team has offered a 1st.
Re-signing Drummond appears to be on the table for Pistons.

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