Jeff Schultz notes - some good stuff in here Part 2

[FentayeJones]

There could be some merit to some of this but I wouldnt take everything Schultz says as the gospel truth. He also seem to always has some kind of axe to grind. 

[SPITFIRE]

2 minutes ago, FentayeJones said:

There may be some merit to some of this but I wouldt take everything Schutz says as the gospel truth - hes been wrong plenty of time in the past. He also seem to always has some kind of axe to grind. 

true. Its one of the few descriptions that make sense. We basically watched a young team get older right before our eyes. 

[kschreck]

I've heard the players not stepping in to leadership roles theme throughout the season. My question is, what are DQ and the other coaches doing to develop leaders. To me player leadership (or lack thereof) is just as much an indictment on DQ as it is any player that hasn't stepped up as a leader.

Leadership qualities can very much be taught. Not all are natural born leaders but leadership can mostly definitely be developed.

[The Don™]

15 minutes ago, FentayeJones said:

There could be some merit to some of this but I wouldt take everything Schutz says as the gospel truth. He also seem to always has some kind of axe to grind. 

He's put out some good pieces on the Athletic since he's been there and has some kind of inside connection it seems like. 

Wish we can say the same about Dled and Vaughn

[k-train]

38 minutes ago, kschreck said:

I've heard the players not stepping in to leadership roles theme throughout the season. My question is, what are DQ and the other coaches doing to develop leaders. To me player leadership (or lack thereof) is just as much an indictment on DQ as it is any player that hasn't stepped up as a leader.

Leadership qualities can very much be taught. Not all are natural born leaders but leadership can mostly definitely be developed.

While some leadership skills might be teachable, I feel like it’s still ultimately up to the players as individuals to take the things they have been shown & actually use that to make an effort to lead/inspire others around them.

That’s the part that can’t be taught IMO... initiative to lead. Some folks have it & some just don’t. Not everyone wants to lead, and many folks are totally content to be part of something & do their role, but don’t necessarily want the extra responsibilities & expectations that come with taking on a leadership role. There’s also plenty of folks who want to be leaders (or at least feel like that’s what they are supposed to say they want) but just are not well suited for it.

So i suppose it’s fair to question what DQ was doing to teach leadership skills & to draw those leadership traits out of guys, but to me it’s always gonna come down to the initiative of the individuals since they are the ones who have to step up into those roles. No matter how much they’ve been taught, they are the ones who have to make the effort to lead.

[papachaz]

2 hours ago, Boise Falcon Fan said:

Seems like a lot of what he said is what has been said on these boards. That article isn't really a revelation.

he probably gets most of his stuff from here, I almost bet he uses pencils though instead of crayons like another local writer (or 2)

 

[thanat0s]

1 hour ago, FalconFanSince1970 said:

There may have been some complacency after the 2012 season but the 2013 cap purge of Grimes, Abe, Mud Duck, Clabo Turner and Vance had a bigger impact. Dimi replaced them with Tru, Osi, King Konz, Puddin, SJax and Travian. That's a recipe for disaster.

This. TD gutted that team to save a buck and wrecked a SB caliber team in the process. Then tossed Smitty under a bus to save himself. He’s the ultimate weasel. 

[gazoo]

Darn It!

I run into Jeff Schultz from time to time and was going to do a mini interview for the message board with him next time I saw him. This was the very info I was going to get from him.

[FalconsIn2012]

1 hour ago, kschreck said:

I've heard the players not stepping in to leadership roles theme throughout the season. My question is, what are DQ and the other coaches doing to develop leaders. To me player leadership (or lack thereof) is just as much an indictment on DQ as it is any player that hasn't stepped up as a leader.

Leadership qualities can very much be taught. Not all are natural born leaders but leadership can mostly definitely be developed.

Embrace The Suck?

[vel]

3 hours ago, The Don™ said:

True that firing all three coordinators would definitely take time to adjust to but he's saying some players or coaches are drinking their own kool aid.

It took a 1-7 record and Quinn firing scare to wake them up and put down the koolaid. Like I said before, there was reported complacency after '12 and '16. Players thinking "we'll be alright next year because we made a championship run" type of thing. It's been a repeat pattern but he thinks they won't be "drunk off their success" going into next season. We'll see.

That's why I hated to hear when the players claimed they were a top ten defense. They were so far from it and the real version has shown up twice in 18-19. Complacency. Reading their own press clippings. Shlt keeping Vic around only made it worse and we all said that when it happened. They heavily rewarded mediocrity. 

[The Don™]

1 hour ago, vel said:

That's why I hated to hear when the players claimed they were a top ten defense. They were so far from it and the real version has shown up twice in 18-19. Complacency. Reading their own press clippings. Shlt keeping Vic around only made it worse and we all said that when it happened. They heavily rewarded mediocrity. 

Yeah in '13, Smitty admitted in his book that he let the locker room get too complacent after their championship run which was one of things that led to his downfall. 

It's so difficult in this league to have success year after year. Makes what the Patriots do truly special. 

[Spts1]

Pretty much everything that the board has been saying...

[Vandy]

3 hours ago, FentayeJones said:

There could be some merit to some of this but I wouldnt take everything Schultz says as the gospel truth. He also seem to always has some kind of axe to grind. 

Always.

[Vandy]

2 hours ago, papachaz said:

he probably gets most of his stuff from here, I almost bet he uses pencils though instead of crayons like another local writer (or 2)

 

[kschreck]

2 hours ago, k-train said:

While some leadership skills might be teachable, I feel like it’s still ultimately up to the players as individuals to take the things they have been shown & actually use that to make an effort to lead/inspire others around them.

That’s the part that can’t be taught IMO... initiative to lead. Some folks have it & some just don’t. Not everyone wants to lead, and many folks are totally content to be part of something & do their role, but don’t necessarily want the extra responsibilities & expectations that come with taking on a leadership role. There’s also plenty of folks who want to be leaders (or at least feel like that’s what they are supposed to say they want) but just are not well suited for it.

So i suppose it’s fair to question what DQ was doing to teach leadership skills & to draw those leadership traits out of guys, but to me it’s always gonna come down to the initiative of the individuals since they are the ones who have to step up into those roles. No matter how much they’ve been taught, they are the ones who have to make the effort to lead.

I agree to an extent but the leadership of the team is on the HC so you either develop leaders with the players you have or you get some new ones in the locker room. 

[TheFatboi]

7 hours ago, KRUNKuno said:

My biggest issue with this whole “continuity” thing is that, just as Shultz infers, if another poor start occurs then blank will more than likely end Quinn’s tenure here.

That is the total opposite of continuity.  Blank kept speaking of “history” showing success the longer you keep a coach around.  But all that alleged continuity that Blank covets will be thrown out the window with another lackluster season.

Makes no sense.

It makes plenty of sense. You have to give it some time. If it’s doesn’t work after given effort you have to cut bate. Like Dallas did with Garrett. He had multiple chances and it never got better. Saints had three 7-9 seasons. Payton was retained and now they’re good again. Steelers only had 3 HC’s my entire life. All won SB’s. All had bad/down seasons but were retained. You HAVE to have continuity. I said weeks ago quinn should come back. 2 bad seasons shouldn’t be a firing. I’ve been preaching the same thing blank said before he said it. Now he said it. You HAVE Yo five things time to be great. The other thing is quinn has to let continuity grow within his coaching staff as well. Replacing coordinators every 2 years Is the same as if you fire a HC after only 2 bad seasons. You gotta let something stay the f*ck in place until it gets right. If it doesn’t get right after 3 bad seasons let it go. 

[Cole World]

6 minutes ago, TheFatboi said:

It makes plenty of sense. You have to give it some time. If it’s doesn’t work after given effort you have to cut bate. Like Dallas did with Garrett. He had multiple chances and it never got better. Saints had three 7-9 seasons. Payton was retained and now they’re good again. Steelers only had 3 HC’s my entire life. All won SB’s. All had bad/down seasons but were retained. You HAVE to have continuity. I said weeks ago quinn should come back. 2 bad seasons shouldn’t be a firing. I’ve been preaching the same thing blank said before he said it. Now he said it. You HAVE Yo five things time to be great. The other thing is quinn has to let continuity grow within his coaching staff as well. Replacing coordinators every 2 years Is the same as if you fire a HC after only 2 bad seasons. You gotta let something stay the f*ck in place until it gets right. If it doesn’t get right after 3 bad seasons let it go. 

I agree with the HC but if the Coordinator is not doing anything to help cut bait. The Saints teams you are referring to did it with Rob Ryan. Dennis Allen has been money ever since.

 

[Emmitt]

7 hours ago, JD dirtybird21 said:

I know that. It just annoys me because Matt, Julio, TD, and Koetter were all here after the 2012 season. The experience right there should bring some discipline to them as well as leadership and accountability on the others. 

I hear what you’re saying brother, but I think Jeff is alluding to the fact that it’s always the same group of guys acting as leaders. Hearing things from Matt and Julio would get stale after a while.

I haven’t seen his name mentioned, but I think the front office and coaching staff expected Debo to step into more of a leadership role than he has. I’m not down on Debo, but I missed seeing some of his fire from previous seasons.

Edited January 1, 2020 by Emmitt

[TheFatboi]

2 minutes ago, Cole World said:

I agree with the HC but if the Coordinator is not doing anything to help cut bait. The Saints teams you are referring to did it with Rob Ryan. Dennis Allen has been money ever since.

 

The coordinators we lost we KS, Sark, Smith, and Manuel. Manuel was promoted from within. That’s the way it’s supposed to be. Instead of promoting LaFleur he went outside to get sark. Year 2 with sark was much better and Matt almost matched his 2016 numbers. Fired him and now DK. Down year for the offense. Morris was a smart promotion from within. Sark did nothing to get fired for real. Year 3 with him probably would’ve been humming. And you can’t switch a coordinator def after 1 year. Manuel didn’t do anything to get fired either. Quinn promoting himself was a good move but it was too overwhelming for him. Ulbrich and Morris did a great job. But they’re also on staff. Nothing had to change. The issue is change. Quinn isn’t gonna bring in an incompetent coach. But the biggest mistake he made was not promoting LaFleur. He was already here. Offense didn’t have to learn a new coordinator wouldn’t have had to learn new players. Plus he knew kyles playbook extensively. That’s what I mean by keep coordinators in place as well. 

[Sun Tzu 7]

15 minutes ago, TheFatboi said:

It makes plenty of sense. You have to give it some time. If it’s doesn’t work after given effort you have to cut bate. Like Dallas did with Garrett. He had multiple chances and it never got better. Saints had three 7-9 seasons. Payton was retained and now they’re good again. Steelers only had 3 HC’s my entire life. All won SB’s. All had bad/down seasons but were retained. You HAVE to have continuity. I said weeks ago quinn should come back. 2 bad seasons shouldn’t be a firing. I’ve been preaching the same thing blank said before he said it. Now he said it. You HAVE Yo five things time to be great. The other thing is quinn has to let continuity grow within his coaching staff as well. Replacing coordinators every 2 years Is the same as if you fire a HC after only 2 bad seasons. You gotta let something stay the f*ck in place until it gets right. If it doesn’t get right after 3 bad seasons let it go. 

Here’s the thing.  When your successful you’re going to be replacing coordinators every couple of years.  Look at the Ravens, Pats and everywhere Andy Reid has been.

If you’re not successful then your still replacing coordinators but it usually happens with the entire staff. 
 

The Wade Phillips, Tom Moores and Jim Jones of the world are a thing of the past.  Nowadays all the good coordinators are looking to get HC jobs do you either hire a failed HC retread or the next young hotshot that will leave in a few years.

The NFL is a results oriented business and no owner is satisfied with average.

[TheFatboi]

1 minute ago, Sun Tzu 7 said:

Here’s the thing.  When your successful you’re going to be replacing coordinators every couple of years.  Look at the Ravens, Pats and everywhere Andy Reid has been.

If you’re not successful then your still replacing coordinators but it usually happens with the entire staff. 
 

The Wade Phillips, Tom Moores and Jim Jones of the world are a thing of the past.  Nowadays all the good coordinators are looking to get HC jobs do you either hire a failed HC retread or the next young hotshot that will leave in a few years.

The NFL is a results oriented business and no owner is satisfied with average.

The great teams hire from within. The pats haven’t had to go outside for a coordinator since BB has been there. It’s ok to lose a coordinator to a HC job. Bit when you have a LaFleur on your staff you keep him and promote him. THAT is the difference. I don’t know why I have to keep repeating this concept. It’s very simple. That’s why the good teams stay good for long stretches and the bad teams stay bad. In other words hire a smart staff and have replacements already in place. Also block your coaches from leaving unless it’s for a HC job. The only thing you can’t block. BB does it all the time. Elway blocked kubiak in 2017. You’re absolutely gonna lose coordinators. But you better have his replacement somewhere close by. 

[Realsurfin]

What all that says is AB has been shown a snow job.  Same Falcons.  Too many chief's and not enough indians.  So basically that is a setup for another disaster yeah.  Ohhhhhhh AB is not going to put up with poor performance.  We wake up AB your doing just that.  So what?  How many games does coaching staff get next year?  Or do we just lose another season?  

GIVE ME A BREAK!  WHO IS KIDDING WHO.  WE STRUGGLED THAT LAST GAME.  MATT WAS SWARMED. Or was that just a bunch of group hugs with the Bucs. 

[falconfanEST1989]

Sometimes having too many chiefs is not a good thing...  you need the Indians to be there too..  they said 4 guys were always stepping up as leaders in the locker room, and I'm cool with that....  ALL the coaches need to act like leaders In the locker room....    its disturbing that Dimitroff said they got lazy after the 12 season,,    that horse SHlT.  That's not the type of person I want running an organization 

[Cole World]

2 minutes ago, TheFatboi said:

The coordinators we lost we KS, Sark, Smith, and Manuel. Manuel was promoted from within. That’s the way it’s supposed to be. Instead of promoting LaFleur he went outside to get sark. Year 2 with sark was much better and Matt almost matched his 2016 numbers. Fired him and now DK. Down year for the offense. Morris was a smart promotion from within. Sark did nothing to get fired for real. Year 3 with him probably would’ve been humming. And you can’t switch a coordinator def after 1 year. Manuel didn’t do anything to get fired either. Quinn promoting himself was a good move but it was too overwhelming for him. Ulbrich and Morris did a great job. But they’re also on staff. Nothing had to change. The issue is change. Quinn isn’t gonna bring in an incompetent coach. But the biggest mistake he made was not promoting LaFleur. He was already here. Offense didn’t have to learn a new coordinator wouldn’t have had to learn new players. Plus he knew kyles playbook extensively. That’s what I mean by keep coordinators in place as well. 

100 percent agree they should’ve kept Sark. Especially if they were going to focus on the O line like they did last offseason. 

I noticed once Quinn gave up the play calling duties the silly penalties decreased. That’s one thing I give Quinn credit for. 

[TheFatboi]

I’m litterally at Dwayne Bowe’s house as we type. I asked him this question earlier today. He said he had 6 coordinators in 8 years and it was all bad. He said that constant switching had players not motivated and the new coordinators always come with their brilliant ideas that didn’t work. Plus all the unlearn and re learn. And you all know how bad KC was before Andy Reid came in. This ain’t my opinion. That is players saying the same thing I’ve been saying. Jocoby ford and AB have been over to the house as well. The  fans concept of nfl football is from a fans perspective. The players conversation is very different. Been telling you guys this since Asante was in Atl. I get the tea!!