Jump to content

[CONFIRMED] Quinn and TD staying for 2020


Since1990
 Share

Recommended Posts

3 hours ago, TheFatboi said:

I do. Because the offense was not the problem this year. And by now we should all know Matt usually has a down year for him in the first year with a new OC. So changing to another one would be another slow year of learning. The defense was giving up 30 ppg in the first half of the season. An nfl offense shouldn’t have to score 31 ppg to win games. Since the bye the defense is giving up 18 ppg. That means an offense averaging 25 ppg is playoff ready. 

And, that isn’t just Matt that’s a team issue. Only Julio and Matt had prior experience with Dirk. We changed 3 starters on the OL; and took until how long to get a stable starting lineup (albeit due to injury?)

I don’t think the plan was to ever start both FA OGs, but at least we know what we have now. I believe in Gono converting to LG and planning on options regarding Mack. Offense will be mostly in place with the players themselves; other than questions on Free and Hoop.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, TheFatboi said:

The problem with that is you’d have to expect another year of weird offensive play because it’s yet another learning curve to endure. And THATS why were in the situation we’re in now. 3 OC’s and and 4 DC’s in 5 seasons. I guarantee you’d be mad one more season if he moves from DK. Let something stay in place for a while. If we want to win anything. 

I'd rather burn a year and get a better long-term solution in place. Koetter is too stubborn and too vanilla. Just my .02; theoretically if we changed OC's and could be average and things start clicking halfway through the season, we could make the playoffs and have a better offensive future. 

I guess it doesn't matter, it is what it is, I get the consistency thing, but consistent garbo isn't a good thing.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Schwarzwald said:

And, that isn’t just Matt that’s a team issue. Only Julio and Matt had prior experience with Dirk. We changed 3 starters on the OL; and took until how long to get a stable starting lineup (albeit due to injury?)

I don’t think the plan was to ever start both FA OGs, but at least we know what we have now. I believe in Gono converting to LG and planning on options regarding Mack. Offense will be mostly in place with the players themselves; other than questions on Free and Hoop.

Next men up are Ito and Graham. With no cap space. Yikes.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Pacific_Falcon said:

I'd rather burn a year and get a better long-term solution in place. Koetter is too stubborn and too vanilla. Just my .02; theoretically if we changed OC's and could be average and things start clicking halfway through the season, we could make the playoffs and have a better offensive future. 

I guess it doesn't matter, it is what it is, I get the consistency thing, but consistent garbo isn't a good thing.

There's no guarantee that it would be long term.

If we hired someone and the offense took off....they would get poached for a head coaching gig

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Falcons are 5-2 in their last 7 games. Offense is averaging 26.9 PPG. Defense is giving up only 18.1 PPG. What exactly is wrong with thinking that the Falcons are capable of carrying this type of success over into 2020? That doesn't ignore that the Falcons were 1-7 to start the season, it just recognizes that the issues that led to 1-7 were fixed and that's why they're 5-2 since. That isn't "accepting medocrity" or whatever else you want to call it. It's recognizing that maybe, just maybe the coaching staff was able to change the tune of the season and that there's hope that they can carry over that success to 2020.

You look at the coaching candidates and they're not great. Why hire a less than impressive coach just for sake of making a change? Successful NFL franchises don't panic and make changes just to "satisfy" the fans. That's the wrong way to operate a successful sports franchise. The Browns and Jets are perennial bottom feeders because they're always blowing things up every few years. They don't give the people in charge a chance to work through things and get better. This is the NFL, there will be some down years from time-to-time. @TheFatboi mentioned the Steelers having only 3 coaches in his lifetime, we're talking about 50 years of having only 3 head coaches. They're only one of the top 3 most successful NFL franchises of all-time for a reason. It's because they don't panic when they have a down year or two. They gave Bill Cowher 14 years before he finally won the Super Bowl and then they won it twice in the span of 4 years with the team he built.

Arthur Blank isn't stupid. He's done his homework here and he's aware that sometimes the best change you can make is the one you don't make and that is where the Falcons are right now. Making a change right now isn't the right time. Look at who's available and tell me that you know for sure that they're guaranteed to win more games in 2020 than the Falcons are with the current setup. You can't, and that's the issue.

One last thing I want to point out, for you old timers calling for Dan Quinn's head, be careful what you wish, because who's to say that this isn't another Leeman Bennett situation. Bennett was fired because "he peaked" and was never gonna win the big one and yet that turned out to be the worst thing that happened to the Falcons. It took nearly 10 years after Bennett was fired before the Falcons even sniffed another playoff appearance. This is Blank making sure that history doesn't repeat its self and I'm thanking he's not making the same mistake The Smith's did.

Edited by AUTiger7222
Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 hours ago, TheFatboi said:

And that’s exactly why the browns and jets STAY at the bottom. To many coaching changes too frequent. Sean Payton had three  7-9 seasons back to back to back. Had he gotten fired they’re probably 5-11-7-9 right now. The Steelers have only had 3 HC’s in my entire life. And all of them won SB’s. But they had to endure the bad seasons with the good for that to happen. We will NEVER win anything if we don’t let something sustain for a minute. We were just in the playoffs 2 seasons ago AFTER a SB appearance. And probably didn’t beat Philly because of the OC change. Can’t keep changing and changing. Not if you want to be great. The problem is fans and owners get restless. Quinn is a good coach. He just needs to stay with the same OC and DC for more than 2 years. He could’ve promoted LaFleur to OC. Had he done that we win the SB in 17. Keep DK now. Don’t change him. If they do that’s another year of learning curve. Promote Morris to DC and keep it popping. 

So after four years nothing positive to say about Quinn or his coaching abilities? Arthur is scared of another divorce, that's all this is, he'd rather stay in a known bad relationship that reach for the unknown at this point in his life, hence the McKay reacharound.

You got the next Marvin Lewis, a guy who fires himself and things get better, but shouldn't get fired by Blank, interesting.

An older and more expensive Ryan and Jones with a schizophrenic fifth year coach and sundowning owner.

Mora ("..was seen smelling ammonia capsules on the sidelines during a Monday Night Football broadcast"), Petrino (I left to coach the RAZORBACKS), Smith (no one else would ever consider me for their HC), and sub .500 since the SB Quinn. When can ownership get questioned?

If I was selfish I'd be lauding the move as the guy has one win against my team in 4 tries, bur I just don't see success based on the track record. Its only the statitistical outliers that win a SB with a coach after the first 5 years. I put my money on that much more than a Cowher. You're not the freaking Steelers and you have nowhere the culture they were much more willing to wait after winning four in the 70s, that's an insane comparison.

Edited by ant.accurate
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, PeytonMannings Forehead said:

You can’t be consistent as a unit if the execution isn’t consistent... so how exactly has the offense been consistent?

Cant run the ball every game, duh. That is as consistent as it gets, asides from 7 step drops on every throw. Next time just throw it from the parking lot. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Who'd show up next season hype? They have problems this year filling it up

1 hour ago, AUTiger7222 said:

Falcons are 5-2 in their last 7 games. Offense is averaging 26.9 PPG. Defense is giving up only 18.1 PPG. What exactly is wrong with thinking that the Falcons are capable of carrying this type of success over into 2020? That doesn't ignore that the Falcons were 1-7 to start the season, it just recognizes that the issues that led to 1-7 were fixed and that's why they're 5-2 since. That isn't "accepting medocrity" or whatever else you want to call it. It's recognizing that maybe, just maybe the coaching staff was able to change the tune of the season and that there's hope that they can carry over that success to 2020.

You look at the coaching candidates and they're not great. Why hire a less than impressive coach just for sake of making a change? Successful NFL franchises don't panic and make changes just to "satisfy" the fans. That's the wrong way to operate a successful sports franchise. The Browns and Jets are perennial bottom feeders because they're always blowing things up every few years. They don't give the people in charge a chance to work through things and get better. This is the NFL, there will be some down years from time-to-time. @TheFatboi mentioned the Steelers having only 3 coaches in his lifetime, we're talking about 50 years of having only 3 head coaches. They're only one of the top 3 most successful NFL franchises of all-time for a reason. It's because they don't panic when they have a down year or two. They gave Bill Cowher 14 years before he finally won the Super Bowl and then they won it twice in the span of 4 years with the team he built.

Arthur Blank isn't stupid. He's done his homework here and he's aware that sometimes the best change you can make is the one you don't make and that is where the Falcons are right now. Making a change right now isn't the right time. Look at who's available and tell me that you know for sure that they're guaranteed to win more games in 2020 than the Falcons are with the current setup. You can't, and that's the issue.

One last thing I want to point out, for you old timers calling for Dan Quinn's head, be careful what you wish, because who's to say that this isn't another Leeman Bennett situation. Bennett was fired because "he peaked" and was never gonna win the big one and yet that turned out to be the worst thing that happened to the Falcons. It took nearly 10 years after Bennett was fired before the Falcons even sniffed another playoff appearance. This is Blank making sure that history doesn't repeat its self and I'm thanking he's not making the same mistake The Smith's did.

So if every half season is different, what makes you think the first 8 games of 2020 won't go differently and possibly negatively? Why positive results carry over through rookie minicamp, voluntary OTAs, mandatory OTAs, training camp,etc historically? Did the wins from the SB season 'carryover'? What does 'carryover' mean? Teams 'carryover' the mistakes they made in the late season losses to the Falcons as well? Isn't this a self serving and silly way to think how something with infinite moving parts works?

Edited by ant.accurate
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Arthur Blank has just shown why he will never win a superbowl. Content with mediocrity and failure. Another year of prime Julio will be wasted and we can already see Matt Ryan declining. Defense will be mediocre next year again and with Dimitroff still gm no talent brought in to compete. Scared to splash on free agents and inept at drafting defensive talent. What a meme this organisation is becoming and it starts at the top with Blankenfein.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, TheFatboi said:

And that’s exactly why the browns and jets STAY at the bottom. To many coaching changes too frequent. Sean Payton had three  7-9 seasons back to back to back. Had he gotten fired they’re probably 5-11-7-9 right now. The Steelers have only had 3 HC’s in my entire life. And all of them won SB’s. But they had to endure the bad seasons with the good for that to happen. We will NEVER win anything if we don’t let something sustain for a minute. We were just in the playoffs 2 seasons ago AFTER a SB appearance. And probably didn’t beat Philly because of the OC change. Can’t keep changing and changing. Not if you want to be great. The problem is fans and owners get restless. Quinn is a good coach. He just needs to stay with the same OC and DC for more than 2 years. He could’ve promoted LaFleur to OC. Had he done that we win the SB in 17. Keep DK now. Don’t change him. If they do that’s another year of learning curve. Promote Morris to DC and keep it popping. 

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/why-coaches-and-qbs-should-divorce-after-five-years-of-not-winning/

"Of the 31 head coaches to win at least one Super Bowl, 27 of them won their first championship within the first five seasons with that team."

So you believe Quinn is like one of the four NOT to win a SB in the first 5 years (Chuck Noll (6 seasons) or Cowher (15 seasons) if the Steelers are your example? You think of the Falcons now of the Steelers of those coaches?

Good luck next year.

Edited by ant.accurate
Link to comment
Share on other sites

26 minutes ago, ant.accurate said:

Who'd show up next season hype? They have problems this year filling it up

So if every half season is different, what makes you think the first 8 games of 2020 won't go differently and possibly negatively? Why positive results carry over through rookie minicamp, voluntary OTAs, mandatory OTAs, training camp,etc historically? Did the wins from the SB season 'carryover'? What does 'carryover' mean? Teams 'carryover' the mistakes they made in the late season losses to the Falcons as well? Isn't this a self serving and silly way to think how something with infinite moving parts works?

 

24 minutes ago, ant.accurate said:

How do you imbue rookies and FA with the "positive" results of the last X games of the previous season? Injured players? The defense looked better after a certain player went prior to the last 8 games, is he benched now?

The coaching got better after the bye week because changes were made to how the players are coached and how the defense is called and schemed and therefore the players on that side of the ball got better. Why is it silly to think that the coaching can't be as good from the beginning in 2020 as it is right now?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The more I think about Dan staying the more I like the move here’s why:  1) We have full staff in place which gives us a jump on next season. 2) Look at the coaches out there who are putting themselves out there for selection. Ron R… Mike M… do we really want either of these coaches??  Or do we roll the dice with some unproven coordinator? 3) With salary cap restrictions in terms of attracting new talents… what coach wants to come in and be handicapped (or not depending on how you look at it) with players they did not a say in selecting to the team and have no room the bring others….4) We need improvement in certain areas… if we can make improvements we could easily be back to our winning ways. 5) This team still respects and plays for Dan… that in it’s self-counts for a lot… if he had lost the locker room then that would be a different conversation 6) finally we are seeing the changes in the defense during the season playing dividends and the O line starting to play better with the players, when healthy, playing together.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't agree with the decision, but here is my positive spin on it.

1.  Tom Dimitroff has never been the problem.  I think he is a very good collaborator.  He works well with his HC's and delivers to them what they want.  

The additions of Carpenter and Brown were understandable, given the dire needs along the OL.  I feel that TD should have scouted both FA's better and it is disappointing that neither has turned out to be a reliable stalwart at his position.  Other than these signings, I think TD has done a good enough job to be retained.

2.  Dan Quinn is a personable guy and he obviously is in good standing with his players.  He recognizes his weaknesses and is not bashful about making changes, when they are needed.  

3.  Raheem Morris did a great job with the defense this season.  It is tough enough to install a scheme and prepare players for it in the offseason.  It is another thing to take an existing scheme in mid-season and make it work. 

Morris deserves to be the DC and I believe he will build a great one in rapid fashion.  

4.  Dirk Koetter will not change what he does.  I think his plays take too long to develop, but I also recall how bad Shanny's offense looked in its first season.  Changing OC's once again is probably not in Matt's best interest, so it makes sense to retain Koetter and allow this offense the opportunity to prove itself next year.

Well, that's it.  While there is a lot of good talent on this team, there are also some tough cap decisions to be made.  I hope Hooper is not going to be a cap casualty for us.  Other than him, I would not balk at any other cap cuts this offseason.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 hours ago, AUTiger7222 said:

Falcons are 5-2 in their last 7 games. Offense is averaging 26.9 PPG. Defense is giving up only 18.1 PPG. What exactly is wrong with thinking that the Falcons are capable of carrying this type of success over into 2020? That doesn't ignore that the Falcons were 1-7 to start the season, it just recognizes that the issues that led to 1-7 were fixed and that's why they're 5-2 since. That isn't "accepting medocrity" or whatever else you want to call it. It's recognizing that maybe, just maybe the coaching staff was able to change the tune of the season and that there's hope that they can carry over that success to 2020.

You look at the coaching candidates and they're not great. Why hire a less than impressive coach just for sake of making a change? Successful NFL franchises don't panic and make changes just to "satisfy" the fans. That's the wrong way to operate a successful sports franchise. The Browns and Jets are perennial bottom feeders because they're always blowing things up every few years. They don't give the people in charge a chance to work through things and get better. This is the NFL, there will be some down years from time-to-time. @TheFatboi mentioned the Steelers having only 3 coaches in his lifetime, we're talking about 50 years of having only 3 head coaches. They're only one of the top 3 most successful NFL franchises of all-time for a reason. It's because they don't panic when they have a down year or two. They gave Bill Cowher 14 years before he finally won the Super Bowl and then they won it twice in the span of 4 years with the team he built.

Arthur Blank isn't stupid. He's done his homework here and he's aware that sometimes the best change you can make is the one you don't make and that is where the Falcons are right now. Making a change right now isn't the right time. Look at who's available and tell me that you know for sure that they're guaranteed to win more games in 2020 than the Falcons are with the current setup. You can't, and that's the issue.

One last thing I want to point out, for you old timers calling for Dan Quinn's head, be careful what you wish, because who's to say that this isn't another Leeman Bennett situation. Bennett was fired because "he peaked" and was never gonna win the big one and yet that turned out to be the worst thing that happened to the Falcons. It took nearly 10 years after Bennett was fired before the Falcons even sniffed another playoff appearance. This is Blank making sure that history doesn't repeat its self and I'm thanking he's not making the same mistake The Smith's did.

Exactly.  And, most on this board are ignoring the fact that Blank mandated the defensive coaching structure the first half of the season.  Once he realized it was not working, he unshackled the coaching staff and the defense improved dramatically.  That was not an accident or magic. 

How do I know?  For one, DQ announced what he was going to do prior to the season.  It smelled of a front office decision.  And, when other coaches said this was too much for a HC to do, DQ remained silent.  He did not respond in any way.  Second, when DQ announced he was relinquishing play calling on D, there was a dramatic improvement.  Does anyone think this was an accident?  Who provided a plan that transformed the defense?  You do not believe the DC (Quinn) was incompetent and the play callers were able to overcome that by calling good plays.  Right? 

And while all of this was going on, who was the HC?  Dirk was not running the offense by himself.  DQ was head coaching the team during the second half season run. 

Everyone needs to take a deep breath and relax.  Next season is going to be fun.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

21 hours ago, TheFatboi said:

I do. Because the offense was not the problem this year. And by now we should all know Matt usually has a down year for him in the first year with a new OC. So changing to another one would be another slow year of learning. The defense was giving up 30 ppg in the first half of the season. An nfl offense shouldn’t have to score 31 ppg to win games. Since the bye the defense is giving up 18 ppg. That means an offense averaging 25 ppg is playoff ready. 

Do we have the right HC then.

It seems he can’t synch all 3 phases together at once.

My biggest problem with DK is the run game and the mixed messaging we have with personnel.Gs situation and what are we doing upfront to help DKs case as an OC going foward.

We have run into consistency and ill-discipline problems under this HC and  I haven’t seen enough fixes on the coaching front.

I had this very discussion and doubt about KS but I have to say I could see an end game with him in place.The Falcons offense looked more fluid even first year out in the opening half of the season though they did fall away I could see light at the end of the tunnel.

When I watch a Koetter run offense once a opposing DC get the upper hand on us it looks like really hard work for our offense to overcome we come very predictable.It’s why we can go through stretches in games where we are punting on multiple series.The Jags game was a prime example up 14 early if we had the right play calling the games over at halftime.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, kiwifalcon said:

Do we have the right HC then.

It seems he can’t synch all 3 phases together at once.

My biggest problem with DK is the run game and the mixed messaging we have with personnel.Gs situation and what are we doing upfront to help DKs case as an OC going foward.

We have run into consistency and ill-discipline problems under this HC and  I haven’t seen enough fixes on the coaching front.

I had this very discussion and doubt about KS but I have to say I could see an end game with him in place.The Falcons offense looked more fluid even first year out in the opening half of the season though they did fall away I could see light at the end of the tunnel.

When I watch a Koetter run offense once a opposing DC get the upper hand on us it looks like really hard work for our offense to overcome we come very predictable.It’s why we can go through stretches in games where we are punting on multiple series.The Jags game was a prime example up 14 early if we had the right play calling the games over at halftime.

 

I think the HC is the right coach too. I think problem with why things don’t sync all together is the fact that nothing stays cohesive. Something always changes in the infrastructure. This season new OC, DC, and ST. And you could see it by the slow start to the season. 2017 slow start with new OC but the defense was on point because the promotion came from within the staff. 2016 both offense and defense were synced late in season. 2nd year with Kyle and smith/quinn. 2015 new OC and DC. Learning curves. 
 

THAT to me is the issue. We rarely keep the same faces for more than 2 years. If I blame quinn for anything it’s going outside to get an OC when LaFleur was right here. Besides that it’s the constant OC/DC carousel that has them starting seasons slow. Stay cohesive for a change. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 minutes ago, TheFatboi said:

I think the HC is the right coach too. I think problem with why things don’t sync all together is the fact that nothing stays cohesive. Something always changes in the infrastructure. This season new OC, DC, and ST. And you could see it by the slow start to the season. 2017 slow start with new OC but the defense was on point because the promotion came from within the staff. 2016 both offense and defense were synced late in season. 2nd year with Kyle and smith/quinn. 2015 new OC and DC. Learning curves. 
 

THAT to me is the issue. We rarely keep the same faces for more than 2 years. If I blame quinn for anything it’s going outside to get an OC when LaFleur was right here. Besides that it’s the constant OC/DC carousel that has them starting seasons slow. Stay cohesive for a change. 

At first I wasn't with retaining DQ. But the naming of Morris as DC made me warm up to the idea more. I think lessening the load will help DQ greatly, and I do admire him giving up playcalling duties. Shows humbleness

Link to comment
Share on other sites

18 minutes ago, MSalmon said:

At first I wasn't with retaining DQ. But the naming of Morris as DC made me warm up to the idea more. I think lessening the load will help DQ greatly, and I do admire him giving up playcalling duties. Shows humbleness

He pretty much said that in the presser he’d taken too much on and I agree he didn’t sit on his hands.Humbled himself to what was needed and found a solution.I’m a DQ fan for stuff like that it’s just seeing a lot of the same stuff that has me scratching my head and gives me these moments of pause.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...