Beasley At 9 Sacks?

[FalconsIn2012]

Does anyone know why PFF always has Vic with an extra sack?  It’s been that way the last several weeks.  Either they know the results beforehand or they measure stats different.  Any ideas?

[marvinthemartian]

They want to see Mike Bell get Beasley’s face tattooed on his butt. 

[Rings]

PFF doesn't count half sacks, they don't split them like ESPN does.  ESPN wants all the player's sacks to equal the overall sack numbers, PFF believes in if a player beats their guy and sacks someone, they get credit for a full sack, which I agree with.  A half sack is dumb and shouldn't exist.  

[FalconsIn2012]

1 minute ago, Rings said:

PFF doesn't count half sacks, they don't split them like ESPN does.  ESPN wants all the players sacks to equal the overall sack numbers, PFF believes in if a player beats their guy and sacks someone, they get credit for a full sack, which I agree with.  A half sack is dumb and shouldn't exist.  

So that’s the reason?  Makes too much sense.  

[Rings]

2 minutes ago, FalconsIn2012 said:

So that’s the reason?  Makes too much sense.  

Yep.  Normal stats will say Vic had a half sack in Week 3 and 1.5 sacks in Week 10.  PFF says he had one sack in Week 3 and 2 sacks in Week 10.

[FalconsIn2012]

1 minute ago, Rings said:

Yep.  Normal stats will say Vic had a half sack in Week 3 and 1.5 sacks in Week 10.  PFF says he had one sack in Week 3 and 2 sacks in Week 10.

So they have Vic with 38 sacks the last 4 years.  Not bad

[Rings]

10 minutes ago, FalconsIn2012 said:

So they have Vic with 38 sacks the last 4 years.  Not bad

37.  And you know my take on that stat, very, very misleading.  Below is a simple breakdown from them on their grade and why they think pressures are more valuable than sacks, and they even use Vic as the example.  Warning, Vic lovers won't like this and will dismiss it as PFF not knowing football.

 

[FalconsIn2012]

4 minutes ago, Rings said:

37.  And you know my take on that stat, very, very misleading.  Below is a simple breakdown from them on their grade and why they think pressures are more valuable than sacks, and they even use Vic as the example.  Warning, Vic lovers won't like this and will dismiss it as PFF not knowing football.

 

I know that article and your stance on Vic.  And I respect you..  But I’ve always seen Vic as a situational pass rusher.  In that role he is a valuable piece of the defense

 

Vic is a completely different player when we play with a lead

[grandcanyonaz]

The problem is how much do you want to pay him to a be situational pass rusher. He's a UFA soon and someone will probably give him some money thinking a change of scenery will get him back to sack leader which could be true.

[Rings]

26 minutes ago, FalconsIn2012 said:

I know that article.  But I’ve always seen Vic as a situational pass rusher.  In that role he is a valuable piece of the defense

I think you and I see eye to eye on a ton of stuff, but Vic may be the one thing we don't.  I personally see him as overrated, low effort, can't beat his blockers, flashes for one play in a game and fans think he's back.  Fans would never judge any other position by a single stat, but they do with Beasley on sacks alone.  That's it, no one else has anything else good to say about him. He isn't good in coverage, he doesn't tackle well, he isn't good against the run, his effort isn't good.  Nothing.  I just don't get what people see in him, which makes me believe they look at a stat line, particularly sacks, and think he is good because of it.  Yet every other stat, normal and advanced, tells us he isn't.

PFF Grades for Beasley and NFL Rank of Edge Defenders

2015: 70.5 (35th)
2016: 76.8 (22nd)
2017: 57.8 (106th)
2018: 42.2 (113th)
2019: 60.2 (88th)

I'm not an end all be all type person with PFF grades by any means, and I rarely reference their grades TBH, but I will in this scenario because that's the topic of the thread.  They are also the only place I know that grades a player on their overall performance and not just a single stat.  Takk has graded better than Vic in each of the three years he has been in the league from an overall stand point and a pass rush stand point. People love to knock Takk because of his lack of sack numbers...which is the equivalent of Saints fans trolling us on Julio's lack of TD numbers.  A single stat doesn't make a player good or bad...and sacks are no different...they don't make Takk bad, and they don't make Vic good.

[FalconsIn2012]

29 minutes ago, grandcanyonaz said:

The problem is how much do you want to pay him to a be situational pass rusher. He's a UFA soon and someone will probably give him some money thinking a change of scenery will get him back to sack leader which could be true.

We can’t keep, Vic.  Maybe get Irvin to fill his role along with Clay

[papachaz]

why do y'all even worry about the disney network and the the collinsworth idiots? the OFFICIAL stats are at NFL.com Vic has 8...that's the number that he will be credited with.

[MoFalconsFan56]

Just now, papachaz said:

why do y'all even worry about the disney network and the the collinsworth idiots? the OFFICIAL stats are at NFL.com Vic has 8...that's the number that he will be credited with.

Lol I was just laughing at the thought of someone paying 199$ for PFF to tell you if someone is a good player or not

[papachaz]

4 minutes ago, MoFalconsFan56 said:

Lol I was just laughing at the thought of someone paying 199$ for PFF to tell you if someone is a good player or not

IKR?!?!   especially for something like stats, because the other guys can say what they want, but at the end of the day, the NFL stats are the official ones

 

[Rings]

22 minutes ago, MoFalconsFan56 said:

Lol I was just laughing at the thought of someone paying 199$ for PFF to tell you if someone is a good player or not

Grades cost $40 and they run it half off all the time.

[atljbo]

2 hours ago, Rings said:

PFF doesn't count half sacks, they don't split them like ESPN does.  ESPN wants all the player's sacks to equal the overall sack numbers, PFF believes in if a player beats their guy and sacks someone, they get credit for a full sack, which I agree with.  A half sack is dumb and shouldn't exist.  

I never got the half sack bs.... if u are saying 2 players got there at the same time... They both should get a sack

[Rings]

17 minutes ago, papachaz said:

IKR?!?!   especially for something like stats, because the other guys can say what they want, but at the end of the day, the NFL stats are the official ones

 

You miss the entire point of analytics then.  NFL can have official stats, doesn’t mean those stats determine what players are better or will predict future success.

[MoFalconsFan56]

31 minutes ago, papachaz said:

IKR?!?!   especially for something like stats, because the other guys can say what they want, but at the end of the day, the NFL stats are the official ones

 

Yep. We can’t just make up our own way to count things and say that’s it lol. They play for the league therefore the league decides

[MoFalconsFan56]

14 minutes ago, Rings said:

Grades cost $40 and they run it half off all the time.

Yeah it’s just not my bag

[Rings]

15 minutes ago, atljbo said:

I never got the half sack bs.... if u are saying 2 players got there at the same time... They both should get a sack

Fans have a hard time adapting to thinking outside of the box, it’s why they hold on to basic stats.  

Basic stats says a qb throws a horrid pass that a DB drops.  It shows incomplete, analytics say it should have been picked off and therefor blames the QB.

Basic stats say if a qb throws a perfect pass that goes off a WRs hands and is intercepted that it’s the QBs fault, analytics says it’s the WRs fault.  

Basic stats say if a running back has 13 carries for -8 yards and then breaks one for 60 yards they have over a 4 YPC, analytics say they had a 7% success rate.  

Basic stats say if the qb holds onto the ball too long or runs into a defender that they were sacked and that it’s the OL fault, analytics put that pressure/sack on the QB.  

NFL teams all have an analytics department, they pay for advanced stats and data.  They are realizing there is a better way of looking at the data out there, they are adjusting with the times, it’s time the fans do so as well.

[MoFalconsFan56]

2 minutes ago, Rings said:

Fans have a hard time adapting to thinking outside of the box, it’s why they hold on to basic stats.  

Basic stats says a qb throws a horrid pass that a DB drops.  It shows incomplete, analytics say it should have been picked off.  

Basic stats say if a qb throws a perfect pass that goes off a WRs hands and is intercepted that it’s the QBs fault, analytics says it’s the WRs fault.  

Basic stats say if a running back has 13 carries for -8 yards and then breaks one for 60 yards they have over a 4 YPC, analytics say they had a 7% success rate.  

Basic stats say if the qb holds onto the ball too long or runs into a defender that they were sacked and that it’s the OL fault, analytics put that pressure/sack on the QB.  

NFL teams all have an analytics department, they pay for advanced stats and data.  They are realizing there is a better way of looking at the data out there, they are adjusting with the times, it’s time the fans do so as well.

I feel like the majority of us on here (and I may be giving us too much credit lol) understand there’s more to the game than just the hard numbers. Most of us just don’t feel the need to pay for someone else to explain that to us. Ppl who hang on to cris collinsworth every word like gospel as if he’s the first person to ever watch a football game may need it more than some but I can also see how more advanced fans just kinda like to have a little more info available it’s just not my thing. I sure wish I figured out a way to profit from watching football tho lol 

[Rings]

1 minute ago, MoFalconsFan56 said:

I feel like the majority of us on here (and I may be giving us too much credit lol) understand there’s more to the game than just the hard numbers. Most of us just don’t feel the need to pay for someone else to explain that to us. Ppl who hang on to cris collinsworth every word like gospel as if he’s the first person to ever watch a football game may need it more than some but I can also see how more advanced fans just kinda like to have a little more info available it’s just not my thing. I sure wish I figured out a way to profit from watching football tho lol 

I use some PFF but I use a ton of free stuff too.  I mainly use PFF for advanced stats (pressures rates, qb performance in clean pocket vs under pressure, play action %, tackling efficiency, offensive line pressures allowed, etc) and no so much their grades.  I also like Sharp Football for a ton of data also, mainly personnel grouping.  

I watch the game first and foremost, then I look at the data and see if it backs up what I think I saw.  I DVR a lot of the games, if I feel something is way off I will go back and watch some of it to see why it didn’t line up.  Stats/data aren’t the end all be all, but it will help you understand the good and bad more and helps you stay more level header.  Analytics takes a lot of the emotion out of the game...something I think a lot of people could use on game day.  Hahaha.

[MoFalconsFan56]

Just now, Rings said:

I use some PFF but I use a ton of free stuff too.  I mainly use PFF for advanced stats (pressures rates, qb performance in clean pocket vs under pressure, play action %, tackling efficiency, offensive line pressures allowed, etc) and no so much their grades.  I also like Sharp Football for a ton of data also, mainly personnel grouping.  

I watch the game first and foremost, then I look at the data and see if it backs up what I think I saw.  I DVR a lot of the games, if I feel something is way off I will go back and watch some of it to see why it didn’t line up.  Stats/data aren’t the end all be all, but it will help you understand the good and bad more and helps you stay more level header.  Analytics takes a lot of the emotion out of the game...something I think a lot of people could use on game day.  Hahaha.

You’re def right and it’s fun seeing things that most fans don’t. I was WAY MORE into stats before I had kids lol. Not enough hours in the day anymore. Although, if I were to invest in anything NFL related I would like that “all 22” or whatever it’s called. Scouting and/or studying tape and devising a game plan against a collegiate or pro team would probably be a dream come true for me

[1989Fan]

8 hours ago, FalconsIn2012 said:

We can’t keep, Vic.  Maybe get Irvin to fill his role along with Clay

Draft Epenesa or Gross Matos (or whoever shakes out as the best DE) and say adios to Beasley.

Shaka Toney (PSU homering) in mid rounds can probably bring the situational pass rush we get from Vic. (Once again, or whoever is the best prospect)

[MAD597]

9 hours ago, Rings said:

I think you and I see eye to eye on a ton of stuff, but Vic may be the one thing we don't.  I personally see him as overrated, low effort, can't beat his blockers, flashes for one play in a game and fans think he's back.  Fans would never judge any other position by a single stat, but they do with Beasley on sacks alone.  That's it, no one else has anything else good to say about him. He isn't good in coverage, he doesn't tackle well, he isn't good against the run, his effort isn't good.  Nothing.  I just don't get what people see in him, which makes me believe they look at a stat line, particularly sacks, and think he is good because of it.  Yet every other stat, normal and advanced, tells us he isn't.

PFF Grades for Beasley and NFL Rank of Edge Defenders

2015: 70.5 (35th)
2016: 76.8 (22nd)
2017: 57.8 (106th)
2018: 42.2 (113th)
2019: 60.2 (88th)

I'm not an end all be all type person with PFF grades by any means, and I rarely reference their grades TBH, but I will in this scenario because that's the topic of the thread.  They are also the only place I know that grades a player on their overall performance and not just a single stat.  Takk has graded better than Vic in each of the three years he has been in the league from an overall stand point and a pass rush stand point. People love to knock Takk because of his lack of sack numbers...which is the equivalent of Saints fans trolling us on Julio's lack of TD numbers.  A single stat doesn't make a player good or bad...and sacks are no different...they don't make Takk bad, and they don't make Vic good.

They still are issues, Takk lack of sacks and JJs bad TD numbers are problems. All the secondary stats in the world don't make up for the primary stats at the players positions. Takk should be getting more actual sacks and JJ should be scoring more TDs.

We've been hearing excuses for lack of sacks for our team for well over a decade. It's BS, our franchise has an issue sacking the QB and that needs to be fixed. Sack numbers are important. Far to often we whiff a sack and the opposing QB stretches out a play to burn us.