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BirdGangATL

Vic Beasley

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1 hour ago, FalconsIn2012 said:

I’m going off ESPN and they distinguish the two

Yeah, pro football reference has him with four over last three weeks.  Only thing I can think of is if one site measures qb hits while qb still has ball in hands vs after the pass maybe?  

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6 hours ago, WhenFalconsWin said:

He had a good 6 weeks at the end of last season as well. I don't know why he disappears for certain stretches of the season bit it motivation of lack thereof. But for the right price I'd keep Beastley because there are times he's brilliant. 

Price check on DE accordingly, obviously.

Yes would definitely keep him at the right price but that won’t happen on the free market 

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11 minutes ago, Draftnut57 said:

VB is going nowhere ,, He's a good player and getting a little better every year.. he just needs some help.

He gonna get $10+ on the open market IMO. 

Still young, Tons of athleticism, precious sack leader...27th in sacks this season, could end up higher.

ATL likely won’t be in the market at that price. I do think if he gets motivated by changing teams that the right scheme could make him a double digit sack guy again.

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1 minute ago, Rings said:

In what world is he getting better every year?  He peaked in 16.  The end.

lol True 

I don't buy performances only when a new contract is on the line. We've known all along a lot of Vic's issues begin with desire.

Dude gonna sign a new contract and then start dreaming of basketball again. 

Bank it.

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4 hours ago, Draftnut57 said:

VB is going nowhere ,, He's a good player and getting a little better every year.. he just needs some help.

I'ma say the one who's getting better is Takk. Much better in QB pressures/hits/hurries, despite less playing time (and an injury). Not all sacks. Pair Grady with another stud in the middle (D Brown if available in the 1st), that'll help collapse the pocket and help Takk finish plays. Sacks aren't everything, 98>44, and PFF agrees.

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1 minute ago, TXAintsHater said:

I'ma say the one who's getting better is Takk. Much better in QB pressures/hits/hurries, despite less playing time (and an injury). Not all sacks. Pair Grady with another stud in the middle (D Brown if available in the 1st), that'll help collapse the pocket and help Takk finish plays. Sacks aren't everything, 98>44, and PFF agrees.

Agree 100%

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50 minutes ago, Draftnut57 said:

Well, its pretty easy to see that AB and Quinn don't agree with you guys... I happen to agree with the FO on this one...

How, did they just re-sign him or something???

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5 minutes ago, Draftnut57 said:

How many sacks a DE has , doesn't always reflect the total work of that DE,, Just pressures alone make a huge impact.  You have to judge the whole   body of work.

The thing w Vic is he has a low QB pressures rate. Even in his ‘16 season he led the league in sacks but his pressures beyond his sacks were abnormally low, I remember reading about it.

EDIT: here ya go after some quick digging:

https://www.pff.com/news/pro-the-importance-of-pressure-its-not-all-about-sacks

VIC BEASLEY, EDGE ATLANTA FALCONS (10.4 PRP, 29TH AMONG EDGE DEFENDERS)

Vic Beasley had a great season, and finishing 29th among 110 qualified edge defenders in pass-rushing productivity is nothing to scoff at and he’s a player that Falcons fans should certainly be excited about. With that being said, since Beasley led the league in sacks last season, many people would see that and conclude that Beasley was the premier pass-rusher in the NFL last year and that would be a pretty big misrepresentation of his true performance.

Beasley finished the year with 45 total pressures. Despite besting Khalil Mack by five sacks, Mack had more than double (96) the number of pressures that Beasley had. Beasley had at least five pressures in just five games while having zero games in which he recorded double-digit pressures; Mack had ten games with at least five pressures last year, including three that reached double-digits. If Beasley is going to force himself into the conversation in terms of elite pass-rushers, he’s going to need generate pressure much more consistently, because he will be very unlikely to repeat his conversion rate of notching a sack on 28.5 percent of all of his pressures in 2017 and beyond.

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7 minutes ago, 1989Fan said:

The thing w Vic is he has a low QB pressures rate. Even in his ‘16 season he led the league in sacks but his pressures beyond his sacks were abnormally low, I remember reading about it.

EDIT: here ya go after some quick digging:

https://www.pff.com/news/pro-the-importance-of-pressure-its-not-all-about-sacks

VIC BEASLEY, EDGE ATLANTA FALCONS (10.4 PRP, 29TH AMONG EDGE DEFENDERS)

Vic Beasley had a great season, and finishing 29th among 110 qualified edge defenders in pass-rushing productivity is nothing to scoff at and he’s a player that Falcons fans should certainly be excited about. With that being said, since Beasley led the league in sacks last season, many people would see that and conclude that Beasley was the premier pass-rusher in the NFL last year and that would be a pretty big misrepresentation of his true performance.

Beasley finished the year with 45 total pressures. Despite besting Khalil Mack by five sacks, Mack had more than double (96) the number of pressures that Beasley had. Beasley had at least five pressures in just five games while having zero games in which he recorded double-digit pressures; Mack had ten games with at least five pressures last year, including three that reached double-digits. If Beasley is going to force himself into the conversation in terms of elite pass-rushers, he’s going to need generate pressure much more consistently, because he will be very unlikely to repeat his conversion rate of notching a sack on 28.5 percent of all of his pressures in 2017 and beyond.

Well, even if hes not a top DE,, He's still a good DE, and they are hard to find. So we can use our picks on the top needs in this Aprils draft.

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1 minute ago, Draftnut57 said:

Well, even if hes not a top DE,, He's still a good DE, and they are hard to find. So we can use our picks on the top needs in this Aprils draft.

I would keep him, but not at what the open market will bring him. People will over pay, and I wouldn’t want to touch a 5 year, $50M+ deal, which is what I am guessing he will get.

cap won’t allow it, plus it’s just not a good deal for the team.

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18 minutes ago, 1989Fan said:

I would keep him, but not at what the open market will bring him. People will over pay, and I wouldn’t want to touch a 5 year, $50M+ deal, which is what I am guessing he will get.

cap won’t allow it, plus it’s just not a good deal for the team.

The FO will work it out.. they'll getter done.. I assure you of that.. bank on it.

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9 hours ago, TXAintsHater said:

I'ma say the one who's getting better is Takk. Much better in QB pressures/hits/hurries, despite less playing time (and an injury). Not all sacks. Pair Grady with another stud in the middle (D Brown if available in the 1st), that'll help collapse the pocket and help Takk finish plays. Sacks aren't everything, 98>44, and PFF agrees.

Tak is a bigger disappointment than Beasley ever was.  I’m getting sick of Mr. Almost Sacks.  All these pressures but rarely gets a sack.  He’s either the most unlucky pass rusher in history or he’s just not that good.    

Edited by Godzilla1985

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3 hours ago, Draftnut57 said:

How many sacks a DE has , doesn't always reflect the total work of that DE,, Just pressures alone make a huge impact.  You have to judge the whole   body of work.

This logic is exactly why I prefer Takk over Vic, which is the opposite of what you were going for here I think.

Takk has more hurries, more qb hits, more overall pressures, better pressure rate, better in the run game, less missed tackles, better in coverage, better effort, was a later draft pick and costs less even before Vic’s 5th year option.  

Vic has more sacks, that’s it.  

1 hour ago, Godzilla1985 said:

Tak is a bigger disappointment than Beasley ever was.  I’m getting sick of Mr. Almost Sacks.  All these pressures but rarely gets a sack.  He’s either the most unlucky pass rusher in history or he’s just not that good.    

The fact that people think Takk is a bigger dissapoinent than Vic blows my mind, but it shows they are looking at the one shiny stat and making that the end all be all as to who is good and who isn’t.

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19 minutes ago, Rings said:

This logic is exactly why I prefer Takk over Vic, which is the opposite of what you were going for here I think.

Takk has more hurries, more qb hits, more overall pressures, better pressure rate, better in the run game, less missed tackles, better in coverage, better effort, was a later draft pick and costs less even before Vic’s 5th year option.  

Vic has more sacks, that’s it.  

The fact that people think Takk is a bigger dissapoinent than Vic blows my mind, but it shows they are looking at the one shiny stat and making that the end all be all as to who is good and who isn’t.

Seems your only looking at pressures and nothing else either.  He doesn’t have more tackles, forced fumbles, etc.  

 

If he does have all these pressures he should have many more sacks. He’s either extremely unlucky or can’t finish off a sack. If it’s finishing then what is the point of him being a pass rusher?. Couple that with his mouthy negative attitude  and being hurt all the time, I’m ready for him to leave. 

 

He’s still a 1st round pick. And has been a bad one.

 

I do respect your opinion Rings but this I can’t agree with you on.

Edited by Godzilla1985

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8 minutes ago, Godzilla1985 said:

Seems your only looking at pressures and nothing else either.  He doesn’t have more tackles, forced fumbles, etc.  

 

If he does have all these pressures he should have many more sacks. He’s either extremely unlucky or can’t finish off a sack. If it’s finishing then what is the point of him being a pass rusher?. Couple that with his mouthy negative attitude  and being hurt all the time, I’m ready for him to leave. 

 

He’s still a 1st round pick. And has been a bad one.

 

I do respect your opinion Rings but this I can’t agree with you on.

For the record I think both have been a disappointment, neither of them are good at creating pressure overall, Vic has always turned an abnormally high amount of his pressures into sacks.  Actually our best pass rushers for the year has been Clayborn, who has 48 pressures and Jarrett with 43...Vic and Takk only have 35 and 32.

As far as tackles, I don't know that is a very telling stat...Vic plays more actual linebacker snaps and over three times the coverage snaps so he naturally is going to have more tackles.  The forced fumbles is valid to a point.  When Vic gets to the QB he is absolutely amazing, I've never knocked him for that.  But he gets close to the QB less than most and that's my issue with him, every other play that he just goes missing.  In my opinion I would rather keep Takk around as he would be cheaper and I prefer the effort piece over feast or famine, but I'd be perfectly fine if they both walked.

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6 hours ago, Rings said:

For the record I think both have been a disappointment, neither of them are good at creating pressure overall, Vic has always turned an abnormally high amount of his pressures into sacks.  Actually our best pass rushers for the year has been Clayborn, who has 48 pressures and Jarrett with 43...Vic and Takk only have 35 and 32.

As far as tackles, I don't know that is a very telling stat...Vic plays more actual linebacker snaps and over three times the coverage snaps so he naturally is going to have more tackles.  The forced fumbles is valid to a point.  When Vic gets to the QB he is absolutely amazing, I've never knocked him for that.  But he gets close to the QB less than most and that's my issue with him, every other play that he just goes missing.  In my opinion I would rather keep Takk around as he would be cheaper and I prefer the effort piece over feast or famine, but I'd be perfectly fine if they both walked.

Well, if you really think about it,, WE could use a major league DT also... If we could get one in the draft ,, I think it would help a ton... our DEs would probably double there sack count.

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14 minutes ago, Draftnut57 said:

Well, if you really think about it,, WE could use a major league DT also... If we could get one in the draft ,, I think it would help a ton... our DEs would probably double there sack count.

Our DEs aren’t missing out in sacks because QBs are stepping up in the pocket, they aren’t beating their blockers would be problem one, problem two would be coverage.  I would love a top tier corner more than a DT at this point.

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