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If it was up to Matt Ryan do you think he'd want to bring back Dirk Koetter next year or bring in yet another new offensive coordinator?


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If he wants to be one of the best he’s going to need someone else. Even with Koetter using Shanahans playbook, it just looked like he picked plays resembling his own style anyway. We need to be more balanced, and we aren’t getting that. We are a west coast outside zone team. We haven’t been looking like it, and Ryan had his best years when running wco. Our run game was working when Ryan had his best years. He was best, or **** near the best in the league at play action. Take that away and he struggles a bit more. 

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5 minutes ago, Drunken Minotaur Zebra said:

Matt has been through what, 5 OCs, in his career? 

 

The dude probably just wants some consistency. Being able to build on this year is a good thing - I remember our offense looking unstoppable in 2012 under Koetter. 

I don't like this line of thinking.  Sticking with someone for the sake of sticking with someone.  If there is an upgrade, we need to move on it with Matt and Julio entering the final years of their career.  Now is not the time to stick with coordinators who cannot adapt and force feed their crap schemes on the personnel.

Koetter has been awful this year.  Awful.  The offense looks remarkably worse from even Sark.  Give Matt a great offensive mind like Shanny for the rest of his years and watch him put in work.  DK's scheme overall is not suited to Matt, nor his age and point in career.  Square peg round hole.

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4 minutes ago, Smiler11 said:

I don't know the answer and I guess we'll never know for sure, but it's a good question. I doubt the prospect of learning a new system appeals and if our next player caller is also the HC, as many here want, then there is always a risk that they'll want to build around their guy. 

I just think it's a bad call to blow things up when a team is clearly building on something. 

The SeaChickens floundered for a while under Carroll till everything clicked. We need consistency - can't blow up a team when Matt and Julio don't exactly have another 5-10 years to play with new schemes. 

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1 minute ago, athell said:

I don't like this line of thinking.  Sticking with someone for the sake of sticking with someone.  If there is an upgrade, we need to move on it with Matt and Julio entering the final years of their career.  Now is not the time to stick with coordinators who cannot adapt and force feed their crap schemes on the personnel.

Koetter has been awful this year.  Awful.  The offense looks remarkably worse from even Sark.  Give Matt a great offensive mind like Shanny for the rest of his years and watch him put in work.  DK's scheme overall is not suited to Matt, nor his age and point in career.  Square peg round hole.

So we get yet another new OC ... what's to say the issue wasn't execution or communication? Our offense sure looked fine against two top defenses. Should we really drop a guy that Matt was 10 yds from a Super Bowl under and go with an unknown? Unless we can get Stafnaski I don't see it. 

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Just now, Drunken Minotaur Zebra said:

So we get yet another new OC ... what's to say the issue wasn't execution or communication? Our offense sure looked fine against two top defenses. Should we really drop a guy that Matt was 10 yds from a Super Bowl under and go with an unknown? Unless we can get Stafnaski I don't see it. 

What's to say the issue isn't DK?  Like I said, our offense has taken a giant step back from even Sark.  One game here or there doesn't change that fact.

Stop living off 2012 man.  That was 7 years ago.  This is why we are in the circumstances we are in, we continue to go off past performances while the rest of the league is looking towards the future.

How anyone could want DK back is beyond me.  Truly.

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7 minutes ago, athell said:

What's to say the issue isn't DK?  Like I said, our offense has taken a giant step back from even Sark.  One game here or there doesn't change that fact.

Stop living off 2012 man.  That was 7 years ago.  This is why we are in the circumstances we are in, we continue to go off past performances while the rest of the league is looking towards the future.

How anyone could want DK back is beyond me.  Truly.

DK has been a big dud, but it's his first year back. I agree with you that if there are better OCs available we would be foolish not to look into making the change, but who's to say there will be better options out there?

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1 minute ago, Dr Long Shot said:

DK has been a big dud, but it's his first year back. I agree with you that if there are better OCs available we would be foolish not to look into making the change, but who's to say there will be better options out there?

Time will tell...and sure it depends on the pool to pick from, but I think we can improve on the 20th best offense in the league regardless.  DK's scheme doesn't fit.  That is my primary issue.  It's square peg round hole.  It won't work with our present personnel.

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I think Ryan wanted him back because he knew him and it was familiar.  But Koetter is not going to challenge Matt and get him out of his comfort zone.  People in life grow the most when they are put in that position, Ryan was there in 16 under Shanny.  Since he left, Ryan has gone back to being in more and more shotgun, less and less play action and his performance has been more inconsistent.  I know we will never have Shanny again, but I want someone who is going to challenge him and get him out of his comfort zone, in whatever type scheme we run.  

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27 minutes ago, Drunken Minotaur Zebra said:

Matt has been through what, 5 OCs, in his career? 

 

The dude probably just wants some consistency. Being able to build on this year is a good thing - I remember our offense looking unstoppable in 2012 under Koetter. 

One good thing is Dirk Koetter is highly unlikely to be promoted to head coach. 

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6 minutes ago, athell said:

Time will tell...and sure it depends on the pool to pick from, but I think we can improve on the 20th best offense in the league regardless.  DK's scheme doesn't fit.  That is my primary issue.  It's square peg round hole.  It won't work with our present personnel.

Exactly.  First year here or not, he has had one of the worst running games in the league for a decade.  Shanny at least was getting the most out of players at previous stops for us to have hope of it clicking in year two.  Sark was a first time play caller so another year made sense for him to grow.  Dirk has no excuse, not first time calling plays, not first time here, hasn't made offenses substantially better anywhere he has been since 2009, it's time to go.

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I think Matt will. I don’t. My coordinator rankings in order would be:

Joe Brady

Mike McDaniel

Gary Kubiak

Kellen Moore

Kellen Moore being the most realistic. When Dallas let’s Garrett walk, we could potentially poach both coordinators. Keep in mind that Dallas has a top 5 offense in yards and points his first year as OC. And Kris Richard is one of the most respected coordinators in the league and has a history with DQ.

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1 minute ago, Rings said:

Exactly.  First year here or not, he has had one of the worst running games in the league for a decade.  Shanny at least was getting the most out of players at previous stops for us to have hope of it clicking in year two.  Sark was a first time play caller so another year made sense for him to grow.  Dirk has no excuse, not first time calling plays, not first time here, hasn't made offenses substantially better anywhere he has been since 2009, it's time to go.

I hear you guys, but what options are available? I guess if we switch Head Coaches we will probably go with an OC, but in the case that we keep Quinn, which is looking like a distinct possibility, I'm not sure we will get a crack at a stud OC. Koetter may not be a mastermind but I think we can have success with him and our current o-line barring injuries. 

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3 minutes ago, Rings said:

Exactly.  First year here or not, he has had one of the worst running games in the league for a decade.  Shanny at least was getting the most out of players at previous stops for us to have hope of it clicking in year two.  Sark was a first time play caller so another year made sense for him to grow.  Dirk has no excuse, not first time calling plays, not first time here, hasn't made offenses substantially better anywhere he has been since 2009, it's time to go.

100% in agreement.

The staple of a DK offense is poor rushing attack, not even attempting to, and long shots down field.  All kryptonite of an aging qb.  Especially when said said aging qb is getting pummeled waiting for guys to get open downfield on the backend.

Seems like we may have trenches close, at least oline, we need someone to build our run game.  Commit to the run game.  Lessen the load on Matt.  Play solid defense.  Win.  It's really that simple, we are overthinking this.  DK isn't that guy.

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Just now, Dr Long Shot said:

I hear you guys, but what options are available? I guess if we switch Head Coaches we will probably go with an OC, but in the case that we keep Quinn, which is looking like a distinct possibility, I'm not sure we will get a crack at a stud OC. Koetter may not be a mastermind but I think we can have success with him and our current o-line barring injuries. 

College or an up and coming positional coach.  The names thrown around like Kubiak are a pipe dream.  If it's head coach I would lean Stefanski, and as much as I was against McCarthy early on, the more and more I read on him adapting his mindset and planning towards analytics...it is starting to grow on me.

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1 minute ago, Dr Long Shot said:

I hear you guys, but what options are available? I guess if we switch Head Coaches we will probably go with an OC, but in the case that we keep Quinn, which is looking like a distinct possibility, I'm not sure we will get a crack at a stud OC. Koetter may not be a mastermind but I think we can have success with him and our current o-line barring injuries. 

Not sure, will have to see who is out there.  I just don't want to stick to DK just because.  I have a short list of guys, McDaniels, Stefanski, Kubiak (pipe dream), Harbaugh?  My main thing again is the system DK employs will not work with this personnel, so it would be another wasted year at least on offense.

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4 minutes ago, athell said:

100% in agreement.

The staple of a DK offense is poor rushing attack, not even attempting to, and long shots down field.  All kryptonite of an aging qb.  Especially when said said aging qb is getting pummeled waiting for guys to get open downfield on the backend.

Seems like we may have trenches close, at least oline, we need someone to build our run game.  Commit to the run game.  Lessen the load on Matt.  Play solid defense.  Win.  It's really that simple, we are overthinking this.  DK isn't that guy.

We have the QB, the receivers, the TE1, strong oline in a zone scheme if we get a LG, running backs are meh but I think if we use New Englands 2 or our 3rd on one to go with Smith and Hill I'd be happy with it.  If Freeman would restructure his contract I wouldn't be completely against seeing him in a new system either.  But you're right, we will be middle of the pack production with top tier talent in another season with Koetter.  Our best drive of the day yesterday was when Ryan went no huddle and limitted the impact Koetter had on the offense, haha.  That may be an exaggeration, but you get the point.

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1 minute ago, Rings said:

We have the QB, the receivers, the TE1, strong oline in a zone scheme if we get a LG, running backs are meh but I think if we use New Englands 2 or our 3rd on one to go with Smith and Hill I'd be happy with it.  If Freeman would restructure his contract I wouldn't be completely against seeing him in a new system either.  But you're right, we will be middle of the pack production with top tier talent in another season with Koetter.  Our best drive of the day yesterday was when Ryan went no huddle and limitted the impact Koetter had on the offense, haha.  That may be an exaggeration, but you get the point.

Whaddaya think about Gono at LG going forward?

And you are spot on there.  I've (half) joked around here before that Matt should just be his own OC :) 

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He has shown some really good things.  Think we still need to address depth over the next two years.  Brown we can't cut until 2021, Carpenter we can cut this next year if we use the post June 1st designation, would give us 2.5mil in relief.  I'm worried about how Mack has played lately, a lot of aging players I feel are looking worse than they really are in this scheme, so same as Free, I'll hold off my opinion until next year.

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50 minutes ago, Drunken Minotaur Zebra said:

Matt has been through what, 5 OCs, in his career? 

 

The dude probably just wants some consistency. Being able to build on this year is a good thing - I remember our offense looking unstoppable in 2012 under Koetter. 

Ryan doesn't get enough credit for this.  It is very difficult to have so many different O.C.'s and schemes put into place in one career and he has still done an excellent job with every OC and scheme that he has been paired with.

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24 minutes ago, Rings said:

I think Ryan wanted him back because he knew him and it was familiar.  But Koetter is not going to challenge Matt and get him out of his comfort zone.  People in life grow the most when they are put in that position, Ryan was there in 16 under Shanny.  Since he left, Ryan has gone back to being in more and more shotgun, less and less play action and his performance has been more inconsistent.  I know we will never have Shanny again, but I want someone who is going to challenge him and get him out of his comfort zone, in whatever type scheme we run.  

I agree with you. Matt Ryan has shown that he can be the best in the league (That's right -- the best) if he is willing to stretch himself beyond what he's comfortable with, and Koetter is never going to be that guy for Ryan. He needs somebody that's detail-oriented and is not going to placate him. I don't know who that guy is, but if we can get a person like that Ryan will be best in the league again. Mark my words.

Edited by likeriver
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Koetter is not the right man for the long term. We know who Dirk is. Long, bland routes/schemes that puts a lot of pressure on the OL and skill players. It's a scheme built for college or old school 80s NFL. Dirk is probably not going to change who he is.

One concern I have with hiring a hot shot, younger OC is if/when he gets the offense humming consistently again, he's going to be considered a HC candidate and we'll have to find another OC. One way to remedy that would be to promote from within the OC's staff and hope the same success continues. 

We had interest in Kubiak last year and IDK if we would try again (or if he's interested) but he has said he has no interest in being a HC again. I have no idea if he's a possibility but if he was, he probably wouldn't seek a HC position again.

 

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1 hour ago, Dr Long Shot said:

DK has been a big dud, but it's his first year back. I agree with you that if there are better OCs available we would be foolish not to look into making the change, but who's to say there will be better options out there?

That's my point. 

 

Unless somehow we land Kubiak or Stafnaski or some crazy OC hire... we're just shooting in the dark. At least DK has a history of *success* with Matt, even if this year has been down. 

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