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TheDirtyWordII

A TDWII Observation: The Panthers & Falcons Rebuilds Will Occur Side-by-Side, But…

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42 minutes ago, TheDirtyWordII said:

Brees just put up 6 TD's against a defense that was averaging giving up 135 passing YPG.  If you can't be objective here, you're not going to do well on this thread.

Rodgers is a wash...c'mon.

This tells me you haven't kept up with any advanced stats on Rodgers vs Ryan since 2015. Rodgers had two ridiculous seasons that people still hang heavily on: 2011 and 2014. Other than that, stats have shown Rodgers has been less than "godly" than the media treats him. Perception.

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2 minutes ago, vel said:

This is nothing but your last thread about moving on from Ryan, covered in a comparison cloak. But I'll bite. 

The Falcons, like 2012 pointed out, aren't in a full rebuild. The offense is still legit. It's extremely hindered by poor coaching/playcalling. I'd be willing to bet the offense with a modern OC can average 28 points per game with the current talent. That's not unreasonable. The defense needs a complete overhaul. They currently have four picks in the top 100. They could easily use all four on the very best defensive players at those picks and be headed in the right direction. Get a coach who can call defensive schemes that match today's football and you should improve from bottom three. 

This isn't a team devoid of talent. This is a team with no legit identity and some of the worst coaching in the NFL. Koetter is not calling plays that win in the current NFL landscape. DQ is trying to win with a static scheme that was figured out years ago without the talent that made it legendary to begin with. 

I'm happy to have the conversations that get spurred by my threads...but I didn't bring Ryan up.

I'd argue that the players lack of accountability has been as big a factor in the Falcons failures the last two seasons, something it seems AFMB is all to willing to perpetuate.  

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7 minutes ago, vel said:

This is nothing but your last thread about moving on from Ryan, covered in a comparison cloak. But I'll bite. 

The Falcons, like 2012 pointed out, aren't in a full rebuild. The offense is still legit. It's extremely hindered by poor coaching/playcalling. I'd be willing to bet the offense with a modern OC can average 28 points per game with the current talent. That's not unreasonable. The defense needs a complete overhaul. They currently have four picks in the top 100. They could easily use all four on the very best defensive players at those picks and be headed in the right direction. Get a coach who can call defensive schemes that match today's football and you should improve from bottom three. 

This isn't a team devoid of talent. This is a team with no legit identity and some of the worst coaching in the NFL. Koetter is not calling plays that win in the current NFL landscape. DQ is trying to win with a static scheme that was figured out years ago without the talent that made it legendary to begin with. 

And being honest, the defense is at least showing signs.  4 very good outings out of their last 5.  Next week should be a good measuring stick 

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2 minutes ago, vel said:

This tells me you haven't kept up with any advanced stats on Rodgers vs Ryan since 2015. Rodgers had two ridiculous seasons that people still hang heavily on: 2011 and 2014. Other than that, stats have shown Rodgers has been less than "godly" than the media treats him. Perception.

I've seen the advanced stats...I think they tell one story about the two.  And Ryan has always fared well with those, even if the teams he's led haven't.

But Rodgers 110-60-1 career record tells the other.  The career record that entails only two losing seasons (one his first year starting) v Ryan's 5 of the last 7 mark.

Ryan is very much respected player.  But Rodgers is significantly more feared.

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6 minutes ago, FalconFanSince1969 said:

Also, explain how we move on from Ryan please. I want to know. I also want to know who we're replacing him with from this supposed 'pipeline' of mobile qbs just waiting to be drafted. 

Pipeline I referred to earlier was OL.

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7 minutes ago, vel said:

This tells me you haven't kept up with any advanced stats on Rodgers vs Ryan since 2015. Rodgers had two ridiculous seasons that people still hang heavily on: 2011 and 2014. Other than that, stats have shown Rodgers has been less than "godly" than the media treats him. Perception.

Rodgers has only eclipsed 4,500 yards once.  Ryan has averaged 4,650 yards per season since 2011

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6 minutes ago, FalconsIn2012 said:

And being honest, the defense is at least showing signs.  4 very good outings out of their last 5.  Next week should be a good measuring stick 

Doing well when there is nothing really at stake is different than performing when the stakes are significant.  I'm old enough to remember when we thought our 3 game winning streak to end 2018 was a good sign of things to come.

EDIT: I referred to pipeline twice.  1) When it pertained to OL coming into the NFL and 2) what Vick had spurred.

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16 minutes ago, vel said:

This is nothing but your last thread about moving on from Ryan, covered in a comparison cloak. But I'll bite. 

The Falcons, like 2012 pointed out, aren't in a full rebuild. The offense is still legit. It's extremely hindered by poor coaching/playcalling. I'd be willing to bet the offense with a modern OC can average 28 points per game with the current talent. That's not unreasonable. The defense needs a complete overhaul. They currently have four picks in the top 100. They could easily use all four on the very best defensive players at those picks and be headed in the right direction. Get a coach who can call defensive schemes that match today's football and you should improve from bottom three. 

This isn't a team devoid of talent. This is a team with no legit identity and some of the worst coaching in the NFL. Koetter is not calling plays that win in the current NFL landscape. DQ is trying to win with a static scheme that was figured out years ago without the talent that made it legendary to begin with. 

And just like in the other thread of his, I posted Koetter as a counter argument. Crickets.

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4 minutes ago, TheDirtyWordII said:

I've seen the advanced stats...I think they tell one story about the two.  And Ryan has always fared well with those, even if the teams he's led haven't.

But Rodgers 110-60-1 career record tells the other.  The career record that entails only two losing seasons (one his first year starting) v Ryan's 5 of the last 7 mark.

Ryan is very much respected player.  But Rodgers is significantly more feared.

Is Rodgers playing one on one basketball or something? 

Career record is a team stat. We had just last season Matt Ryan account for 8 TDs in back to back games, lead an offense that put up 37 or more points, and lost both games. 

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2 minutes ago, TheDirtyWordII said:

Doing well when there is nothing really at stake is different than performing when the stakes are significant.  I'm old enough to remember when we thought our 3 game winning streak to end 2018 was a good sign of things to come.

Momentum can’t possibly carry over when every single coordinator is fired and the schemes are changed.  Momentum is bred through familiarity and confidence.  You can’t have either when everything changed once the season ended

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1 minute ago, FalconFanSince1969 said:

Didn't answer either question. How do we move on from Ryan's contract and who do we replace him with? 

There is uncertainty there for sure.  And Ryan still might wind up the QB here for 2020 and even 2021.  But we have critical decisions to make with regard to major hires that will come due in the next 30-45 days.  And if they're made with Ryan as the epicenter of the franchise, that IMO is the wrong way to go.

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9 minutes ago, FalconsIn2012 said:

And being honest, the defense is at least showing signs.  4 very good outings out of their last 5.  Next week should be a good measuring stick 

Because they aren't being forced into a static defense primed for the picking. They still lack a lot of talent, but it's frustrating at how much they misjudged their talent. Oluokon should have been playing >50% of snaps all year. The guy had 11 tackles on 39 snaps. Yet, sits on the bench for majority of games. 

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Just now, vel said:

Because they aren't being forced into a static defense primed for the picking. They still lack a lot of talent, but it's frustrating at how much they misjudged their talent. Oluokon should have been playing >50% of snaps all year. The guy had 11 tackles on 39 snaps. Yet, sits on the bench for majority of games. 

Dre’s turnaround once we moved back to 4 man fronts was drastic

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Just now, TheDirtyWordII said:

There is uncertainty there for sure.  And Ryan still might wind up the QB here for 2020 and even 2021.  But we have critical decisions to make with regard to major hires that will come due in the next 30-45 days.  And if they're made with Ryan as the epicenter of the franchise, that IMO is the wrong way to go.

Still didn't answer.... Lol @ 'might'

Tell us, how do we move on from Ryan's contract. Stop dodging the question. 

 

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20 minutes ago, TheDirtyWordII said:

I'm happy to have the conversations that get spurred by my threads...but I didn't bring Ryan up.

I'd argue that the players lack of accountability has been as big a factor in the Falcons failures the last two seasons, something it seems AFMB is all to willing to perpetuate.  

You didn't have to. But you just went ahead and helped me out:

5 minutes ago, TheDirtyWordII said:

There is uncertainty there for sure.  And Ryan still might wind up the QB here for 2020 and even 2021.  But we have critical decisions to make with regard to major hires that will come due in the next 30-45 days.  And if they're made with Ryan as the epicenter of the franchise, that IMO is the wrong way to go.

This is no different than your other thread. You're just using the Panthers as an example. It's the same argument. You think a rebuild without Ryan is the move to make. You want a counter example? The Saints. Went 21-27 with Brees. He was older than current Matt Ryan and had the same cap woes we are looking at. They've average 10+ wins a year the last three. Should have been in a SB or two. Trending for a third deep playoff run with a 40 year old QB. 

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1 minute ago, vel said:

You didn't have to. But you just went ahead and helped me out:

This is no different than your other thread. You're just using the Panthers as an example. It's the same argument. You think a rebuild without Ryan is the move to make. You want a counter example? The Saints. Went 7-9 with Brees. He was older than current Matt Ryan and had the same cap woes we are looking at. They've average 10+ wins a year the last three. Should have been in a SB or two. Trending for a third deep playoff run with a 40 year old QB. 

He was posting the exact same stuff in the 2014 and 2015 seasons. Critical of Ryan. Ignoring every other variable. 

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2 minutes ago, vel said:

Is Rodgers playing one on one basketball or something? 

Career record is a team stat. We had just last season Matt Ryan account for 8 TDs in back to back games, lead an offense that put up 37 or more points, and lost both games. 

But QB's like Rodgers who are transcendent get associated with fact they win all the time.  It becomes part of the ethos of the franchise.  The locker room believes that because they've got 'that guy' and their opponent doesn't that their going to win.  Ryan?  2016 certainly was his nadir in terms of simply dominating...but aside from that season, despite his best efforts and top tier production, the Falcons losing more often than they win by a pretty significant margin isn't going to produce that type of confidence.

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Just now, JD dirtybird21 said:

He was posting the exact same stuff in the 2014 and 2015 seasons. Critical of Ryan. Ignoring every other variable. 

Yep. Then he got.....better coaching....and won an MVP. Koetter has this offense looking absolutely stupid. If anything, they should be the engine of this team still saddled by a poor defense. Instead, they are just as bad. 

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1 minute ago, TheDirtyWordII said:

But QB's like Rodgers who are transcendent get associated with fact they win all the time.  It becomes part of the ethos of the franchise.  The locker room believes that because they've got 'that guy' and their opponent doesn't that their going to win.  Ryan?  2016 certainly was his nadir in terms of simply dominating...but aside from that season, despite his best efforts and top tier production, the Falcons losing more often than they win by a pretty significant margin isn't going to produce that type of confidence.

Lmao you gotta be kidding me. So the Packers win because they rally around Rodgers? I guess the Bucs were winning last year because they had Fitzmagic? Like I'm not even going to waste my time. This was the worst argument I've ever seen in favor of a QB. 

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4 minutes ago, FalconFanSince1969 said:

Still didn't answer.... Lol @ 'might'

Tell us, how do we move on from Ryan's contract. Stop dodging the question. 

 

You can look to trade him much like the Panthers are looking to trade Cam.  I presented this in my other thread from last week if you want to take a gander.

The $9M net cap hit is ugly for sure...but since you're in an ugly cap situation already, it might be a good time to determine you'll take your cap medicine in one dose (2020) rather than multiple since 2021 also looks fairly ugly already.  Whatever Cam can fetch in trade, Ryan I'm sure could do the same, if not more.

That's one option, not the only option, but probably most radical.

 

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1 minute ago, vel said:

Lmao you gotta be kidding me. So the Packers win because they rally around Rodgers? I guess the Bucs were winning last year because they had Fitzmagic? Like I'm not even going to waste my time. This was the worst argument I've ever seen in favor of a QB. 

So you think it's Fitzpatrick's ability that has spurred the Dolphins to go 3-3 in their last 6 games (4-2 if they weren't robbed)?  Why do you think he keeps getting jobs?

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5 minutes ago, vel said:

Yep. Then he got.....better coaching....and won an MVP. Koetter has this offense looking absolutely stupid. If anything, they should be the engine of this team still saddled by a poor defense. Instead, they are just as bad. 

He got Shanahan.  Those guys don't grow on trees.  Improving on Koetter is one thing...securing Kyle Shanahan type coaching is another.

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4 minutes ago, TheDirtyWordII said:

You can look to trade him much like the Panthers are looking to trade Cam.  I presented this in my other thread from last week if you want to take a gander.

The $9M net cap hit is ugly for sure...but since you're in an ugly cap situation already, it might be a good time to determine you'll take your cap medicine in one dose (2020) rather than multiple since 2021 also looks fairly ugly already.  Whatever Cam can fetch in trade, Ryan I'm sure could do the same, if not more.

That's one option, not the only option, but probably most radical.

 

Except he would be 13 mil in dead money for 2021, 22 and 23 also..... Not exactly 'one dose' 

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