Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0
Dirtybird56

Koetter’s Scheme

61 posts in this topic

We know Koetter’s scheme can be difficult on a QB due to deep drops in the pocket, long developing routes, an abundance of route combinations that require threading the needle for completions, and a desire to block with just your 5 Olinemen.

However, does Koetter’s scheme typically at least create a powerful running attack? Well, no. Does it at least keep the quarterback protected? Well, no. (We’re second to last in hits given up to QB’s)

But it’s gotta do something good, right? Maybe it allows for easy yards after the catch. You gotta give your QB a break if you’re not going to protect him or provide a running game. Let’s check if it provides easy YAC

well, no. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The more you dig, the more you have to question why?  This has plagued Koetter for years

 

His passing offense requires longer throws into tighter windows.  That makes it harder on the quarterback and his line.  Also explains the lack of YAC

Koetter With  Bucs YAC:

“Can Arians possibly do something about Tampa Bay’s recent troubles gaining yards after the catch? The Buccaneers were last with 4.3 average YAC last season. This was the fourth time in six years that they have ranked last in YAC, and they were 29th and 27th the other two years. The problem goes back to before Jameis Winston was drafted four years ago. However, Arians’ recent offenses don’t suggest a lot of change here; those Cardinals offenses also tended to be near the bottom of the league in YAC.“

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 minutes ago, Dirtybird56 said:

We know Koetter’s scheme can be difficult on a QB due to deep drops in the pocket, long developing routes, an abundance of route combinations that require threading the needle for completions, and a desire to block with just your 5 Olinemen.

However, does Koetter’s scheme typically at least create a powerful running attack? Well, no. Does it at least keep the quarterback protected? Well, no.

But it’s gotta do something good, right? Maybe it allows for easy yards after the catch. You gotta give your QB a break if you’re not going to protect him or provide a running game. Let’s check if it provides easy YAC

well, no. 

Koetter did say he typically only uses plays Matt Ryan likes in the press conference right after he got hired.if Matt Ryan asked him to use safer plays he'd probably do it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You tend to get lots of YAC in the Saints type system where you design short dump off passes, slants, drags, etc. where your receiver catches the ball 3-4 yards past the LOS and have plenty of room ahead of them to run.  In the DK systems, you are taking more shots down field so unless you beat your man for 6, odds are it will be a deep incompletion or a deep completion with the receiver brought down immediately or stepping out along the sidelines.

I knew Hoop was going to thrive in this system, but he seems to be the only one thriving in this system.  DK needs to go.  Also...he isn't doing our line any favors and this is a feather in the cap of the "Fix the line and it will fix the run game" crowd:

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
31 minutes ago, slick0ne said:

Still scratching my head on why we brought this dude back. 

It’s a huge indictment on Quinn since it was his call but I agree.  

 

How does a guy guy that sees Kyle Shannahan as the beat OC long before anyone else did make such a knucklehead hire???

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Jesus said:

This was either all lies, or everyone is too incompetent to execute it:

https://www.si.com/nfl/2019/05/15/2019-rookie-camp-atlanta-falcons-mmqb-embed

 

 

Was just looking at another article from before the season and the first thing DK mentioned was balance (in terms of run/pass) and how balanced they would be because it's hard to scheme against...welp...

Jesus likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 minutes ago, Godzilla1985 said:

It’s a huge indictment on Quinn since it was his call but I agree.  

 

How does a guy guy that sees Kyle Shannahan as the beat OC long before anyone else did make such a knucklehead hire???

I'm about to jump on the conspiracy theorist train and say that Blank made Quinn fire Sark and told him Koetter is the guy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The sky is blue and the grass is green, we all knew when DK was hired it wasnt going to work. People are who they are. Due was 9-7, 5-11, and 5-11, another NFL failure collecting a check in Flowery Branch. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am not a big offensive guy but it seems like Koetter is still the "stretch in 1 dimension" type of guy where most of the NFL has moved on to a different type of system to cause conflict. When he first got hired all I remember reading about him is that he loves to employ the 4 verts concept. That only stretches the field vertically not horizontal. Most if not all NFL defenses know how to stop this, most of the modern schemes are designed to stop this, in fact this was the catalyst that got Belicheck and Saban to create pattern matching. So when watching Koetter it almost looks like he only has 1 trick. "My man has to beat your man if not play is dead" 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, slick0ne said:

I'm about to jump on the conspiracy theorist train and say that Blank made Quinn fire Sark and told him Koetter is the guy.

No doubt in my mind this is what happened and when it did, Quinn just quit mentally. He knew at that moment Blank would never let him run it the way he wanted too. And now we are at the point of no return. 

robertap likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, SPITFIRE said:

I am not a big offensive guy but it seems like Koetter is still the "stretch in 1 dimension" type of guy where most of the NFL has moved on to a different type of system to cause conflict. When he first got hired all I remember reading about him is that he loves to employ the 4 verts concept. That only stretches the field vertically not horizontal. Most if not all NFL defenses know how to stop this, most of the modern schemes are designed to stop this, in fact this was the catalyst that got Belicheck and Saban to create pattern matching. So when watching Koetter it almost looks like he only has 1 trick. "My man has to beat your man if not play is dead" 

Pro level DEs are way too fast today for this offense to work.

SPITFIRE and Schwarzwald like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
35 minutes ago, Godzilla1985 said:

It’s a huge indictment on Quinn since it was his call but I agree.  

 

How does a guy guy that sees Kyle Shannahan as the beat OC long before anyone else did make such a knucklehead hire???

I keep wondering this and unfortunately my common sense says maybe someone else made this push.....Ryan??.....McKay??....TD??? I find it hard to blv AB would’ve pushed this w/o someone else in exec mgt involved and the question you posed makes it hard to blv Quinn actually thought this was the way to go after seeing what KS accomplished......but.... we may never know. Maybe DQ will let someone info out if he gets axed but I seriously doubt that.  

slick0ne and Godzilla1985 like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Did you all forget Koetter's offense was full of curl/comeback that allowed DBs to ride the backs of our WRs? AND because the DBs right there with the receivers it allowed them to jump Ryan's passes. The deep routes take to long to develop and his infamous screens never worked. It was a MAJOR mistake bringing a guy back that runs a 90s Air Coryell offense and doesn't know how to make in-game adjustments.  Remember that?   It's more of the same thing when he was here before. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, Refried Beans said:

No doubt in my mind this is what happened and when it did, Quinn just quit mentally. He knew at that moment Blank would never let him run it the way he wanted too. And now we are at the point of no return. 

Man I was just playing, but if he truly did....SMH

Refried Beans likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think the same person that pushed "Welcome Back" Koetter onto Quinn is the same person who is pushing to hire another retread as HC who is basically the same thing as Koetter, Predictable and cant run the football. If we absolutely have to go that route fine, I'll deal with it but it's not my first choice.  If you keep buying from the same salesman dont complain when the products keep breaking. 

 

Edited by Refried Beans

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is why Dan Quinns position as Falcons HC is untenable.Hes allowed Koetter all this reign for exactly what.

Hes got a loaded gun but continues to fire blanks.

DQ sits back and watches.He must not want to coach here anymore even though the last 4 weeks him and the others have got the defense up to some sought of a decent standard.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

bringing back Koetter was literally the worst possible hire, besides bringing back Mularkey as OC (and we hilariously brought him back as anything).

I know a lot of us were lukewarm on Bevell but he would have been 100x better.

 

It's still mind blowing to me we scapegoated Sark with as bad of a defense last year as we have this year (for the most part), and more mindblowing we didn't keep either LaFleur or M. McDaniels when Kyle left, like we just let him gut our entire offensive staff to the bone.

DQ and Koetty gotta go.

Refried Beans likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, slick0ne said:

Still scratching my head on why we brought this dude back. 

It’s like we hired him just to fire him cause he should be gone after this year

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, SPITFIRE said:

I am not a big offensive guy but it seems like Koetter is still the "stretch in 1 dimension" type of guy where most of the NFL has moved on to a different type of system to cause conflict. When he first got hired all I remember reading about him is that he loves to employ the 4 verts concept. That only stretches the field vertically not horizontal. Most if not all NFL defenses know how to stop this, most of the modern schemes are designed to stop this, in fact this was the catalyst that got Belicheck and Saban to create pattern matching. So when watching Koetter it almost looks like he only has 1 trick. "My man has to beat your man if not play is dead" 

This.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, athell said:

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/coaches/KoetDi0.htm

Want to kill a few mins and realize we are getting exactly what we should have expected to get?  Check out the ranks on the rushing numbers and takeaways above.

His Rushing Yard totals are closely in lock-step with his Rushing Yard Attempts.  First part of his career in Jax, he rushed the ball a lot and had top-10 teams in rushing yards. This chart does not illustrate that his teams were inefficient at rushing, just that Koetter did not like to put the ball on the ground much later in his career. This chart is not an indictment on him at all. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0