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wartownfalcon

Braves sign Cole Hamels

19 posts in this topic

On 12/4/2019 at 1:44 PM, Skott Lee said:

This puts us over the top

How so?

We added Hamels and lost Keuchel and Tehran.

I like Hamels upside better either of the guys we lost but Hamels is old and coming off oblique injury.

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6 hours ago, g-dawg said:

How so?

We added Hamels and lost Keuchel and Tehran.

I like Hamels upside better either of the guys we lost but Hamels is old and coming off oblique injury.

Sarcasm..... I agree. He’s old and hasn’t been good in 3 or 4 years and he replaces Kikel who was better. Can’t believe people are excited about this especially when thats $18 m that could go to Donaldson or another big signee. 

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1 hour ago, Skott Lee said:

Sarcasm..... I agree. He’s old and hasn’t been good in 3 or 4 years and he replaces Kikel who was better. Can’t believe people are excited about this especially when thats $18 m that could go to Donaldson or another big signee. 

Cole Hamels was very good in his stint with the Cubs.

  • 39 GS, 218 IP, 202 H, 87 R, 80 ER, 23 HR, 79 BB, 217 SO, 3.30 ERA, 3.86 FIP

He is a big upgrade over Teheran and Keuchel.

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2 hours ago, AUTiger7222 said:

Cole Hamels was very good in his stint with the Cubs.

  • 39 GS, 218 IP, 202 H, 87 R, 80 ER, 23 HR, 79 BB, 217 SO, 3.30 ERA, 3.86 FIP

He is a big upgrade over Teheran and Keuchel.

His 2019 stat line is almost identical to Kikle and you say he’s an upgrade? And over two years is the same too. 

Edited by Skott Lee

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1 hour ago, Skott Lee said:

His 2019 stat line is almost identical to Kikle and you say he’s an upgrade? And over two years is the same too. 

He had a terrible end to his season with a terrible September but prior to September his ERA was 3.69 in 23 starts. That's a clear upgrade over Keuchel and Teheran.

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7 hours ago, AUTiger7222 said:

He had a terrible end to his season with a terrible September but prior to September his ERA was 3.69 in 23 starts. That's a clear upgrade over Keuchel and Teheran.

Well, I’m not going to argue with you my friend because neither one of us is right or wrong until it plays out. Championships may have their roots in free agency and drafts but they’re decided on the field. I surely hope you are right and that Cole can find some old Philly-days magic for us this year. 

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4 hours ago, Skott Lee said:

Well, I’m not going to argue with you my friend because neither one of us is right or wrong until it plays out. Championships may have their roots in free agency and drafts but they’re decided on the field. I surely hope you are right and that Cole can find some old Philly-days magic for us this year. 

You're right, we don't know how this will play out. Everything needs to be settled on the field and as has been seen for several decades, the free agent winner rarely wins the World Series.

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12 hours ago, AUTiger7222 said:

He had a terrible end to his season with a terrible September but prior to September his ERA was 3.69 in 23 starts. That's a clear upgrade over Keuchel and Teheran.

Keuchel had an ERA of 3.75 for us in 19 starts. Even with cherry-picked stats, that's a lateral move, not a clear upgrade. Having said that, Hamels was one of the better options for us since what we'll really miss from Keuchel is veteran leadership. It's not a coincidence that we were five games over .500 when we got him but 32 games over .500 at the end. Keuchel made a meaningful impact on this team. 

PS: Julio's ERA for the year was 3.81. Let's not exaggerate facts. In 2019, the two guys we lost were better than or on a par with Hamels in ERA, but I think most people would say that over their careers, Hamels is best. Personally, I'd rather have Keuchel back next year, but I don't make those calls.

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11 minutes ago, jidady said:

Keuchel had an ERA of 3.75 for us in 19 starts. Even with cherry-picked stats, that's a lateral move, not a clear upgrade. Having said that, Hamels was one of the better options for us since what we'll really miss from Keuchel is veteran leadership. It's not a coincidence that we were five games over .500 when we got him but 32 games over .500 at the end. Keuchel made a meaningful impact on this team. 

PS: Julio's ERA for the year was 3.81. Let's not exaggerate facts. In 2019, the two guys we lost were better than or on a par with Hamels in ERA, but I think most people would say that over their careers, Hamels is best. Personally, I'd rather have Keuchel back next year, but I don't make those calls.

What about Hamels veteran leadership and all his postseason success? Doesn't that count for something?

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38 minutes ago, jidady said:

Keuchel had an ERA of 3.75 for us in 19 starts. Even with cherry-picked stats, that's a lateral move, not a clear upgrade. Having said that, Hamels was one of the better options for us since what we'll really miss from Keuchel is veteran leadership. It's not a coincidence that we were five games over .500 when we got him but 32 games over .500 at the end. Keuchel made a meaningful impact on this team. 

PS: Julio's ERA for the year was 3.81. Let's not exaggerate facts. In 2019, the two guys we lost were better than or on a par with Hamels in ERA, but I think most people would say that over their careers, Hamels is best. Personally, I'd rather have Keuchel back next year, but I don't make those calls.

Can't completely agree with this. Cole Hamels - especially before returning from injury - was much better than Keuchel or Teheran in FIP, K/9, WAR (although he made more starts than Keuchel but less than Teheran), and a bunch of other useful stats. ERA doesn't tell the whole story.

I don't believe Hamels will be a game-changer for us, and I'm not super thrilled with paying him $18M (would have loved something closer to $12-15M), but I do think he was a better option than Keuchel and the ever-inconsistent -and-uber-frustrating-Teheran.

Whatever the case, we won't be leaning on him to be a top 2 pitcher for us - Soroka and Fried will hopefully carry that mantle while slotting in right behind them to inject some hopeful consistency along with Folty and the 5th starter to round out the rotation.

 

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3 hours ago, AUTiger7222 said:

You're right, we don't know how this will play out. Everything needs to be settled on the field and as has been seen for several decades, the free agent winner rarely wins the World Series.

We saw it last year with the Phillies. 

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54 minutes ago, ATL Fan in the DMV said:

Can't completely agree with this. Cole Hamels - especially before returning from injury - was much better than Keuchel or Teheran in FIP, K/9, WAR (although he made more starts than Keuchel but less than Teheran), and a bunch of other useful stats. ERA doesn't tell the whole story.

I don't believe Hamels will be a game-changer for us, and I'm not super thrilled with paying him $18M (would have loved something closer to $12-15M), but I do think he was a better option than Keuchel and the ever-inconsistent -and-uber-frustrating-Teheran.

Whatever the case, we won't be leaning on him to be a top 2 pitcher for us - Soroka and Fried will hopefully carry that mantle while slotting in right behind them to inject some hopeful consistency along with Folty and the 5th starter to round out the rotation.

I agree. I like what we've got in our top 4 arms in Soroka, Hamels, Fried, and Folty. We just need someone to step up and claim that 5th spot.

Edited by AUTiger7222

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1 hour ago, ATL Fan in the DMV said:

Can't completely agree with this. Cole Hamels - especially before returning from injury - was much better than Keuchel or Teheran in FIP, K/9, WAR (although he made more starts than Keuchel but less than Teheran), and a bunch of other useful stats. ERA doesn't tell the whole story.

I don't believe Hamels will be a game-changer for us, and I'm not super thrilled with paying him $18M (would have loved something closer to $12-15M), but I do think he was a better option than Keuchel and the ever-inconsistent -and-uber-frustrating-Teheran.

Whatever the case, we won't be leaning on him to be a top 2 pitcher for us - Soroka and Fried will hopefully carry that mantle while slotting in right behind them to inject some hopeful consistency along with Folty and the 5th starter to round out the rotation.

 

I don't mind the price. It's basically a full season version of what we paid Keuchel. Proven pitchers get paid in this league. I prefer that to spend $8 million on the Gausman types. Or the Wheeler nonsense that's almost entirely projection.

My concern with Hamels is that he suffered an oblique injury and shoulder fatigue last year. He swears that his struggles were mechanical, but he turns 36 this month. As such, he's a fairly large risk. If we get the Hamels of the first half of last year, he's right behind Soroka as our best pitcher. So, I accept the risk, but I prefer the known commodity of Keuchel, who fit in well with the team. It's the same reason why, all other things being equal, I'd rather have Donaldson back.

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54 minutes ago, jidady said:

I don't mind the price. It's basically a full season version of what we paid Keuchel. Proven pitchers get paid in this league. I prefer that to spend $8 million on the Gausman types. Or the Wheeler nonsense that's almost entirely projection.

My concern with Hamels is that he suffered an oblique injury and shoulder fatigue last year. He swears that his struggles were mechanical, but he turns 36 this month. As such, he's a fairly large risk. If we get the Hamels of the first half of last year, he's right behind Soroka as our best pitcher. So, I accept the risk, but I prefer the known commodity of Keuchel, who fit in well with the team. It's the same reason why, all other things being equal, I'd rather have Donaldson back.

I guess I'm more concerned by Dallas Keuchel's struggles at the end of the season and in the playoffs because I saw them first hand and didn't see Hamel's struggles. I'm also concerned about Keuchel's extremely poor numbers against RHB. RHB really had their way with him which is why it was even more frustrating that he got to start twice against the right-handed heavy Cardinals lineup.

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14 minutes ago, jidady said:

I don't mind the price. It's basically a full season version of what we paid Keuchel. Proven pitchers get paid in this league. I prefer that to spend $8 million on the Gausman types. Or the Wheeler nonsense that's almost entirely projection.

My concern with Hamels is that he suffered an oblique injury and shoulder fatigue last year. He swears that his struggles were mechanical, but he turns 36 this month. As such, he's a fairly large risk. If we get the Hamels of the first half of last year, he's right behind Soroka as our best pitcher. So, I accept the risk, but I prefer the known commodity of Keuchel, who fit in well with the team. It's the same reason why, all other things being equal, I'd rather have Donaldson back.

Agreed on the first paragraph.

Fair point on the last paragraph. He's definitely a candidate for Father Time to totally smite his pitching ability rendering Hamels a pumpkin, but we shall see.

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