FalconsIn2012

Scheme & Coaching Vs Talent

48 posts in this topic

Heading into the season, if I told you the 49ers OL/RB & WR would be what you see below, what would you predict?  Then compare to our talent.  Then look at production.  
 

All you can say is WTF!!!!  Coaching and drafting for scheme are just as important as talent in today’s NFL.  I honestly think heading into the year you’d say only Kittles and McGlincey are advantages.  Every other position we have the better talent

• OL: 49ers/Falcons

LT:    Skule vs Matthews (advantage Falcons)

LG:    Tomlinson vs Brown (Falcons)

C:      Richburg vs Mack (Falcons)

RG:    Person vs Carp (Falcons)

RT:     MCGlinchey vs McGary (49ers)

 

•  RB:    Brenda vs Freeman (Falcons)

•  WR:   Samuel, Sanders, Bourne Vs Julio, Oliver, Sanu or Gage (Falcons)

TE:       Kittles vs Hooper (Wash)

QB:      Jimmy G vs Ryan (Falcons)

 

Production: 

• 49ers: 780 plays, 4,536 Total Yards

     ¥.  350 Pass Attempts, 2,800 Yards   
     ¥.  400 Rushing Attempts; 1,800 Yards 
     ¥.  PPG: 29.1 (2nd in NFL)

    

• Falcons:  810 Plays, 4,450 Yards

     ¥.  515 Pass Attempts, 3,500 Yards   
     ¥.  253 Rushing Attempts; 890 Yards 
     ¥.  PPG: 21.7 PPG (17th in NFL)

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Talent on paper vs execution on the field. This is the problem when it comes to stats and other analytical means of measuring the game. The actual game is the human element when it comes to the strategy of the game plan. Same with the referee's the human element and errors is what make football the greatest team sport there is. Scheme/ system is just a framework to guide gameday adjustments and scripted plays for the players. Individual technique and the execution of said technique on game day is where you see the production. The contest between defense and offense comes down to who makes the mistake. Offense (everyone except Dirk ) try to exploit a player or position and force to the player to evaluate the rules for their system. For example, in a game this past week end I called 77mod (cover 7 mod coverage(man match quarters) to both sides of the field). The offense only saw that we were in a 2 high shell for most of the game. They assumed the smash concept was going to be open, my corner play his rules (man on #1 if route > 5 yrds else zone to deep quaters). What happens is that caused the a interception because the QB did not anticipate the corner dropping. Few plays later same corner beat on a go route in the endzone because he did not play the ball in phase. Nothing changed in the scheme, only thing that change was the mental lapse of technique. It is the same thing in the pro's just at a higher speed and higher threshold. 

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10 minutes ago, Cole World said:

I like me some Shanahan but a lot of their success is attributed to their defense.

Run the ball and play good defense. (49ers ranks #2 in rushing and have a top defense)

They have run fewer plays, have more yards and score 7 more ppg.  With way less talent

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17 minutes ago, Cole World said:

I like me some Shanahan but a lot of their success is attributed to their defense.

Run the ball and play good defense. (49ers ranks #2 in rushing and have a top defense)

Their defense is dominant for sure, but their offense is incredible especially their run game.  

Cole World, THEHEADCOACH and Rings like this

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I would have said you're underating the 49ers and the Falcons only have 2 clear advantages at LT & WR. QB is slightly in our favor as Jimmy G is more than capable.

The RBBC they have is a lot stronger than what people are giving credit. Teco, Mostert & Brieda all have 4.3 type of speed. McKinnon even had this. It's why I say Shanny gets the guys he wants and uses it to it's fullest advantage. Those speedy, one-cut guys make the difference in the outside zone. They can turn 0 gains into 10-20 yard gashes by hitting the hole fast or getting outside quickly. 

Kittle being an excellent run blocking TE just adds icing on the cake.

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39 minutes ago, FalconsIn2012 said:

Heading into the season, if I told you the 49ers OL/RB & WR would be what you see below, what would you predict?  Then compare to our talent.  Then look at production.  
 

All you can say is WTF!!!!  Coaching and drafting for scheme are just as important as talent in today’s NFL.  I honestly think heading into the year you’d say only Kittles and McGlincey are advantages.  Every other position we have the better talent

• OL: 49ers/Falcons

LT:    Skule vs Matthews (advantage Falcons)

LG:    Tomlinson vs Brown (Falcons)

C:      Richburg vs Mack (Falcons)

RG:    Person vs Carp (Falcons)

RT:     MCGlinchey vs McGary (49ers)

 

•  RB:    Brenda vs Freeman (Falcons)

•  WR:   Samuel, Sanders, Bourne Vs Julio, Oliver, Sanu or Gage (Falcons)

TE:       Kittles vs Hooper (Wash)

QB:      Jimmy G vs Ryan (Falcons)

 

Production: 

• 49ers: 780 plays, 4,536 Total Yards

     ¥.  350 Pass Attempts, 2,800 Yards   
     ¥.  400 Rushing Attempts; 1,800 Yards 
     ¥.  PPG: 29.1 (2nd in NFL)

    

• Falcons:  810 Plays, 4,450 Yards

     ¥.  515 Pass Attempts, 3,500 Yards   
     ¥.  253 Rushing Attempts; 890 Yards 
     ¥.  PPG: 21.7 PPG (17th in NFL)

I think the most important thing is coaching/scheme. They are tied together. Followed by talent. 
 

you can mask talent deficiencies with scheme/great coaching. 
 

there are some exceptions howecer like Brady/Manning that can override 

ATLSlobberKnockers likes this

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This makes me think of a something I heard Bill Belichik say in an interview. "Great players can't overcome bad coaching." I think about that every time I watch the Falcons. The talent is there but the coaching isn't

The Don™ and Rings like this

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29 minutes ago, kiwifalcon said:

Balance obviously we’ve been behind a lot of those games but even so never ever give up running the football.

Once you do that for the most part your toast.

This is a huge problem with our offense.  It is so tilted towards pass it is absurd.  We are far and away the most pass happy team in the league (808 total snaps, 555 pass plays called or 68.7%).

What's funny is that play call percentage puts us in a pretty significant group...

Dolphins, Bengals, Giants, Chiefs round out the top 5.  Outside of the Chiefs, the rest of those teams will be picking very early in next years draft...

 

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1 hour ago, SPITFIRE said:

in a game this past week end I called 77mod (cover 7 mod coverage(man match quarters) to both sides of the field). The offense only saw that we were in a 2 high shell for most of the game. They assumed the smash concept was going to be open, my corner play his rules (man on #1 if route > 5 yrds else zone to deep quaters). What happens is that caused the a interception because the QB did not anticipate the corner dropping.

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1 hour ago, SPITFIRE said:

Talent on paper vs execution on the field. This is the problem when it comes to stats and other analytical means of measuring the game. The actual game is the human element when it comes to the strategy of the game plan. Same with the referee's the human element and errors is what make football the greatest team sport there is. Scheme/ system is just a framework to guide gameday adjustments and scripted plays for the players. Individual technique and the execution of said technique on game day is where you see the production. The contest between defense and offense comes down to who makes the mistake. Offense (everyone except Dirk ) try to exploit a player or position and force to the player to evaluate the rules for their system. For example, in a game this past week end I called 77mod (cover 7 mod coverage(man match quarters) to both sides of the field). The offense only saw that we were in a 2 high shell for most of the game. They assumed the smash concept was going to be open, my corner play his rules (man on #1 if route > 5 yrds else zone to deep quaters). What happens is that caused the a interception because the QB did not anticipate the corner dropping. Few plays later same corner beat on a go route in the endzone because he did not play the ball in phase. Nothing changed in the scheme, only thing that change was the mental lapse of technique. It is the same thing in the pro's just at a higher speed and higher threshold. 

Good breakdown. I’ll pay closer attention to your posts in the future.

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2 hours ago, FalconsIn2012 said:

Heading into the season, if I told you the 49ers OL/RB & WR would be what you see below, what would you predict?  Then compare to our talent.  Then look at production.  
 

All you can say is WTF!!!!  Coaching and drafting for scheme are just as important as talent in today’s NFL.  I honestly think heading into the year you’d say only Kittles and McGlincey are advantages.  Every other position we have the better talent

• OL: 49ers/Falcons

LT:    Skule vs Matthews (advantage Falcons)

LG:    Tomlinson vs Brown (Falcons)

C:      Richburg vs Mack (Falcons)

RG:    Person vs Carp (Falcons)

RT:     MCGlinchey vs McGary (49ers)

 

•  RB:    Brenda vs Freeman (Falcons)

•  WR:   Samuel, Sanders, Bourne Vs Julio, Oliver, Sanu or Gage (Falcons)

TE:       Kittles vs Hooper (Wash)

QB:      Jimmy G vs Ryan (Falcons)

 

Production: 

• 49ers: 780 plays, 4,536 Total Yards

     ¥.  350 Pass Attempts, 2,800 Yards   
     ¥.  400 Rushing Attempts; 1,800 Yards 
     ¥.  PPG: 29.1 (2nd in NFL)

    

• Falcons:  810 Plays, 4,450 Yards

     ¥.  515 Pass Attempts, 3,500 Yards   
     ¥.  253 Rushing Attempts; 890 Yards 
     ¥.  PPG: 21.7 PPG (17th in NFL)

The only set of stats that matter in this whole thread is the run/pass balance. We literally pass twice as much as we run. That’s just not sustainable. We can blame running backs, we can blame the OL but how can you hope to establish a rhythm to a running game without simply feeding the backs the ball? 
one other number that would be interesting is time of possession 

so to answer your question is both scheme and coaching. What’s odd is the Air Coryell is based upon having a successful running game. Guess DK forgot that 

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11 minutes ago, SPITFIRE said:

Hey dont gas me up man, I am a young coach(35) that is about it i just study this stuff a lot. 

Hey bro, what kind of fronts and line games you mixing in with that Cover 7?

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12 minutes ago, SPITFIRE said:

Hey dont gas me up man, I am a young coach(35) that is about it i just study this stuff a lot. 

You deserve it.  You are a refreshing poster in this sea of crap here.  I mean that, you should post more.  I enjoy your content.

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46 minutes ago, athell said:

Just gonna leave this here as well...

Jesus Crice I didn't know it was that bad but when you put it all up together, it's a shame to see what Matt has been surrounded by. One top ten rushing attack in 2016 and one top ten defense in 2011. Best the defense ever got was 2010-2012. Other than that, if Matt Ryan didn't show up, he had no help to rely on. 

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1 minute ago, vel said:

Jesus Crice I didn't know it was that bad but when you put it all up together, it's a shame to see what Matt has been surrounded by. One top ten rushing attack in 2016 and one top ten defense in 2011. Best the defense ever got was 2010-2012. Other than that, if Matt Ryan didn't show up, he had no help to rely on. 

This is what I'm saying man!  Matt is in the middle of a forrest fire with 1 extinguisher!  Get this man some help!

vel and FalconsIn2012 like this

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8 minutes ago, athell said:

This is what I'm saying man!  Matt is in the middle of a forrest fire with 1 extinguisher!  Get this man some help!

Trying to stop an avalanche with one shovel and my man never blinked and people have been wanting him gone the entire time. 

Crazy to imagine what people would think of him if he had Kyle as his OC from 2015 to the end of his career. 

athell and FalconsIn2012 like this

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