FalconFan1st

How to fix a horrid O line?

69 posts in this topic

2 hours ago, Rings said:

Ryan's worst two years in sacks per game were in 2013 and 2019, both under Dirk.  He is being sacked 1.5 more times per game this year and his career average.  I posted this in another thread.  Since 2016 it's the least amount of 2 tight ends sets called, most sacks per game, longest time from snap to pass, lowest yards per attempt, lowest QBR.  This is more on scheme and play calling than anything else.

Good stuff man. Proves a lot of people's points about the Koetter offense. It's an ancient offense compared to today's NFL 

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1 hour ago, kiwifalcon said:

Lol and coaching but we have no talent and TD can’t draft oline yet KS gets Falcon hand me downs is still able to run his offense effectively.

When the 2’ in front of the face crowd get there noses off the glass and widen there gaze maybe we might make some head way here.

I don't think TD gets a complete pass overall but Shanny's got the same Mike Person who couldn't snap a ball to Ryan in '15 and a bunch of no names on offense besides Kittle but still putting up almost 30 points per game.

It's ridiculous man. 

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2 hours ago, Rings said:

This.  We get a WCO OC next year and suddenly the line looks better, Ryan looks better, WRs will look better being schemed open vs just winning 1on1s and Freeman looks to have found the fountain of youth.

It’ll help for sure I do think some players need a rocket though.

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1 hour ago, The Don™ said:

I don't think TD gets a complete pass overall but Shanny's got the same Mike Person who couldn't snap a ball to Ryan in '15 and a bunch of no names on offense besides Kittle but still putting up almost 30 points per game.

It's ridiculous man. 

Agreed no one walks away from this horse manure clear no one does.

Its why the biggest move for me right now is what AB is about too make on the decision on whose running the on and off field for the Falcons going foward.

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10 minutes ago, kiwifalcon said:

It’ll help for sure I do think some players need a rocket though.

Freeman looked like he ran a 5.2 in his rookie year under Dirk as well.  I'm not ready to write him off yet.  Put him back in an outside zone scheme like Florida State, like Shanny, like Sark...and I promise he looks faster.

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2 hours ago, Schwarzwald said:

As a backup? Maybe.

If he re-signs for dirt cheap and we go back to a better scheme? Ok.

Honestly I got no problem it’s Schweitzer’s ability to backup multiple positions.For a 6th rounder I think depth and a spot player is about what he’ll be going foward as a player.I mean he’s on 2 mill odd this year and you probably right he won’t be a starter and that indicates your not investing much resourcing in him.

Though like you say I’d be looking to keep him.

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Fire the people who are picking the o-line, simple solution. Find the one variable that has been there the whole time you havent had a good o-line and remove it. Rich McKay and whole front office and scouts need to go. 

*Old Pappy Falcon* likes this

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15 hours ago, The Don™ said:

Scheme, playing to strengths/making it easier for players, and establishing an identity and sticking with it.

We didn't have some uber-talented OL in 2016. We just had an OC who knew how to scheme to players' strengths, attack opponents' weaknesses and establish a modern NFL offense identity. Yes, talent is important but the Cowboys were touted to having an elite OL a few years ago and they can't get past the divisional round and it's not because they don't have great talent on the OL. 

Talent isn't the end all be all. Everybody is talented in today's NFL. You can't just run past people anymore, put your hand up because you're open and catch a ball uncontested. Everybody is a supremely, talented athlete. You gotta get creative now. Scheme and the right playcaller gets you over the hump. Why do you think so many NFL games week in and week out are so close? You can get away with street ball in college. Not in the NFL.

When Dirk was hired, Quinn said "we're sticking with the outside zone scheme". OK? So Dirk was hired to run a WCO/Shanny/Sark scheme when he's always been known for seven step drops and "4 verticals". Oh, we also hire Mularkey to bring a power "punch" into the run scheme. We have barely seen a hint of the former scheme under Koetter's rule. He consistently can't outscheme anybody, leaves Ryan and a rookie RT on an island with his seven step drops and long developing routes, and pretty much requires his WRs to "beat the man in front of you" because creativity is thrown out the window with Dirk.

Sark at least tried. IDK what Dirk is doing and what Quinn saw in him.

 

(Screaming) THISSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 

Why is it so hard to match the right scheme with the right players? 

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15 hours ago, FalconsIn2012 said:

I think the line is better than it appears.  An OC who schemes to protect the line would make a world of difference

Always excuses for TD, we've had a number of OC's and line coaches yet the OL is always an issue besides some very rare exceptions.

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17 hours ago, Doctor Kildare said:

Fire the GM and his scouts who have proven over 12 years that they are not good at assembling line talent.

You are right Professor!!!! How's Ginger and Gilligan???

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Look at our first play of the game Thursday.  Start with 1 back who goes in motion leaving an empty backfield and IIRC, no tight end on the end.  We went clear pass with no help to the line.  We know we have a weak line that gives no time to make more than 2 progressions.  Why are we sending 5 players out on routes?  

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On 12/1/2019 at 6:58 PM, The Don™ said:

Scheme, playing to strengths/making it easier for players, and establishing an identity and sticking with it.

We didn't have some uber-talented OL in 2016. We just had an OC who knew how to scheme to players' strengths, attack opponents' weaknesses and establish a modern NFL offense identity. Yes, talent is important but the Cowboys were touted to having an elite OL a few years ago and they can't get past the divisional round and it's not because they don't have great talent on the OL. 

Talent isn't the end all be all. Everybody is talented in today's NFL. You can't just run past people anymore, put your hand up because you're open and catch a ball uncontested. Everybody is a supremely, talented athlete. You gotta get creative now. Scheme and the right playcaller gets you over the hump. Why do you think so many NFL games week in and week out are so close? You can get away with street ball in college. Not in the NFL.

When Dirk was hired, Quinn said "we're sticking with the outside zone scheme". OK? So Dirk was hired to run a WCO/Shanny/Sark scheme when he's always been known for seven step drops and "4 verticals". Oh, we also hire Mularkey to bring a power "punch" into the run scheme. We have barely seen a hint of the former scheme under Koetter's rule. He consistently can't outscheme anybody, leaves Ryan and a rookie RT on an island with his seven step drops and long developing routes, and pretty much requires his WRs to "beat the man in front of you" because creativity is thrown out the window with Dirk.

Sark at least tried. IDK what Dirk is doing and what Quinn saw in him.

 

i agree. they first need to figure out scheme and what they really want to do along the OL, then, and only then, can they draft what they need. . . and don't think patching up the OL with late draftees will do it, either. Some gems can be found late but that shouldn't be the norm.

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For all of the talk about DK, DQ & TD..some of which (a lot )is warranted.....some of (also a lot) of it is not.

One guy who does not get near enough blame is Chris Morgan the offensive line coach.

No matter if you run an inside or outside zone...the principles are the same...people here make too big of distinction between the 2 when they are fundamentally the same thing.....pass blocking is still pass blocking and we have struggled with communication upfront in the passing and running game..and that falls on the position coach.

Far far too often we are seeing guys being slow to recognize defenders in their area.....which is what a zone scheme is designed for....you block an area and not a man

It has been nearly everyone from Matthews to Mack to the rookie to the 872 guard combinations that we have used out there.... (which is part of the issue to be fair) but communication issues are the direct result of positional coaches not doing their job.

There has been a pretty fair share of guys getting beat physically but the offensive line has been beat mentally as often or more times than it has been physical beat.

 

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