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So how exactly did the Saints do this?


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1 hour ago, mattyicefalcon said:

And retained the same supporting cordinators.....consistency at top management brings in such results. Also, let's not forget they got our local home grown talen Alvin Kamara in late rounds and Falcons just snoozed off!

Dimitroff/ Dan Quinn have to be fired.

 

Excellent point on our brain trust snoozing!

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1 minute ago, BUBBASBEANS said:

Excellent point on our brain trust snoozing!

TD snoozing on nearby talent drives me up the wall. Just did a nearly pointless exercise but it kinda makes my point. If you took the very next SEC player in the draft for the first 4 rounds going back to 2010 (I think the last 3 rounds are all luck) regardless of position here is what you get:

Kareem Jackson, Rennie Curran, Geno Atkins

Aldon Smith, Joe Barksdale

Casey Hayward, Ben Jones

Sharrif Floyd, Lacy, Marcus Lattimore, Sanders Commings

Mike Evans, Jordan Matthews, Tre Mason, Bruce Ellington

Gurley, B McKinney, Chris Conley, Jalston Fowler

Ryan Kelly, Cyrus Jones, Jordan Jenkins, Pharoah Cooper

Tre White, Anzalone, Sprinkle

Taven Bryan, Guice, Ronnie Harrison, jmon Moore

Jeff Simmons, Jawaan Taylor, Christian Miller

 

Whew that’s a lot of runnings backs. I almost adjusted to take the next player but kept it consistent. Also could have kept our current SEC guys but once again kept the exercise consistent. I may go back and see what the picks would have been if we never traded up or just kept all original picks. 
 

So obviously this roster isn’t possible based on this method because all team scouting is not equal. That isn’t the point. The point is local talent taken right after our current picks with no regard for position or need still yields a formidable team. Certainly isn’t inspiring when our GM nuts all over a prospect and has to trade up. As if he’s some scouting savant. 
 

This also brought to my attention how rare it’s been that we actually draft an offensive player in the second round.

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I would also like to point out over the last 10 drafts we have made 34 in the first 4 rounds. 6 picks less than what we started with. Unless it’s a QB I have a hard time justifying trading up. You can draft stars at several positions but without that depth you can expect them to go to waste. Often taking up large chunks of payroll because when you are so devoid of depth it is inconceivable to let them walk. They inevitably underperform in comparison to their rookie deals or even if they play at a star level the surplus value they brought being a cheap asset is gone. That money cannot be allocated elsewhere.

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On 12/1/2019 at 0:09 PM, BUBBASBEANS said:

One of the main factors is fact they have had continuity with a HC who knows what it takes to win in NFL. Don’t like the guy but he is committed to winning. 

That being said, after their SB win, he hit his three years of 7-9 and has not made it back to the super bowl since.  Constant change in roster, same QB, but same HC.  I honestly feel Quinn should stay and maybe Dimitroff should go.  Maybe give Quinn more power like other coaches get, a la BB, Reid, and and Payton.  Having this be HIS team without conflict could help get it back in the direction we were headed in 2016.  

I think we might need to get rid of a few players this offseason such as Freeman and cut others to create cap, but either way we need this team to get back to consistency and quit changing coordinators and coaches every year or two.

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2 hours ago, federicofalcon2 said:

That being said, after their SB win, he hit his three years of 7-9 and has not made it back to the super bowl since.  Constant change in roster, same QB, but same HC.  I honestly feel Quinn should stay and maybe Dimitroff should go.  Maybe give Quinn more power like other coaches get, a la BB, Reid, and and Payton.  Having this be HIS team without conflict could help get it back in the direction we were headed in 2016.  

I think we might need to get rid of a few players this offseason such as Freeman and cut others to create cap, but either way we need this team to get back to consistency and quit changing coordinators and coaches every year or two.

There is no denying consistency (of quality leadership) is a huge plus.  The revolving door hasn’t helped anything. 

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3 hours ago, Akod2017 said:

TD snoozing on nearby talent drives me up the wall. Just did a nearly pointless exercise but it kinda makes my point. If you took the very next SEC player in the draft for the first 4 rounds going back to 2010 (I think the last 3 rounds are all luck) regardless of position here is what you get:

Kareem Jackson, Rennie Curran, Geno Atkins

Aldon Smith, Joe Barksdale

Casey Hayward, Ben Jones

Sharrif Floyd, Lacy, Marcus Lattimore, Sanders Commings

Mike Evans, Jordan Matthews, Tre Mason, Bruce Ellington

Gurley, B McKinney, Chris Conley, Jalston Fowler

Ryan Kelly, Cyrus Jones, Jordan Jenkins, Pharoah Cooper

Tre White, Anzalone, Sprinkle

Taven Bryan, Guice, Ronnie Harrison, jmon Moore

Jeff Simmons, Jawaan Taylor, Christian Miller

 

Whew that’s a lot of runnings backs. I almost adjusted to take the next player but kept it consistent. Also could have kept our current SEC guys but once again kept the exercise consistent. I may go back and see what the picks would have been if we never traded up or just kept all original picks. 
 

So obviously this roster isn’t possible based on this method because all team scouting is not equal. That isn’t the point. The point is local talent taken right after our current picks with no regard for position or need still yields a formidable team. Certainly isn’t inspiring when our GM nuts all over a prospect and has to trade up. As if he’s some scouting savant. 
 

This also brought to my attention how rare it’s been that we actually draft an offensive player in the second round.

Man there is no denying the NFL ready talent just in Athens much less SEC as whole.  Look at how many guys BB pulls out of there!!  It’s almost like we try to prove we don’t need them.  I’d be in close communion w Kirby and a lot of these other SEC coaches (not to exclusion of evaluating other players) but doesn’t it make sense that by having the close relationships, knowing the character etc of these guys you’re bettering your opportunity to grab a high upside player that may be somewhat of a sleeper once you get past the big names each year??  I’m not one of the UGA/SEC homers either.  It’s just reality!  Open your eyes if you’re TD etc........how many NFL studs get consistently drafted out of Utah and Fresno State in comparison. Rant over!

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On ‎12‎/‎01‎/‎2019 at 5:41 PM, Iron Saint said:

 

Ryan did very well in 2013, we were 4th in both points and yards. It wasn’t until Payton (after getting bodied twice in 2013) insisted on a “Seattle-esque” defense that Ryan’s defense struggled. In 2013 the defense gave up 19 ppg. After the unnecessary philosophy change forced upon his defense, they gave up 26.5 ppg in 2014 and fell to 28th in the league.

In addition to the forced philosophy change in 2014, our defense saw an alarming amount of roster turnover, specifically in defensive leadership. Jonathan Vilma, Will Smith, Malcolm Jenkins, and Roman Harper (all defensive captains at one point) either retired, were released, or allowed to leave in free agency following the 2013 season. Between the four, they had a combined 29 years experience in a Saints uniform alone. After they left, the longest tenured defensive players in the locker room were Junior Galette and Patrick Robinson, both only having 4 years each in the NFL period.

We tried to upgrade the FS position with Byrd which everyone agreed was desperately needed but injuries derailed that from him ever getting back to his former All-Pro self and we had to eat a lot of money as a result in addition to the Graham and Galette ordeals.

The combination of jettisoning all the experience leadership and trying to change the defensive philosophy was what kickstarted the 7-9 train but what continued it was the misses on picks (Anthony, Jean-Baptiste, Kikaha, ect) and whiffs on free agents (Byrd, Browner, Bailey, ect).

 

Facts,

That and they focus on shutting down the run game first and getting after the QB. Their dbs have been playing lights out which flusters visiting qbs. 

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33 minutes ago, BUBBASBEANS said:

There is no denying consistency (of quality leadership) is a huge plus.  The revolving door hasn’t helped anything. 

True, and if you think about it, you look at teams like the Patriots and the offense has run around 2 things, Brady and McDaniels.  There have been a few years where Josh wasn't there, but they kept the same scheme and style players suited to make Brady a success.  Now defense has this team propelling for another SB, but the consistency is there from top down.  

Looking at Shanahan, his team isn't a great offensive success the falcons were in 2016, but their defense has taken it to the league and made their team elite even if it's just for this season. 

In DQs 5 years we have had three OCs, and three DCs.  and the only constant is that after 2 years, we cut the OC, and after 1.5 years DQ takes over (until this year when after 8 games he gave up playcalling). 

We need a fixture along the management to ensure we aren't changing schemes so much that we end up paying players huge money that don't work in the scheme we run.  Matt Ryan has had to endure so many OC changes in his career, and he knows so many that he can adjust, but why not stick to the one he works best in.

I have heard and read that his style is best suited for a west coast offense and I'm not sure if that means quick passing, but from what I have seen, either we get excellent blocking, or Ryan's offense needs to let him get the balls into the hands of his playmakers right away. 

So many changes, we need to stop altering so much that a new regime and style causes us to have to start over every 2 years.

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8 hours ago, Summerhill said:

Additionally, I would submit: 

  • Terron Armstead/Andrus Peat: Armstead was the #75 pick in the 2013 draft and was likely seen as a project coming out of Arkansas-Pine Bluff. He started 2 games at LT as a rookie. He then started 14 games at LT in 2014. Andrus Peat was the #13 pick in the 2015 draft. He was a college LT. I don't know much about the Saints inner organization, but I have to think they picked Peat to upgrade Armstead at LT. That's what [url=https://www.canalstreetchronicles.com/2015/4/30/8525867/2015-nfl-draft-results-saints-andrus-peat-13th-overall]analysis[/url] at the time seemed to think. Peat never took a snap at LT and Armstead blossomed into a Pro Bowler. If this were the Falcons, I can't help but think they would have tried multiple times to stick Peat in at LT to justify their draft pick. The Saints let the best players play. 

That Canal Street Chronicles article (as others on there) is speculative tripe written by fans, not actual sports reporters.

Peat was not drafted to succeed Armstead. Peat was originally drafted as insurance for Strief at RT who in 2015 was entering his 10th year in the NFL and was originally slated to be our swing tackle (as Strief started out as in 2006) in the event of any injuries to Armstead or Strief. However, we did have a hole at LG at the time and Peat ended up getting inserted there to get him on the field and it just stuck.

Armstead only started 2 games as a rookie in 2013 because he was stuck behind Charles Brown, a former 2nd round pick in 2010, and since we were winning the majority of our games, Payton wasn’t just going to bench his starting LT for a green rookie from a small school. However after the Week 15 game in St. Louis where Brown was beaten mercilessly, Payton did finally bench him.

Peat has played LT in stints, but only due to injury to Armstead.

3 hours ago, NYCFalc said:

Demario Davis is really the only real contributing FA they hit on and you can add Malcom Brown is playing well too.

Larry Warford says hi.

32 minutes ago, MoFalconsFan56 said:

They cut guys like Cooks. We make ours “falcons for life”. Nobody makes tough decisions and we do what’s best for the player rather than best for the organization. 

We traded Cooks for a 1st round pick, didn’t cut him.

30 minutes ago, Osiruz said:

Facts,

That and they focus on shutting down the run game first and getting after the QB. Their dbs have been playing lights out which flusters visiting qbs. 

Yessir. But man, there were some years where we couldn’t stop the run for ****. I do not miss those days at all.

Edited by Iron Saint
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10 minutes ago, Iron Saint said:

That Canal Street Chronicles article (as others on there) is speculative tripe written by fans, not actual sports reporters.

Peat was not drafted to succeed Armstead. Peat was originally drafted as insurance for Strief at RT who in 2015 was entering his 10th year in the NFL and was originally slated to be our swing tackle (as Strief started out as in 2006) in the event of any injuries to Armstead or Strief. However, we did have a hole at LG at the time and Peat ended up getting inserted there to get him on the field and it just stuck.

Armstead only started 2 games as a rookie in 2013 because he was stuck behind Charles Brown, a former 2nd round pick in 2010, and since we were winning the majority of our games, Payton wasn’t just going to bench his starting LT for a green rookie from a small school. However after the Week 15 game in St. Louis where Brown was beaten mercilessly, Payton did finally bench him.

Peat has played LT in stints, but only due to injury to Armstead.

Larry Warford says hi.

We traded Cooks for a 1st round pick, didn’t cut him.

Yessir. But man, there were some years where we couldn’t stop the run for ****. I do not miss those days at all.

Oh yeah, duh lol

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16 minutes ago, federicofalcon2 said:

True, and if you think about it, you look at teams like the Patriots and the offense has run around 2 things, Brady and McDaniels.  There have been a few years where Josh wasn't there, but they kept the same scheme and style players suited to make Brady a success.  Now defense has this team propelling for another SB, but the consistency is there from top down.  

Looking at Shanahan, his team isn't a great offensive success the falcons were in 2016, but their defense has taken it to the league and made their team elite even if it's just for this season. 

In DQs 5 years we have had three OCs, and three DCs.  and the only constant is that after 2 years, we cut the OC, and after 1.5 years DQ takes over (until this year when after 8 games he gave up playcalling). 

We need a fixture along the management to ensure we aren't changing schemes so much that we end up paying players huge money that don't work in the scheme we run.  Matt Ryan has had to endure so many OC changes in his career, and he knows so many that he can adjust, but why not stick to the one he works best in.

I have heard and read that his style is best suited for a west coast offense and I'm not sure if that means quick passing, but from what I have seen, either we get excellent blocking, or Ryan's offense needs to let him get the balls into the hands of his playmakers right away. 

So many changes, we need to stop altering so much that a new regime and style causes us to have to start over every 2 years.

This is dead on man!  Yes, I think WCO is best for him for a cpl reasons 1you take advantage of intermediate and short routes (better suited to his arm certainly at this stage of career I’d imagine and 2 2-3 step drops....getting ball out so he’s not subjugated to pressure or asking OL to pass block too long bc MRs strength is not mobility and navigating traffic under pressure....dab things happen.  But you are dead on man!  Give the guy a consistent scheme, talent and leadership to leverage his strengths and I bet we’re in business quickly on O.  

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