robertap

At the end of this season, something has to give

36 posts in this topic

I do not know what the inner workings around Flowery Branch are like.  I doubt any of us really know what's going on behind closed doors at Falcons HQ.  But one thing is certain, there were some monumental mistakes made by someone over the past couple of years.  We got to 1-7 before finally figuring out that we weren't, "mysteriously," losing games, but were instead setting ourselves up for failure with poor decisions, and a lack of accountability.

Dan Quinn is the most obvious candidate.  He's the HC.  He's the one who should have had the final say as to which coaches are playing where, and holding players accountable to how they approach their jobs.  But what if his hands had been tied by someone higher up?

Thomas Dimitroff is not an X's and O's guy, he's a talent guy.  Granted, it seems like if he's paired with a coach who knows what they want, TD can get them the players that they want.  Given how he tends to work with HC's to get them what they need, I find it hard to believe that he'd be the one telling Quinn where his assistants should play, or cause problems regarding accountability.

Given Arthur Blank's history, I'm inclined to think that he could be the real issue here.  When you have an owner who likes to get down on the field during the games, who pushes players in wheelchairs onto the field, and who guarantees players a lifetime role at the organization, it's clear that he wants to be involved in every way possible.  That said, would it be a stretch to believe that Blank had some involvement as to where the assistant coaches were going to be.  Is it possible that the players saw how Blank treats his superstars and tried to make superstar plays instead of doing their jobs?

Wherever the problem is, it's about **** time that something be done about it.  If it's Quinn or TD, then we should part ways with one or both of them in the off-season.  If it's Blank, then Quinn and/or TD should call him out on it.  Their jobs are dependent on their performance, and if Blank is causing them to fail at their jobs, then they need to say something to him, or say something publicly.  If no change is made, then this cycle of failure is likely to continue.

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I’ve never been a proponent of Dan Quinn, however, the players seem to like him.  With that said, I believe if you get a fresh, new GM in here you can potentially change the culture without changing the entire footprint of the team.  A new GM will target different players than the ones we have in the past.  The overall eye for talent will be different, but the voice will still be the same.  
 

The GM is the least connected to the players.  It would be an easier transition.  If it was up to me I’d get rid of Quinn and TD, but I doubt it happens.

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I keep beating this drum.

Undisciplined not being able to finish and under prepared.

Sure some of this is player driven thee above.

For me when does AB say enough is enough and what are thee consequences on starting again with a new coaching staff.

I guess if your looking at the path of least resistance you’d start off the field in the FO.

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43 minutes ago, robertap said:

I do not know what the inner workings around Flowery Branch are like.  I doubt any of us really know what's going on behind closed doors at Falcons HQ.  But one thing is certain, there were some monumental mistakes made by someone over the past couple of years.  We got to 1-7 before finally figuring out that we weren't, "mysteriously," losing games, but were instead setting ourselves up for failure with poor decisions, and a lack of accountability.

Dan Quinn is the most obvious candidate.  He's the HC.  He's the one who should have had the final say as to which coaches are playing where, and holding players accountable to how they approach their jobs.  But what if his hands had been tied by someone higher up?

Thomas Dimitroff is not an X's and O's guy, he's a talent guy.  Granted, it seems like if he's paired with a coach who knows what they want, TD can get them the players that they want.  Given how he tends to work with HC's to get them what they need, I find it hard to believe that he'd be the one telling Quinn where his assistants should play, or cause problems regarding accountability.

Given Arthur Blank's history, I'm inclined to think that he could be the real issue here.  When you have an owner who likes to get down on the field during the games, who pushes players in wheelchairs onto the field, and who guarantees players a lifetime role at the organization, it's clear that he wants to be involved in every way possible.  That said, would it be a stretch to believe that Blank had some involvement as to where the assistant coaches were going to be.  Is it possible that the players saw how Blank treats his superstars and tried to make superstar plays instead of doing their jobs?

Wherever the problem is, it's about **** time that something be done about it.  If it's Quinn or TD, then we should part ways with one or both of them in the off-season.  If it's Blank, then Quinn and/or TD should call him out on it.  Their jobs are dependent on their performance, and if Blank is causing them to fail at their jobs, then they need to say something to him, or say something publicly.  If no change is made, then this cycle of failure is likely to continue.

If we keep playing well I would just keep things exactly where they are. I'm tempted to say I wouldn't mind Gary Kubiak at offensive coordinator because he is good at running the ball but I don't want to keep having to change coordinators. 

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5 minutes ago, kiwifalcon said:

I keep beating this drum.

Undisciplined not being able to finish and under prepared.

Sure some of this is player driven thee above.

For me when does AB say enough is enough and what are thee consequences on starting again with a new coaching staff.

I guess if your looking at the path of least resistance you’d start off the field in the FO.

Maybe Julio's speech about "it's not the coaching it's the players" was correct. Thomas Dimitroff is not the problem because the talent is obviously there. 11 sacks in 2 games. Lindstrom and McGrary are solid picks if they stay healthy. Matthews and Mack are pro bowl caliber, Grady is a beast!  

 

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9 minutes ago, Falcons Fan MVP said:

If we keep playing well I would just keep things exactly where they are. I'm tempted to say I wouldn't mind Gary Kubiak at offensive coordinator because he is good at running the ball but I don't want to keep having to change coordinators. 

That's exactly where I'm at right now. Changing, and then not having an identity other than changing.

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There's a story from IBM about a young manager who made a colossal mistake and cost the company millions. He got called to the CEO's office where he expected to be fired on the spot. The CEO simply asked him did he learn his lesson. The CEO went on to explain now the company had millions of dollars invested in him ... did they need to cut bait or would he now take his new knowledge and not make the same mistakes in the future.

Are we there with Quinn? I'm not an IBM CEO so I don't have the answers.

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19 minutes ago, Geneaut said:

There's a story from IBM about a young manager who made a colossal mistake and cost the company millions. He got called to the CEO's office where he expected to be fired on the spot. The CEO simply asked him did he learn his lesson. The CEO went on to explain now the company had millions of dollars invested in him ... did they need to cut bait or would he now take his new knowledge and not make the same mistakes in the future.

Are we there with Quinn? I'm not an IBM CEO so I don't have the answers.

Even though I’ve heard it many times over the decades, I still love that story of IBM founder Tom Watson. 

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One thing is for certain: Thomas Dimitroff is far from the problem. (In my mind, never has been since he has been here). I am being as objective as I can and not allowing my connection to the organization influence that opinion. 

My opinion: I don't think the players hold the majority blame, though they hold some. You don't turn around like this mid-season because you all of a sudden decided to start holding yourself and others accountable. I just don't see how you can go from 1-7 to absolutely dominating division rivals (one of whom is making a serious SB push) ON THE ROAD because players suddenly changed their mindset.

Even if the players were not accountable, it starts at the head coach, imho. Blaming the players while continuing to lose achieves nothing. If heads started to roll toward Quinn, then he should do the same to players: none of this players coach stuff. As they say, ish rolls down hill.

Edited by Halcon-1

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1 hour ago, 2_legit_2_legit_2_quit said:

We keep Quinn then we will keep having seasons like this one. Period.

Hopefully he learns his lesson. I think Deion Jones, Rico, Neal coming back from injury they might just gotten comfortable again.

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4 hours ago, robertap said:

I do not know what the inner workings around Flowery Branch are like.  I doubt any of us really know what's going on behind closed doors at Falcons HQ.  But one thing is certain, there were some monumental mistakes made by someone over the past couple of years.  We got to 1-7 before finally figuring out that we weren't, "mysteriously," losing games, but were instead setting ourselves up for failure with poor decisions, and a lack of accountability.

Dan Quinn is the most obvious candidate.  He's the HC.  He's the one who should have had the final say as to which coaches are playing where, and holding players accountable to how they approach their jobs.  But what if his hands had been tied by someone higher up?

Thomas Dimitroff is not an X's and O's guy, he's a talent guy.  Granted, it seems like if he's paired with a coach who knows what they want, TD can get them the players that they want.  Given how he tends to work with HC's to get them what they need, I find it hard to believe that he'd be the one telling Quinn where his assistants should play, or cause problems regarding accountability.

Given Arthur Blank's history, I'm inclined to think that he could be the real issue here.  When you have an owner who likes to get down on the field during the games, who pushes players in wheelchairs onto the field, and who guarantees players a lifetime role at the organization, it's clear that he wants to be involved in every way possible.  That said, would it be a stretch to believe that Blank had some involvement as to where the assistant coaches were going to be.  Is it possible that the players saw how Blank treats his superstars and tried to make superstar plays instead of doing their jobs?

Wherever the problem is, it's about **** time that something be done about it.  If it's Quinn or TD, then we should part ways with one or both of them in the off-season.  If it's Blank, then Quinn and/or TD should call him out on it.  Their jobs are dependent on their performance, and if Blank is causing them to fail at their jobs, then they need to say something to him, or say something publicly.  If no change is made, then this cycle of failure is likely to continue.

If AB is in any way part of the issue I would hope all of those empty seats and defaulted PSLs give him all the impetus he needs to modify his and/or others involvement as necessary.  

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42 minutes ago, Halcon-1 said:

One thing is for certain: Thomas Dimitroff is far from the problem. (In my mind, never has been since he has been here). I am being as objective as I can and not allowing my connection to the organization influence that opinion. 

My opinion: I don't think the players hold the majority blame, though they hold some. You don't turn around like this mid-season because you all of a sudden decided to start holding yourself and others accountable. I just don't see how you can go from 1-7 to absolutely dominating division rivals (one of whom is making a serious SB push) ON THE ROAD because players suddenly changed their mindset.

Even if the players were not accountable, it starts at the head coach, imho. Blaming the players while continuing to lose achieves nothing. If heads started to roll toward Quinn, then he should do the same to players: none of this players coach stuff. As they say, ish rolls down hill.

I think that good Dan Quinn gives us the best chance to win a championship. I admit bad Dan Quinn is horrible!

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4 hours ago, robertap said:

I do not know what the inner workings around Flowery Branch are like.  I doubt any of us really know what's going on behind closed doors at Falcons HQ.  But one thing is certain, there were some monumental mistakes made by someone over the past couple of years.  We got to 1-7 before finally figuring out that we weren't, "mysteriously," losing games, but were instead setting ourselves up for failure with poor decisions, and a lack of accountability.

Dan Quinn is the most obvious candidate.  He's the HC.  He's the one who should have had the final say as to which coaches are playing where, and holding players accountable to how they approach their jobs.  But what if his hands had been tied by someone higher up?

Thomas Dimitroff is not an X's and O's guy, he's a talent guy.  Granted, it seems like if he's paired with a coach who knows what they want, TD can get them the players that they want.  Given how he tends to work with HC's to get them what they need, I find it hard to believe that he'd be the one telling Quinn where his assistants should play, or cause problems regarding accountability.

Given Arthur Blank's history, I'm inclined to think that he could be the real issue here.  When you have an owner who likes to get down on the field during the games, who pushes players in wheelchairs onto the field, and who guarantees players a lifetime role at the organization, it's clear that he wants to be involved in every way possible.  That said, would it be a stretch to believe that Blank had some involvement as to where the assistant coaches were going to be.  Is it possible that the players saw how Blank treats his superstars and tried to make superstar plays instead of doing their jobs?

Wherever the problem is, it's about **** time that something be done about it.  If it's Quinn or TD, then we should part ways with one or both of them in the off-season.  If it's Blank, then Quinn and/or TD should call him out on it.  Their jobs are dependent on their performance, and if Blank is causing them to fail at their jobs, then they need to say something to him, or say something publicly.  If no change is made, then this cycle of failure is likely to continue.

If we don't go at least 8-8 I'd clean house. Dimi first. He's a coach killa. Knows nothing about NFL trenches. Also crapped the bed with the cap. Let the new GM decide on the HC.

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10 hours ago, Geneaut said:

There's a story from IBM about a young manager who made a colossal mistake and cost the company millions. He got called to the CEO's office where he expected to be fired on the spot. The CEO simply asked him did he learn his lesson. The CEO went on to explain now the company had millions of dollars invested in him ... did they need to cut bait or would he now take his new knowledge and not make the same mistakes in the future.

Are we there with Quinn? I'm not an IBM CEO so I don't have the answers.

This has been my approach to the situation. BB made mistakes in Cleveland, and in his next HC gig, would go on to win 6 super bowls.

Looking at what a difference this team looks like compared to early in the year, could Quinn already be on the path to learning from his mistakes, and becoming a much better HC?

Even if you don't believe so, the question then becomes, well what does a new coaching staff really prove? Yes, it's a fresh set of eyes and ideas, but does that change really mean anything if the new staff isn't any better?

I felt like Mike Smith had no real direction for his teams after he started collapsing. The players didn't really back him a whole lot. With Quinn, not only does it seem like he could be changing the direction of this team, but the players seem to at least fight for his job.

Something tells me they believe in him, and may see that there's unfinished business that needs to be attended to.

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8 hours ago, robertap said:

I'm thinking that Blank is as responsible for this as TD.  I mean, how can you do your job as GM if the Owner says, "He's a Falcon for LIFE!"

Well Blank cant be fired so TD still has to go

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17 hours ago, Falcons Fan MVP said:

If we keep playing well I would just keep things exactly where they are. I'm tempted to say I wouldn't mind Gary Kubiak at offensive coordinator because he is good at running the ball but I don't want to keep having to change coordinators. 

I get that ... but last year it was the same thing .. horrible start then we start winning once it’s too late to make the playoffs 

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The older I get the less I can tolerate regime change.   And Art Blank has 20+ years on me so I can understand his reluctance to burn down his staff of people and start over.   

I've been switching back and forth on this, and now after the big turnaround, I'm back to thinking Quinn is safe going into 2020.  

 

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4 hours ago, MAD597 said:

Well Blank cant be fired so TD still has to go

"Something has to give," doesn't mean that someone needs to be fired.  Perhaps Blank gives up trying to micromanage the organization and allows the people that he's paying, to do their jobs.  I want to be clear that I'm not sure that this is the problem...  I'm merely presenting it as a possibility as to why we haven't had the success that most of us believe that we should have had.

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Put me on the 'fence' for this one and let's finish this season. Sure, we've won two games in a row in convincing fashion and the defense has been great to watch. There's another six games to be played and we have not beaten an AFC opponent in what seems like an eternity and a upcoming rematch with the Saints and then a game at the Niners are still to be played. I really don't see us winning out but feel like as good as we're currently playing, it is very possible. I think the defining games as to whether anyone gets fired or not are if we lose to the Jags, Panthers or either of the two left to the Bucs.  Lose any one of those games and the best we do is 8-8 even if we do take down the Saints again and win at San Fran. 

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None of us really know the culture of the locker room. Having said that, a couple of things stand out. There does seem to be a lack of accountability on the part of the players. That may come from Blank, as the OP noted. It also comes from a coach who seems “close” to his players. Remember, DQ has a major say in personnel so these are his guys. That cuts  a couple of ways. Having chosen them it might be difficult to see what and who they are clearly because it reflects on DQ. 

This is definitely a management group that has made a bad habit of falling in love with its own ideas. DQ tends to hire friends and guys he likes personally who aren’t necessarily the best guys for the job.

In other words, if you were doing a professional recruitment, you’d cast the net a lot wider and look at things differently than if you really just want or prefer to work with your buddies. Kyle Shanahan was an example of a guy DQ didn’t really know personally but was highly qualified. Contrast that with Richard Smith, Sarkisian, etc. - you get my point. 

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