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FalconsIn2012

Almost Feel Bad For RB’s:

85 posts in this topic

1 minute ago, Boise Falcon Fan said:

He has.  Even when he isn't gaining yards, he is taking a ton of pressure off of Dak.

Dak is legitimately good on his own now. For a few years everyone said Russell Wilson was only good because of Marshawn Lynch but then Lynch declined and Wilson went to the next level. That's what we're seeing with Dak now. 

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Good backs are more about a good Oline and offensive scheme and utilization.  An average back can look great at times.  Unless they are a real threat to catch out of the back-field, are hard runners (can get the tough yard or two) and can block, you can use replacement talent and not lose any offensive productivity.  Just my opinion, but I wouldn't even categorizes backs as a skill position anymore.  Probably the least important player on the offense IF you have a good line and an OC that knows how to use backs properly.

It's actually a shame to see some of the good backs that turn out to be nothing because their O lines are terrible or they have an OC that is a dolt.  Same can be said of mediocre backs that look like superstars because of the other players around them.

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8 minutes ago, Summerhill said:

Dak is legitimately good on his own now. For a few years everyone said Russell Wilson was only good because of Marshawn Lynch but then Lynch declined and Wilson went to the next level. That's what we're seeing with Dak now. 

True. TBH, I never thought Dak would progress like he has this season. 

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11 hours ago, rings639 said:

The drop off in your chances of hitting on a running back from round 1 to 3 or 4 is a ton less than the drop off on a pass rusher, wide receiver, offensive linemen, etc.  

Top 10 PFF ranked RBs this year have an average draft position of 100 (two UDFAs & one round 5), WR is 41 (no one after round 3), pass rusher is 26 (no one after round 3, 7/10 first round). 

One eye opening thing to me is 7 of the top 11 CBs this year were undrafted, including Brian Poole.  Only one is a first rounder, Marcus Peters.

I know PFF isn't the end all, be all...but it's still interesting.

With respect, I’ve never really bought into that. 10 of 12 league leaders in rushing yards this season were either 1st or 2nd round picks.

And that doesn’t include Barkley.

RB is just too critical a position for me to hope a 4th round or later pick turns into the next Terrell Davis.

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46 minutes ago, Vandy said:

Okay, Maybe Warrick Dunn would have been a better example. 

Dunn really did have a wonderful and vastly unappreciated career..... one of the few that played up to his value over the length of his second contract.

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Interesting thread discussion,  @FalconsIn2012
 

As noted, I don’t completely agree with it. But even for an old codger like myself, it did cause me to take pause and re- think my beliefs on this.
 

That doesn’t happen that often in here. Good job.

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Unless it's super cheap, I'd never give a 2nd contract to a RB.  Too many in the draft every year to do that...

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13 minutes ago, Vandy said:

Interesting thread discussion,  @FalconsIn2012
 

As noted, I don’t completely agree with it. But even for an old codger like me, it did cause me to take pause and re- think my beliefs on this.
 

That doesn’t happen that often in here. Good job.

When @Vandy compliments your thread and doesn’t ask if it was written in crayons, it’s a good day 

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I've said it before but the last 1st round running back to be a major contributor to two championship runs for the team that drafted him was LaDainian Tomlinson. 

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20 hours ago, athell said:

The top end guys (Saquon, Zeke, CMC) of the world will still get paid.  And they deserve it.  But if you don't have an elite back, yea...not worth it.

Kind of hard to say a RB is not worth it, when they may have given their all, and got injured 

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3 minutes ago, Summerhill said:

I've said it before but the last 1st round running back to be a major contributor to two championship runs for the team that drafted him was LaDainian Tomlinson. 

That’s actually a stronger ‘shiny hood ornament’ argument than the WR/Julio narrative.

Still, give me a great defense and bruiser RB (ala Ravens/Jamal Lewis) and we’ll figure out a way to win a ring. 

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2 hours ago, Sidecar Falcon said:

 

I think the type of RB needs to be taken into consideration. More elusive backs like Saquon and McCaffrey should have a longer career based on style of play. Players like Zeke should not. Too many hits, too many carries, one dimensional. Pay for players that are versatile, avoid punishment, and have mileage left. 

I agree.  Though it's funny because Saquon was hurt this year and is still playing hurt while Zeke has been healthy.

Really, like everything else, it depends on the individual.  Blanket statements cannot be made.

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21 minutes ago, Faithful Falcon said:

Kind of hard to say a RB is not worth it, when they may have given their all, and got injured 

It's not a knock on the player, it's just the way the landscape of the league is now.  RBs are fungible.  It's a sad truth.

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12 minutes ago, Vandy said:

That’s actually a stronger ‘shiny hood ornament’ argument than the WR/Julio narrative.

Still, give me a great defense and bruiser RB (ala Ravens/Jamal Lewis) and we’ll figure out a way to win a ring. 

Give me a great defense and let me figure the rest out tbh.  It all starts there.

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21 minutes ago, Vandy said:

That’s actually a stronger ‘shiny hood ornament’ argument than the WR/Julio narrative.

Still, give me a great defense and bruiser RB (ala Ravens/Jamal Lewis) and we’ll figure out a way to win a ring. 

If the last two weeks show us anything, it’s this: excellent defense allows you to play slightly above average offense and score 28 ppg.

And despite what the score may say, our offense has been average the last two weeks.  But it was completely irrelevant.  Short fields and numerous extra possessions allows you to score points

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1 hour ago, athell said:

Give me a great defense and let me figure the rest out tbh.  It all starts there.

Yes sir.

Elway was near end of his career when he got that sneaky good Denver D + of course TD for the running game. I still have hope that’s what Matt deservedly gets in next few years. 

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9 minutes ago, Vandy said:

That’s actually a stronger ‘shiny hood ornament’ argument than the WR/Julio narrative.

Julio has been a major contributor for two different championship runs. A 1st round WR is a much better long term investment than RB. 

9 minutes ago, Vandy said:

Still, give me a great defense and bruiser RB (ala Ravens/Jamal Lewis) and we’ll figure out a way to win a ring. 

It's great the Ravens won the Super Bowl in Lewis' rookie season, but they never made it past the Division round in any other season with him. 

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7 minutes ago, Summerhill said:

 

It's great the Ravens won the Super Bowl in Lewis' rookie season, but they never made it past the Division round in any other season with him. 

It’s rarely an absolute. You need a halfway decent QB too. And of course competent coaching. 

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2 hours ago, Summerhill said:

Dak is legitimately good on his own now. For a few years everyone said Russell Wilson was only good because of Marshawn Lynch but then Lynch declined and Wilson went to the next level. That's what we're seeing with Dak now. 

That doesn't change the fact that Elliott takes pressure off of him.  Much easier to pass for any QB when they have an Ezekiel Elliott back there.

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2 hours ago, FalconsIn2012 said:

Just playing devils advocate: hasn’t Zeke had a more meaningful impact than Ramsey so far?

Really hard to say with a stacked Jags defense most the years he was there and Zeke running behind the best oline in football four a couple years.  When Zeke went down they didn’t skip a beat, I read an article somewhere that their offense was actually more productive in games he’s missed as crazy as that is to think about.  But I would take a top corner over a top back any day.

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2 hours ago, FalconsIn2012 said:

Just playing devils advocate: hasn’t Zeke had a more meaningful impact than Ramsey so far?

Who would you feel more comfortable betting would still be a starter in 2025? 

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2 hours ago, Vandy said:

With respect, I’ve never really bought into that. 10 of 12 league leaders in rushing yards this season were either 1st or 2nd round picks.

And that doesn’t include Barkley.

RB is just too critical a position for me to hope a 4th round or later pick turns into the next Terrell Davis.

I get it, there are always two sides to this argument.  The total yardage though isn’t a great way to determine value in my opinion as it is greatly determined by attempts, there is a direct correlation with rushing yards and attempts.  A big factor as well is if they use them as an every down back vs splitting carries with another.  Kamara dominated the league for a couple years but was never up there because he was sharing carries with Ingram.  He was also one of the most dangerous backs in the passing game and that won’t show up in rushing yards either.  Just my two cents.  

The other part of the argument is the impact a running back has on wins/losses.  Barkley was taken number two overall last year, he was the best back in the league last year, but the team had the sixth pick in this years draft.  So even being the best back, the impact they have on a team isn’t what it once was from a wins/loss stand point.  

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13 minutes ago, Summerhill said:

Who would you feel more comfortable betting would still be a starter in 2025? 

That’s a different question.  
 

Plus, Ramsey is on a different team and you’re going to pay him 18 APY once his rookie deal expires.  I wouldn’t pay it so he’d be gone regardless

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1 hour ago, rings639 said:

I get it, there are always two sides to this argument.  The total yardage though isn’t a great way to determine value in my opinion as it is greatly determined by attempts, there is a direct correlation with rushing yards and attempts.  A big factor as well is if they use them as an every down back vs splitting carries with another.  Kamara dominated the league for a couple years but was never up there because he was sharing carries with Ingram.  He was also one of the most dangerous backs in the passing game and that won’t show up in rushing yards either.  Just my two cents.  

The other part of the argument is the impact a running back has on wins/losses.  Barkley was taken number two overall last year, he was the best back in the league last year, but the team had the sixth pick in this years draft.  So even being the best back, the impact they have on a team isn’t what it once was from a wins/loss stand point.  

Good post.

As I alluded to earlier, it’s rarely an absolute. Barkley is surrounded by incompetence at QB and suspect coaching/general management in NY. He may end up with similar plight as Barry Sanders career in Detroit. 

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