*Old Pappy Falcon*

Not Knockin our Current QB

127 posts in this topic

39 minutes ago, runshoot said:

I mean facts are facts. 1 offs don't mean much. Drew lock was injured, so he doesnt qualify.

Mayfield, Darnold, Allen, Rosen, Trubisky, Winston, Mariota, Blake Bortles, D watson, Lamar Jackson, Wentz, Goff, Murray, Daniel Jones, Dwayne haskins even Paxton Lynch...goes on and on and thats just since 2014. Teams drafts QBs to play. Not sit and learn. Not squander cap savings potential. 

It's not a thing anymore.

We would not  save CAP until 2022.

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11 minutes ago, runshoot said:

I get your point and sure there are some merits to it. Im just letting you know , its not a thing.

The NFL disagrees with you, is my point. Again outside of Mahomes, since 2014 there are no teams that sat a drafted QB for a year or more and who later became the starter. 

Kyle Allen and Taysom Hill were undrafted. You can't expect someone to think Mason Rudolph would be starting if Ben wasnt hurt. Are you suggesting Ryan Finley is an example? 29 of 61 . thats 47% and 141yards per game with 1 TD. Doesn't really prove your point of drafting , sitting and learning as successful.

It is ultra rare. I mean if 2014 isnt good enough we can pull more drafted QB names and they all started. Geno Smith. EJ Manual, Luck, Tannehill, RG3. You can believe what you want thats fine, but the evidence is there.

 

7 minutes ago, runshoot said:

Again Im telling you the reality of the NFL. Not my opinion of the NFL or its handling of young QBs. 

You said it yourself. sat a few games. They start games their rookie year. There is no "hey let Matt play his last year or 2 and let QB X learn.

Additionally you said teams drafted them because they didnt have a QB. So what do teams that have a QB do? They don't draft back ups. Thats the exact point Im making and you are also supporting the statement. 

You can wish it, but its not a thing the NFL does. Dont hate the messenger.

You’re not drafting a back up you’re drafting a successor to Ryan. Not to mention that most teams don’t have the ability to allow a QB to sit and learn. You think that organizations want to have someone playing with zero NFL experience. No, but they are forced to at points. Especially with highly selected picks.  

And drafting backup QBs does happen. Case in point, Garappollo, Wilson etc. Garappolo was drafted in the 2nd round and Wilson was drafted after the Seahawks signed Flynn to a big contract. 

As for the two examples. Rudolph is in his second year to a team that lost both their star RB & WR in consecutive years. And you kind of proved my point with Finley who was drafted this past year in the 4th round and is looking awful. 

The premise isn’t on whether or not it’s normal, it’s whether or not we should. 

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Big fan of Ryan and think he is arguably the greatest player in Falcons history(some argument from JJ but I value QB more than WR), but I do like the idea of every now and then take a flyer on a QB to groom.  Spend a 3rd rounder or below though.  Pick right and groom well then you have your insurance as well as a chip to trade.  Good QB can net you a 1st or 2nd rounder easily.

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Falcons may be trying to build a line finally for their QB to help extend his playing years for longer than some think, but I kind of think Ryan ends up more like Palmer on when he goes then a Brady or even Brees. That would mean he has 4 seasons left after this season. Coincidentally, his contract runs through 2023.

Maybe he plays for a little longer, but I wouldn't give him another extension. I'd let it play out at this point and would think about his replacement "potentially" in either 2021 or 2022.

I wouldn't draft a QB this year unless it makes sense (right situation in the later rounds than the first with the QB being BPA, or MAYBE Tua). 

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3 hours ago, JD dirtybird21 said:

I’m warming up to the idea myself. Like KOG said, what’s the worst that could happen? I see Rivers this year and I’m realizing that playing passed 40 isn’t actually normal. Brady and Brees haven’t set precedents. They are just very fortunate to be on incredible run organizations. I’m all for the idea of a taking a shot on a QB

Here's my thing...

1)  Matt is not the problem with this team.  He is still performing at a level that is more than enough to win a SB.  Is he Mahomes or Lamar?  No...but he doesn't need to be.  Even Mahomes is proving defense is important...

2)  We have no potential out on Matt's contract until 2022 so at minimum we have a guy sitting on the bench for 3 years.

3)  The whole magic surrounding rookie qb's is the rookie qb contract, specifically 1st rounders because you get that 5th year option.  Why would we spend a 1st rounder on a QB when Matt A ) is still great and B ) is not showing any signs of slowing down anytime soon?

4)  Based off 3, if they do have some future stud QB prospect that shines in spot duty and preseason, by the time he does play he is going to want to be paid so we wasted the years of potential cheap output for what?

I'm all for throwing late round darts at QB prospects, but it's not time yet for Matt's predecessor.  It's just not.  For several reasons, not the least of which being that he is still really really good and should have several years of this level of play ahead of him.  One draft pick can play a large part in a team dynamic, I would much rather use that pick on areas we actually have needs and not try to force the issue because eventually Matt will be gone.

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9 hours ago, Knight of God said:

The Patriots have traded at least two of their future QBs and both are starters now. I would go for it. What’s the worst that could happen?

A 7th rounder on Cassell and later pick #64 for Garoppolo; possibly what we wind up with from Sanu.

Never opposed to BPA there, but I’m not spending a 1st at the expense of the current window with Ryan; which could be at least another 3-4 years.

By then, you should have a young guy either way as the primary backup and no more old vets like Schaub.

Pats spent that low 2nd after Brady had a down year in 2013; 87 rating, and he was entering his age 37 season.

That puts a similar timeline of drafting a potential future starter in 2-3 years; prior to age 36 or 37 season.

Before that, you don’t spend high capital unless Ryan shows clear age related problems. Not seeing any yet.

I’m more concerned getting a legit OC in here that can actually get this team to run the ball again; as that has more bearing on our possible SB shot than life after Ryan.

PS: fun fact Pats have not drafted a player that made the PB since 2013.

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9 hours ago, Knight of God said:

The Patriots have traded at least two of their future QBs and both are starters now. I would go for it. What’s the worst that could happen?

Well honestly... 2-3 years of 67 different threads about how we should trade him and give the job to the other guy every time we lose a game or Ryan throws an interception.

I mean I agree with you, but still....

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10 minutes ago, Ergo Proxy said:

A 7th rounder on Cassell and later pick #64 for Garoppolo; possibly what we wind up with from Sanu.

Never opposed to BPA there, but I’m not spending a 1st at the expense of the current window with Ryan; which could be at least another 3-4 years.

By then, you should have a young guy either way as the primary backup and no more old vets like Schaub.

Pats spent that low 2nd after Brady had a down year in 2013; 87 rating, and he was entering his age 37 season.

That puts a similar timeline of drafting a potential future starter in 2-3 years; prior to age 36 or 37 season.

Before that, you don’t spend high capital unless Ryan shows clear age related problems. Not seeing any yet.

I’m more concerned getting a legit OC in here that can actually get this team to run the ball again; as that has more bearing on our possible SB shot than life after Ryan.

PS: fun fact Pats have not drafted a player that made the PB since 2013.

Yeah, this is all about timing and right now is not the time.  Not with this roster.

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4 hours ago, Spts1 said:

At one time I wanted Trevor Lawrence.  Not anymore.  He looks exactly like Jay Cutler 2.0...  He gonna put up a ton of yardage... and a TON of interceptions.   Justin Fields is who they should pick if they have a top pick next season. 

So what happens is you see a guy for 1 year and you're sure he's the man until you see him another year and change your mind.

So who's to say you don't change your mind after seeing Fields another year?

As sold on Fields as many are now, so were so many sold on Lawrence last season. 

I would wait until they are ready to enter the draft and then look at entire collegiate careers before declaring for the one I wanted.

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4 hours ago, papachaz said:

:lol::lol:

 

freaking hilarious! 

 

"NOODLE ARM" dropped a dime on julio almost 50 yards downfield with a hand in his face, something he's done quite a bit over the last 12 years 

 

"NOODLE LEGS" was clocked at 17 MPH on a scramble for a first down pickup on a long third down. Put him in the top five fastest plays of the week. 

 

y'all just crack me up with your ignorance sometimes

Papa on Fire... get out of here with all your facts..

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1 hour ago, VoiceofReason95 said:

Falcons may be trying to build a line finally for their QB to help extend his playing years for longer than some think, but I kind of think Ryan ends up more like Palmer on when he goes then a Brady or even Brees. That would mean he has 4 seasons left after this season. Coincidentally, his contract runs through 2023.

Maybe he plays for a little longer, but I wouldn't give him another extension. I'd let it play out at this point and would think about his replacement "potentially" in either 2021 or 2022.

I wouldn't draft a QB this year unless it makes sense (right situation in the later rounds than the first with the QB being BPA, or MAYBE Tua). 

Carson Palmer had multiple serious injuries throughout his career, while Matt Ryan has been Iron Man.

Why would you compare him to Matt?

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58 minutes ago, TheUsualStuff said:

So what happens is you see a guy for 1 year and you're sure he's the man until you see him another year and change your mind.

So who's to say you don't change your mind after seeing Fields another year?

As sold on Fields as many are now, so were so many sold on Lawrence last season. 

I would wait until they are ready to enter the draft and then look at entire collegiate careers before declaring for the one I wanted.

Lets back up.  I've seen enough of Trevor Lawrence that I have concerns about HIM.   As far as Justin goes, yes, he has only played one season and needs another solid season to prove himself as a solid quarterback...

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5 hours ago, Sidecar Falcon said:

Agree. I think a lot of people use Brady as the standard for old QBs, when he’s the outlier. Not to mention the Patriots are MASTERS at hiding weaknesses.

Brees is one of the best QBs to ever live. Not to mention he’s put in a system that is perfect for him. 

Love Ryan but he isn’t in a system that can hide his weaknesses. His biggest strength is his football acumen. Which can help minimize his decline over the next few years, but eventually his physical gifts will decline to the point that having him under center will be a liability. 

 

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1 hour ago, Ergo Proxy said:

A 7th rounder on Cassell and later pick #64 for Garoppolo; possibly what we wind up with from Sanu.

Never opposed to BPA there, but I’m not spending a 1st at the expense of the current window with Ryan; which could be at least another 3-4 years.

By then, you should have a young guy either way as the primary backup and no more old vets like Schaub.

Pats spent that low 2nd after Brady had a down year in 2013; 87 rating, and he was entering his age 37 season.

That puts a similar timeline of drafting a potential future starter in 2-3 years; prior to age 36 or 37 season.

Before that, you don’t spend high capital unless Ryan shows clear age related problems. Not seeing any yet.

I’m more concerned getting a legit OC in here that can actually get this team to run the ball again; as that has more bearing on our possible SB shot than life after Ryan.

PS: fun fact Pats have not drafted a player that made the PB since 2013.

Spend a 3rd or 4th. What was the value of trading Brissett? Basically a 1st

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7 hours ago, caponine said:

We'll truly see how many quality years Ryan has left 

Eli declines FAST, Rivers is declining..**** happens quicker than you think. Not everyone is Brady or Brees. He already has a weakish arm.

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Just now, ChickenBiscuit said:

Eli declines FAST, Rivers is declining..**** happens quicker than you think. Not everyone is Brady or Brees. He already has a weakish arm.

I think you need to get at least one more season before you start seriously looking. You can't draft a 'name' guy and have his contract expire close to the time Matt's is. You need a season or two overlap if possible. I think Matt has 2 more good seasons in him.

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5 hours ago, Sidecar Falcon said:

Agree. I think a lot of people use Brady as the standard for old QBs, when he’s the outlier. Not to mention the Patriots are MASTERS at hiding weaknesses.

Brees is one of the best QBs to ever live. Not to mention he’s put in a system that is perfect for him. 

Love Ryan but he isn’t in a system that can hide his weaknesses. His biggest strength is his football acumen. Which can help minimize his decline over the next few years, but eventually his physical gifts will decline to the point that having him under center will be a liability. 

This is no different than every single NFL player though.  The rub is determining when that is.  I see no decline in Matt's play that would tell me a decline is imminent just yet which is why drafting a QB in early rounds makes no sense to me.  I honestly wouldn't spend higher than a 5th on a QB at this point.

If you want to win a SB now, especially with the holes in the roster we have, you don't spend high picks on backup/future QB's.  My opinion, but like I said it's not nearly time yet.  Matt has plenty of ball left in him.

Denver won a SB with a shell of Manning.  It can be done, he did just enough that they needed him to but their surrounding talent was lights out.  I'd rather build that surrounding talent right now, while we still have a QB that can play at a high level, than pass on a potential starter or starters to prepare for an event minimum 3 years down the line.

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9 minutes ago, ChickenBiscuit said:

Eli declines FAST, Rivers is declining..**** happens quicker than you think. Not everyone is Brady or Brees. He already has a weakish arm.

Eli has been on a decline for a long dang time.  People just thought he was better than he was.  Rivers is falling off a cliff right now.

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26 minutes ago, ChickenBiscuit said:

Eli declines FAST, Rivers is declining..**** happens quicker than you think. Not everyone is Brady or Brees. He already has a weakish arm.

Eli had been bad for better part of decade. Lol. He just rode his two rings won years ago till now.

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2 hours ago, athell said:

Here's my thing...

1)  Matt is not the problem with this team.  He is still performing at a level that is more than enough to win a SB.  Is he Mahomes or Lamar?  No...but he doesn't need to be.  Even Mahomes is proving defense is important...

2)  We have no potential out on Matt's contract until 2022 so at minimum we have a guy sitting on the bench for 3 years.

3)  The whole magic surrounding rookie qb's is the rookie qb contract, specifically 1st rounders because you get that 5th year option.  Why would we spend a 1st rounder on a QB when Matt A ) is still great and B ) is not showing any signs of slowing down anytime soon?

4)  Based off 3, if they do have some future stud QB prospect that shines in spot duty and preseason, by the time he does play he is going to want to be paid so we wasted the years of potential cheap output for what?

I'm all for throwing late round darts at QB prospects, but it's not time yet for Matt's predecessor.  It's just not.  For several reasons, not the least of which being that he is still really really good and should have several years of this level of play ahead of him.  One draft pick can play a large part in a team dynamic, I would much rather use that pick on areas we actually have needs and not try to force the issue because eventually Matt will be gone.

You’d only take a 1st round QB (let’s say Hebert drops to us at 15) if the objective was to sit him a year snd trade Ryan for a 1st in the offseason.  You take a big dead money hit that year but it clears 35 million in CAP in 2022.  
 

You’d only do it if you love a prospect and feel it’s the only way to effectively create CAP space without gutting the roster.  I did the numbers in the Burrow thread I made, but trading Ryan and cutting Freeman, Carp, Brown, Ty & Rico in 2021 creates 75 million in CAP

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17 minutes ago, athell said:

Eli has been on a decline for a long dang time.  People just thought he was better than he was.  Rivers is falling off a cliff right now.

Eli’s decline started in Ole Miss...such an average QB

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1 minute ago, FalconsIn2012 said:

You’d only take a 1st round QB (let’s say Hebert drops to us at 15) if the objective was to sit him a year snd trade Ryan for a 1st in the offseason.  You take a big dead money guy that year but it clears 35 million in CAP in 2022.  
 

You’d only do it if you love a prospect and feel it’s the only way to effectively create CAP space without gutting the roster.  I did the numbers in the Burrow thread I made, but trading Ryan and cutting Freeman, Carp, Brown, Ty & Rico in 2021 creates 75 million in CAP

I don't know if I could hate that more lol

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1 minute ago, athell said:

I don't know if I could hate that more lol

lol...for Burrow I was willing to consider it.  But Ryan still has 3-4 more quality years.  If the intent isn’t to replace Ryan, don’t take a qb early

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Just now, FalconsIn2012 said:

lol...for Burrow I was willing to consider it.  But Ryan still has 3-4 more quality years.  If the intent isn’t to replace Ryan, don’t take a qb early

For sure

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