*Old Pappy Falcon*

Not Knockin our Current QB

127 posts in this topic

20 minutes ago, FalconsFanSince194eva said:

Matt has another 5-8 years bearing a complete over night drop off. So no, I do not think we need to draft another QB for at least three more years.

I couldn't take another 5 to 8 years of noodle arm and noodle legs.  You can sack Ryan with your pinky finger...

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This team has many more pressing needs than quarterback*.  

If Ryan was 38 or 39 I'd say it's time to find his replacement.  We're a long way from that.  

*For instance...maybe a couple more standout o-linemen to protect him?  

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16 minutes ago, Spts1 said:

I couldn't take another 5 to 8 years of noodle arm and noodle legs.  You can sack Ryan with your pinky finger...

:lol::lol:

 

freaking hilarious! 

 

"NOODLE ARM" dropped a dime on julio almost 50 yards downfield with a hand in his face, something he's done quite a bit over the last 12 years 

 

"NOODLE LEGS" was clocked at 17 MPH on a scramble for a first down pickup on a long third down. Put him in the top five fastest plays of the week. 

 

y'all just crack me up with your ignorance sometimes

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5 hours ago, Knight of God said:

The Patriots have traded at least two of their future QBs and both are starters now. I would go for it. What’s the worst that could happen?

I would take a flyer on Eason in round 2 if he is available.  See if Matt’s IQ rubs off while Eason sits for two years.  I know one thing, Julio would not be underthrown again

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I’m warming up to the idea myself. Like KOG said, what’s the worst that could happen? I see Rivers this year and I’m realizing that playing passed 40 isn’t actually normal. Brady and Brees haven’t set precedents. They are just very fortunate to be on incredible run organizations. I’m all for the idea of a taking a shot on a QB

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41 minutes ago, Halcon-1 said:

What have you seen to suggest Lawrence is worthy of the overall 1? 

Prototypical QB size, decision making, mobility, arm strength, leadership etc.  

He got off to a slow start this season but appears to have bounced back. That’s a huge plus for him. I think part of that may have been him buying into his own hype. Which happens with men his age. This is a good lesson for him to learn at this point in his life. 

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1 hour ago, *Old Pappy Falcon* said:

Spot on Sidekick! Great stuff!!! 100 percent agree!

Thank you. There are people in this board that want us to wait until Ryan retires before we draft a QB. This is done purely out of nostalgia. Can you imagine a fully healed Tua, learning under Ryan for the next few years. 

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6 minutes ago, JD dirtybird21 said:

I’m warming up to the idea myself. Like KOG said, what’s the worst that could happen? I see Rivers this year and I’m realizing that playing passed 40 isn’t actually normal. Brady and Brees haven’t set precedents. They are just very fortunate to be on incredible run organizations. I’m all for the idea of a taking a shot on a QB

Agree. I think a lot of people use Brady as the standard for old QBs, when he’s the outlier. Not to mention the Patriots are MASTERS at hiding weaknesses.

Brees is one of the best QBs to ever live. Not to mention he’s put in a system that is perfect for him. 

Love Ryan but he isn’t in a system that can hide his weaknesses. His biggest strength is his football acumen. Which can help minimize his decline over the next few years, but eventually his physical gifts will decline to the point that having him under center will be a liability. 

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46 minutes ago, Spts1 said:

I couldn't take another 5 to 8 years of noodle arm and noodle legs.  You can sack Ryan with your pinky finger...

He didn't mirror your description in the last 2 games.

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1 hour ago, Sidecar Falcon said:

Problem with that is that Lawrence will go #1 overall in his respective draft. As bad as we have been, I don’t see us being THAT bad unless Ryan sustains some sort of season ending injury. 

Honestly I love Ryan but his talent has always been his football acumen and not necessarily his physical tools. I think Ryan has a good 2-3 years left at his current play, with minimal decline. After that point I think we’ll see a noticeable regression. 

That being said, I think that we should draft a QB successor sooner rather than later. This year may be the perfect opportunity to strike. If we somehow manage to finish 7-9, we should be picking in the middle of the draft. At that point it may be the best opportunity to go BPA. If Tua is still there, draft him. If we lose out the remainder of this season, wait until the 2nd round and see if he’s still there. 

The reasoning for this is that Tua will not have to start right away. This will allow him to actually heal his body correctly and fully. Tua will have the opportunity to absorb the playbook, speed, and learn from Ryan for the next 2-3 years before he is called upon.

At that point he should be able to come in with minimal learning curve ahead of him. Not to mention he already has a built in rapport with Ridley. This should allow our offense to keep ticking as we continue to rebuild our defense. 

3 issues with this, if not more.

1) Having a QB on the bench "learning the playbook" doesn't mean that the playbook he is learning will be the same one he will have once he starts. Look at how many OCs Ryan has had over the last decade. He was learning a new offense every 2-3 years. Not really such a thing as "learning the playbook" in todays NFL as coaches get fired or hired away frequently.

2) Teams now expect their QBs to play. You dont see the Aaron Rodgers scenario anymore. Cam, Goff, Wentz, Trubisky, Murray, Darnold, all these young guys played right off. QBs are expected to start at some point their first year.

3) Sitting is a waste of Cap savings opportunity. With a young QB on a rookie contract, you get the luxury of having the highest paid position at a fixed low cost for the first 4 years. This is exactly how the Rams flexed their muscle in the past few years with big defensive signing. Once you have your "proven" QB and year 5+ comes along, you are absolutely paying the $20+ mill a year.

Sitting and developing QBs is old school thinking that isn't followed in the NFL anymore.

 

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29 minutes ago, FalconsFanSince194eva said:

Good pocket QBs play for 20 years now. 

I think that’s a bit of a hyperbolic statement. Brady is at 19 years in the league. And he’s been showing his age this season. Last QB I remember playing 20+ years was Vinny Testaverde, but he wasn’t a starter for a good amount of those years. Favre played 20 but his first season wasn’t really much of a season. 
 

An important aspect to remember is that players like Brady/Brees are outliers and not the standard. I think Ryan has about 2-3 years left at his current level of play (with minimal decline), before we see a noticeable regression. I think a more accurate number would be about 15 years. 

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6 hours ago, Spts1 said:

At one time I wanted Trevor Lawrence.  Not anymore.  He looks exactly like Jay Cutler 2.0...  He gonna put up a ton of yardage... and a TON of interceptions.   Justin Fields is who they should pick if they have a top pick next season.  The question about whether the Falcons should draft Ryan's replacement is yes.  The rest of the NFL is moving to mobile quarterbacks who have very good arms...

Yeah, we’ve had our mobile QB with a cannon.
 

Burrow has enough mobility for me.  But the dream scenerio of him being in a Falcons uniform is gone.  
 

With that said, I’ll take winning 7 of 8 games over drafting Burrow anyways

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4 minutes ago, runshoot said:

3 issues with this, if not more.

1) Having a QB on the bench "learning the playbook" doesn't mean that the playbook he is learning will be the same one he will have once he starts. Look at how many OCs Ryan has had over the last decade. He was learning a new offense every 2-3 years. Not really such a thing as "learning the playbook" in todays NFL as coaches get fired or hired away frequently.

2) Teams now expect their QBs to play. You dont see the Aaron Rodgers scenario anymore. Cam, Goff, Wentz, Trubisky, Murray, Darnold, all these young guys played right off. QBs are expected to start at some point their first year.

3) Sitting is a waste of Cap savings opportunity. With a young QB on a rookie contract, you get the luxury of having the highest paid position at a fixed low cost for the first 4 years. This is exactly how the Rams flexed their muscle in the past few years with big defensive signing. Once you have your "proven" QB and year 5+ comes along, you are absolutely paying the $20+ mill a year.

Sitting and developing QBs is old school thinking that isn't followed in the NFL anymore.

 

Maholmes?

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9 minutes ago, Sidecar Falcon said:

I think that’s a bit of a hyperbolic statement. Brady is at 19 years in the league. And he’s been showing his age this season. Last QB I remember playing 20+ years was Vinny Testaverde, but he wasn’t a starter for a good amount of those years. Favre played 20 but his first season wasn’t really much of a season. 
 

An important aspect to remember is that players like Brady/Brees are outliers and not the standard. I think Ryan has about 2-3 years left at his current level of play (with minimal decline), before we see a noticeable regression. I think a more accurate number would be about 15 years. 

I was over zealous, so I agree, I still think Matt will play until his 17 year mark. Which is 5 years away.

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8 minutes ago, FalconsIn2012 said:

Maholmes?

I mean facts are facts. 1 offs don't mean much. Drew lock was injured, so he doesnt qualify.

Mayfield, Darnold, Allen, Rosen, Trubisky, Winston, Mariota, Blake Bortles, D watson, Lamar Jackson, Wentz, Goff, Murray, Daniel Jones, Dwayne haskins even Paxton Lynch...goes on and on and thats just since 2014. Teams drafts QBs to play. Not sit and learn. Not squander cap savings potential. 

It's not a thing anymore.

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1 minute ago, runshoot said:

3 issues with this, if not more.

1) Having a QB on the bench "learning the playbook" doesn't mean that the playbook he is learning will be the same one he will have once he starts. Look at how many OCs Ryan has had over the last decade. He was learning a new offense every 2-3 years. Not really such a thing as "learning the playbook" in todays NFL as coaches get fired or hired away frequently.

2) Teams now expect their QBs to play. You dont see the Aaron Rodgers scenario anymore. Cam, Goff, Wentz, Trubisky, Murray, Darnold, all these young guys played right off. QBs are expected to start at some point their first year.

3) Sitting is a waste of Cap savings opportunity. With a young QB on a rookie contract, you get the luxury of having the highest paid position at a fixed low cost for the first 4 years. This is exactly how the Rams flexed their muscle in the past few years with big defensive signing. Once you have your "proven" QB and year 5+ comes along, you are absolutely paying the $20+ mill a year.

Sitting and developing QBs is old school thinking that isn't followed in the NFL anymore.

 


1) To your point, there’s no guarantee that the same coach will be there. However the learning aspect is still there. Whether it be concepts, schemes, reads, timing, etc. That all plays into a QBs ability to learn systems. Not to mention the biggest benefit would be learning from Ryan and his knowledge of the game.
 

2) With the exception of Cam. Look at the track record for each of the QBs listed and tell me if they would have benefited from sitting and learning under Ryan? Also look at the position they were drafted. Most of them were the first overall pick. And all of them were drafted top five overall. I’m talking about drafting Tua in the mid first to early second round. There’s a big difference. It’s also worth noting that a few of those QBs are severely underperforming. 
 

3) Actually it isn’t a waste of cap. We’re spending just as much on Schaub (on a per year basis) as we would for a mid 1st round selected QB. Taking a quick look at Dwayne Haskins contract his first few years are completely doable. As far as the Rams, they have been struggling A LOT this season. Their QB is in question and it effects the entire team. Weird that you would say that it isn’t followed by the NFL anymore when Andy Reid sat Patrick Mahomes his first season. He had an opportunity to learn under a Alex Smith, who wasn’t the best QB, but he was good enough for them to allow Mahomes to develop. 
 

 

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1 hour ago, FalconsIn2012 said:

I would take a flyer on Eason in round 2 if he is available.  See if Matt’s IQ rubs off while Eason sits for two years.  I know one thing, Julio would not be underthrown again

By the time Eason sees the field Julio will be done. We will need a Julio replacement before a ryan replacement... 

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Here's my QB scenario.

Churn the bottom end of the draft/UDFA for a year or 2 just on the off chance you find a nugget. See what Benkert shows us in training camp this season. I wanted Tyree Jackson this year ( big kid big arm ... didn't stick in Buffalo so he probably wouldn't have stuck here either ). Maybe sign a Rosen type in FA.

When Matt is getting around the 2-3 year mark of ending his contract start looking hard at guys in the draft then. I think when Matt is at 2 years from the end of his contract you either draft a young gunslinger or find a young QB FA like Bridgewater that you might reclaim. That gives you a couple of seasons to see what you've got and if they aren't working you still have a draft and offseason to address it. I also realize we can't just assume Matt will play to the end of his contract so waiting that long isn't prudent either unless Benkert or one of the other guys we've tried to develop ( Etling anyone?) actually pan out.

Taking someone you have to sink serious draft capital in this offseason is probably a waste of resources. Use patience and strike when the return is good. I suspect in a draft between now and Matt retiring there will be a deep QB class that we can take advantage of.

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20 minutes ago, runshoot said:

I mean facts are facts. 1 offs don't mean much. Drew lock was injured, so he doesnt qualify.

Mayfield, Darnold, Allen, Rosen, Trubisky, Winston, Mariota, Blake Bortles, D watson, Lamar Jackson, Wentz, Goff, Murray, Daniel Jones, Dwayne haskins even Paxton Lynch...goes on and on and thats just since 2014. Teams drafts QBs to play. Not sit and learn. Not squander cap savings potential. 

It's not a thing anymore.

Some of those QBs didn’t start immediately. A lot of them sat a few games into the season. Almost all of them was drafted because their team didn’t have a QB.

You’re kind of forced to start when you’re the best player at the position on your team.

Not to mention there’s a few of them are top 5 picks. So that’s pretty much a given you’re going to be starting if you have to draft a QB that high.

If the suggestion you’re making is that you should only draft a QB when you don’t have one, or, the one you have is absolutely terrible. That’s not a good way to have sustained success in the league. 

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31 minutes ago, FalconsFanSince194eva said:

I was over zealous, so I agree, I still think Matt will play until his 17 year mark. Which is 5 years away.

I agree. I think he can play that long as well in the league. Problem would be his play vs contract demands. 

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2 minutes ago, Sidecar Falcon said:


1) To your point, there’s no guarantee that the same coach will be there. However the learning aspect is still there. Whether it be concepts, schemes, reads, timing, etc. That all plays into a QBs ability to learn systems. Not to mention the biggest benefit would be learning from Ryan and his knowledge of the game.
 

2) With the exception of Cam. Look at the track record for each of the QBs listed and tell me if they would have benefited from sitting and learning under Ryan? Also look at the position they were drafted. Most of them were the first overall pick. And all of them were drafted top five overall. I’m talking about drafting Tua in the mid first to early second round. There’s a big difference. It’s also worth noting that a few of those QBs are severely underperforming. 
 

3) Actually it isn’t a waste of cap. We’re spending just as much on Schaub (on a per year basis) as we would for a mid 1st round selected QB. Taking a quick look at Dwayne Haskins contract his first few years are completely doable. As far as the Rams, they have been struggling A LOT this season. Their QB is in question and it effects the entire team. Weird that you would say that it isn’t followed by the NFL anymore when Andy Reid sat Patrick Mahomes his first season. He had an opportunity to learn under a Alex Smith, who wasn’t the best QB, but he was good enough for them to allow Mahomes to develop. 
 

 

I get your point and sure there are some merits to it. Im just letting you know , its not a thing.

The NFL disagrees with you, is my point. Again outside of Mahomes, since 2014 there are no teams that sat a drafted QB for a year or more and who later became the starter. 

Kyle Allen and Taysom Hill were undrafted. You can't expect someone to think Mason Rudolph would be starting if Ben wasnt hurt. Are you suggesting Ryan Finley is an example? 29 of 61 . thats 47% and 141yards per game with 1 TD. Doesn't really prove your point of drafting , sitting and learning as successful.

It is ultra rare. I mean if 2014 isnt good enough we can pull more drafted QB names and they all started. Geno Smith. EJ Manual, Luck, Tannehill, RG3. You can believe what you want thats fine, but the evidence is there.

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17 minutes ago, Sidecar Falcon said:


1) To your point, there’s no guarantee that the same coach will be there. However the learning aspect is still there. Whether it be concepts, schemes, reads, timing, etc. That all plays into a QBs ability to learn systems. Not to mention the biggest benefit would be learning from Ryan and his knowledge of the game.
 

2) With the exception of Cam. Look at the track record for each of the QBs listed and tell me if they would have benefited from sitting and learning under Ryan? Also look at the position they were drafted. Most of them were the first overall pick. And all of them were drafted top five overall. I’m talking about drafting Tua in the mid first to early second round. There’s a big difference. It’s also worth noting that a few of those QBs are severely underperforming. 
 

3) Actually it isn’t a waste of cap. We’re spending just as much on Schaub (on a per year basis) as we would for a mid 1st round selected QB. Taking a quick look at Dwayne Haskins contract his first few years are completely doable. As far as the Rams, they have been struggling A LOT this season. Their QB is in question and it effects the entire team. Weird that you would say that it isn’t followed by the NFL anymore when Andy Reid sat Patrick Mahomes his first season. He had an opportunity to learn under a Alex Smith, who wasn’t the best QB, but he was good enough for them to allow Mahomes to develop. 
 

 

The cap savings he's speaking of is the wasting of rookie contract years. You will get one year out of them and then have to sign them to a big contract. 

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7 minutes ago, Sidecar Falcon said:

Some of those QBs didn’t start immediately. A lot of them sat a few games into the season. Almost all of them was drafted because their team didn’t have a QB.

You’re kind of forced to start when you’re the best player at the position on your team.

Not to mention there’s a few of them are top 5 picks. So that’s pretty much a given you’re going to be starting if you have to draft a QB that high.

If the suggestion you’re making is that you should only draft a QB when you don’t have one, or, the one you have is absolutely terrible. That’s not a good way to have sustained success in the league. 

Again Im telling you the reality of the NFL. Not my opinion of the NFL or its handling of young QBs. 

You said it yourself. sat a few games. They start games their rookie year. There is no "hey let Matt play his last year or 2 and let QB X learn.

Additionally you said teams drafted them because they didnt have a QB. So what do teams that have a QB do? They don't draft back ups. Thats the exact point Im making and you are also supporting the statement. 

You can wish it, but its not a thing the NFL does. Dont hate the messenger.

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