FalconsIn2012

Blank on Koetter Hire: LOL

92 posts in this topic

27 minutes ago, JDaveG said:

I like Koetter.  But there is nothing about that hire that makes sense.

And I tried to make sense of it.  It's been nothing like I expected.  No identity.  And that is, if not by design, at least systemic.

I hated the Koetter rehire. I don’t think his philosophies mesh well with the talent on this team, particularly Matt, or the league in general as defensive lines become increasingly better than o lines (as a whole). 
 

In Koetter’s defense, the talent at RB of basically all of the teams he has coached over the last 5-6 years has been mediocre at best and his teams constantly played from behind in Tampa and so far this year. Steven Jackson, Jacquizz Rodgers, Peyton Barber, a used up Devonta Freeman... and others. 

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27 minutes ago, Butudontseeme™ said:

I hated the Koetter rehire. I don’t think his philosophies mesh well with the talent on this team, particularly Matt, or the league in general as defensive lines become increasingly better than o lines (as a whole). 
 

In Koetter’s defense, the talent at RB of basically all of the teams he has coached over the last 5-6 years has been mediocre at best and his teams constantly played from behind in Tampa and so far this year. Steven Jackson, Jacquizz Rodgers, Peyton Barber, a used up Devonta Freeman... and others. 

the OL needs to jell and improve with Lindstrom and another draft pick next yr plus acquire a better rb than what we have now....don't expect so much when you don't have so much to work within the running gm. I'm sure DK could do somewhat better with the right fits.

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43 minutes ago, FalconsIn2012 said:

Was Ryan better year 2 or even year 3 under Koetter last time around?

He was better in year 3 (2014) than in year 2 (2013), but we have to keep in mind that 2013 Falcons team regardless of coordinators wasn’t making the playoffs with the huge turnover in roster they had after 2012 and all the veterans who had left. The O-line and Steven Jackson in 2013 weren’t getting us anywhere. Combine that with the injuries too. The 2014 Falcons had the 32nd ranked D and Matt Ryan had a better year in the first year without Gonzalez, but our O-line was still mediocre at the same time.

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44 minutes ago, Butudontseeme™ said:

I hated the Koetter rehire. I don’t think his philosophies mesh well with the talent on this team, particularly Matt, or the league in general as defensive lines become increasingly better than o lines (as a whole). 
 

In Koetter’s defense, the talent at RB of basically all of the teams he has coached over the last 5-6 years has been mediocre at best and his teams constantly played from behind in Tampa and so far this year. Steven Jackson, Jacquizz Rodgers, Peyton Barber, a used up Devonta Freeman... and others. 

And Tevin Coleman, Matt Breida, and Raheem Mostert (SF backs) are miles better?

Do the names Aaron Jones, Jamaal Williams, and whoever the third string back on Green Bay's roster is inspire fear?

We need to poach Mike McDaniel from San Francisco and promote him to OC (like we should have done two years ago when Shanny left). He'll probably only last a year before some other team looks to promote him to HC, but we need to get back to what made the offense one of the best in league history, and McDaniel knows it.

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53 minutes ago, FalconsIn2012 said:

Was Ryan better year 2 or even year 3 under Koetter last time around?

Let me go ahead and throw this out too. I don’t believe the Koetter hire was a good decision. If you were trying to replace Sark I think rehiring Koetter was not a good idea and I blame Quinn for it, but considering how bad the defense was in the 1-7 start, our reshuffled O-line with 2 rookies who’ve been banged up all year, our running back depth taking a huge nose dive with the loss of Coleman to the 49ers, Freeman past his prime, Ito Smith out for the year, and Brian Hill. Sanu gone to the Patriots. I don’t think Koetter has been bad so far, not great, but decent enough for his first year back. 

Edited by mqg96

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17 hours ago, jamesmasen said:

Haven't seen much of a reason to run the ball honestly 

This.

Sooooooooooo much being taken out of context with the thought process expressed by a lot of folks in this thread.

First off, the NFL has been becoming more pass heavy for years, so it should be a no brainer that we pass more than we run.

Second, we have a top 5 QB w/ the best WR in the game, plus a top 5 TE and a very solid #2 WR. We don't have giant Earthmovers on the o-line, our top 2 RBs can't stay healthy & their backups have proven to be nothing special thus far. So again, should be a no-brainer that we'd lean toward passing given the make up of the team.

Third, it's silly to just look at the number of rush plays vs pass plays without considering that the defense was horrible until two weeks ago, so we were often playing catch up & forced to mostly abandon the run.

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18 minutes ago, Atl Falcon said:

the OL needs to jell and improve with Lindstrom and another draft pick next yr plus acquire a better rb than what we have now....don't expect so much when you don't have so much to work within the running gm. I'm sure DK could do somewhat better with the right fits.

Dirk picked the groceries in Tampa and couldnt run the ball there either.

At some point people have to stop making excuses for his horrible offense. He ran the ball in Jacksonville a decade ago. Since then, he has functionally ruined the run game every where he went.

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13 minutes ago, No.11 said:

And Tevin Coleman, Matt Breida, and Raheem Mostert (SF backs) are miles better?

Do the names Aaron Jones, Jamaal Williams, and whoever the third string back on Green Bay's roster is inspire fear?

We need to poach Mike McDaniel from San Francisco and promote him to OC (like we should have done two years ago when Shanny left). He'll probably only last a year before some other team looks to promote him to HC, but we need to get back to what made the offense one of the best in league history, and McDaniel knows it.

The Cardinals tried that this offseason & Shanny blocked them from interviewing McDaniel.

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2 hours ago, Francis York Morgan said:

Lmaoooo

Yeah, Koetter wasn't Quinn's guy. Full stop.

I never quite bought the notion that AB was a mettlesome owner but :lol: yeah. This quote and the answer DQ gave the other day in the presser about bringing Keotter makes it absolutely seem like a decision made over his head.

I’m almost 100% sure now that DQ is coming back next year if the defense keeps balling. 

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I don’t like Koetter but not because of his “balance”. Couldn’t care less about being balanced nor do I think it’s necessary, much in the same way a strong run game is not needed for effective PA

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43 minutes ago, PeytonMannings Forehead said:

I never quite bought the notion that AB was a mettlesome owner but :lol: yeah. This quote and the answer DQ gave the other day in the presser about bringing Keotter makes it absolutely seem like a decision made over his head.

I’m almost 100% sure now that DQ is coming back next year if the defense keeps balling. 

Kind of disheartening to me. Was hoping he wasn’t a meddling owner.  Not good news.

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51 minutes ago, PeytonMannings Forehead said:

I never quite bought the notion that AB was a mettlesome owner but :lol: yeah. This quote and the answer DQ gave the other day in the presser about bringing Keotter makes it absolutely seem like a decision made over his head.

I’m almost 100% sure now that DQ is coming back next year if the defense keeps balling. 

It’s how I see things as well...

 

Meanwhile, back to some balance.  I’m not saying 50-50 ratio is needed, but a run-pass ratio of 40-60 seems prudent.  But 28-72 isn’t where it’s at

 

 

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3 hours ago, Smiler11 said:

I thought the Bucs were one of the least balanced teams over the last 3 years.

Their QB is one of the most unbalanced people in the game.

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32 minutes ago, Osiruz said:

12 Remember when you and I got castigated for wanting Bevel? Man I so wish we had him atm. 

I was called stupid more than once for this thread

 

On 12/31/2018 at 8:45 PM, FalconsIn2012 said:

For the record, yes, Kubiak or Gase would be my preference.  But it’s looking like neither is viable at this point so it’s time to look at option #3, Bevell.  His name is causing angst for most TATF’ers...but he is a very good young coach.  Given a good quarterback, decent OL and a solid receiving corps, he can get the job done quite well.  So take a look.  Note that the 3 years he had a good QB and decent receivers, his offenses were dynamic

 

Let’s take a look at Bevell through the years.

2006 – Bevell’s first year as an offensive coordinator, he inherited the 26th ranked offense according to Football Outsiders DVOA and made it worse, dropping the Vikings, led by Chester Taylorand Brad Johnson, to 31st in offensive DVOA.

2007 – Drafting rookie running back Adrian Peterson, turning to Tavaris Jackson as the quarterback, the Vikings offense moved up to 16th in offensive DVOA, but had the number three rushing attack according to FO. That was up from 22 the year before. Maybe more impressively, with Jackson taking over at QB, the Vikings progressed from 31st in passing to 22nd. Their top receiver was Bobby Wade, that’s why the move up was impressive. The strength of the offense was clearly the running game, as rookie Adrian Peterson (1,341) and Chester Taylor (844) combined for nearly 2200 rushing yards.

2008 – Gus Frerotte would be the next quarterback of the Vikings and it didn’t matter. The Vikings finished 10-6 and road Adrian Peterson to 1,760 yards and 10 touchdowns on the ground. Their top receiver? Bobby Wade. Despite Peterson, the offensive DVOA fell to 25th, maybe a quarterback was needed.

 

2009 - A quarterback? A quarterback! Brett Favrethrew for 4,202 yards, 33 touchdowns and only seven interceptions, Adrian Peters ran for 1,383 yards and 18 touchdowns and added 43 catches for 436 yards. Sidney Rice had 1,312 yards and eight touchdowns and the Vikings finished eighth in offensive DVOA for the season.

2010 – Things went south in 2010, the quarterback position again became an issue and the Vikings, behind 1,298 yards and 12 touchdowns from Adrian Peterson dropped to 27th in offensive DVOA.

2011 – Moving to Seattle and the Seahawks, Bevell took the Seahawks offense from 29th to 22nd, behind a strong run game with Marshawn Lynch, but the problem was the quarterback position.

 

2012 – Rookie Russell Wilson steps in and the Seahawks vault to the fourth ranked offense according to DVOA, including the top rushing attack, as Marshawn Lynch has 1,590 yards and 11 touchdowns. The Seahawks as a team rush for 2,579 yards, third most in the NFL.

2013 – Russell Wilson improves on his Pro Bowlrookie year, throwing for 3,357 yards, 26 touchdowns to only nine interceptions and Marshawn Lynch runs for 1,257 yards and 12 touchdowns as the Seahawks roll to their first Super Bowl with Football Outsiders seventh ranked offensive DVOA.

2014 – The beginning of the end for Bevell, as he is lambasted for his Super Bowl blunder of calling a pass on the goal line with a chance to win the game for the Seahawks. Despite the Hawks finishing fifth in offensive DVOA, including being the top rushing offense again per Football Outsiders, the time in the sun is fading for Bevell.

 

2015 – Russell Wilson explodes for his first 4,000 yard season, throws 34 touchdowns to only eight interceptions and little known Thomas Rawls runs for 830 yards and six touchdowns on only 147 carries, good enough for 5.6 yards per attempt, finishing atop the DVOA mountain offensively for the first time. It didn’t stop Seahawks fans from being ready to move on from Bevell.

2016 and 2017 – The wheels have come off. With no running game to speak of and mounting issues along the offensive line, the Seahawks offense stumbles to 16th in offensive DVOA in 2016 and 14th in 2017.

Despite the foundation planted and subsequent growth of Russell Wilson at the quarterback position, Wilson’s numbers improved every year except for 2016, Bevell’s shine had worn off. His offenses began to falter and the mistakes of 2014 had caught up. A two-time winning Super Bowl offensive coordinator has much more rope than a one-time winner who made one of the most baffling calls of all-time in the Super Bowl.

 

Here are some amazing numbers from Bevell the OC though.

Bevell’s offenses have finished inside the top ten of rushing in 7 of 12 seasons as an OC and 16th or higher in 9 of 12 seasons.

Bevell’s offenses have finished inside the top ten in scoring in 5 of 12 seasons and inside the top 15 in 8 of 12 seasons.

 

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Meanwhile Bevells lions have exactly the same number of wins as the falcons.

And he single handily cost them the cards game.

And lion fans are as annoyed by him as some falcon fans are annoyed by DK

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29 minutes ago, Falcons Fan MVP said:

I think Matt Ryan and possibly Julio Jones recommended Dirk Koetter to come back.

This is my thinking as well.

Seems like Koetter wasn't necessarily the coaching staff or front office's ideal choice, but once they couldn't get who they wanted (Kubiak perhaps?) they went w/ what they felt was their best option based on input from their key offensive players.

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51 minutes ago, falconsd56 said:

Meanwhile Bevells lions have exactly the same number of wins as the falcons.

And he single handily cost them the cards game.

And lion fans are as annoyed by him as some falcon fans are annoyed by DK

I mean, their QB broke his back...before that, their offense was on a nice little roll.   Bevell has done more with far less than Koetter this year
 

Lions Scoring With Stanford:

- 27, 13, 27, 30, 22, 30, 31, 24

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2 minutes ago, FalconsIn2012 said:

I mean, their QB broke his back...before that, their offense was on a nice little roll

We have had a revolving door on the oline due to injuries.

We were down to 3rd string running back and our probowl TE was out.

 

If he gets an injury pass then so does DK

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2 minutes ago, falconsd56 said:

We have had a revolving door on the oline due to injuries.

We were down to 3rd string running back and our probowl TE was out.

 

If he gets an injury pass then so does DK

Fair.  Even accounting for the games without Stafford, the Lions are 8th in total offense and 10th in scoring offense on the year.  Pretty nice work by Bevell

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