JDaveG

Culture, part 2.....

87 posts in this topic

12 minutes ago, FalconBlood23 said:

This is something that Morris wanted himself, not that DQ put him there of his own mind. Morris himself requested to be the WR coach and DQ obliged. He did this to be a better overall coach, is what Morris said. 

And he was **** good at his job.  Morris is a very smart person

Its not unusual for coaches to switch from offense to defense.  Belichick started off as a ST’s coach with Colts and then receivers/tight end coach for the Lions I think

 

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47 minutes ago, JD dirtybird21 said:

I'm not anti Mularkey either but we need some serious upgrade of RB if we go that route. Like a star. Someone like Turner

I think we need that anyway. I think Hill or Ollison might be decent #2 or 3 backs.

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15 minutes ago, MSalmon said:

I think we need that anyway. I think Hill or Ollison might be decent #2 or 3 backs.

See and I actually think it’s not necessary to have a star back in an outside zone blocking scheme. You can have success with guys like Steve Slaton, Alfred Morris, and Orlandis Gary

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1 hour ago, JD dirtybird21 said:

See and I actually think it’s not necessary to have a star back in an outside zone blocking scheme. You can have success with guys like Steve Slaton, Alfred Morris, and Orlandis Gary

That’s what made mike Shanahan so annoying to deal with even after Terrell Davis they always produced 

Edited by SPITFIRE

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1 minute ago, SPITFIRE said:

That’s what made mine Shanahan so annoying to deal with even after Terrell Davis they always produced 

Is Alex Gibbs still alive.  If so, let’s give him a call again.  He is a re-hire I could support.  Always loved his quote:

“We run zone wide and tight, and that is it. If you want to run something else, do not call me and ask for help." -Gibbs

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I would love it if the crappy 1st half of the season was due to political dysfunction in the falcons org.

 That would mean DQ is still the awesome coach I thought he was. 
 

I’m not fully convinced, but here’s hoping.

 Here are several weird things that don’t sound like DQ decisions:

* 1 st 2 picks being o line when we needed D help

 *hiring dirk

* the strange defense we ran, 5-2 or whatever, the first half of season

* extending Beasley at full pay

 probably forgetting some....

Edited by DriveHomeSafelyAtlantaWins
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On 11/19/2019 at 10:36 AM, Sun Tzu 7 said:

Let's look at it this way.

We all heard before  the Saints game Morris was moving back over to the secondary.  I said it was like throwing deck chairs off the Titanic.

Now imagine pitching that knowing full and well your job is on the line.  'I'm going to fix everything with this horrible defense by moving a couple of coaches around.'

We were skeptic as fans.  Imagine if you're the guy writing the million dollar checks.

By 1-7 Blank may have been skeptical of Quinn's decision making progress when it came to the defense.

My thoughts exactly. I mean, of course Quinn has to “sell” Blank, his bad coaching up to that point had team at 1-7. 
 

If I ever screwed it up this badly, my cred would be so low I’d have to “sell” whatever changes I proposed to fix things to my higher ups too. That’s how the world works.

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5 hours ago, FalconsIn2012 said:

 

Can’t see Belichick having to sell anything to Kraft...or Payton to Benson..or Tomlin to Rooney’s....only one I can think of is Garrett to Jones.

And Jones wanted to draft Johnny Manziel over  Zach Martin.  Owners should be silent owners with regards to anything football related

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/page/hotread180105/beginning-end-new-england-patriots-robert-kraft-tom-brady-bill-belichick-internal-power-struggle

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5 hours ago, Vandy said:

Wow! I didn't know that all of this went on.

What a round robin of a power struggle--each one having some power over the other

They are about as dysfunctional as a group can get

 

 

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8 hours ago, JD dirtybird21 said:

See and I actually think it’s not necessary to have a star back in an outside zone blocking scheme. You can have success with guys like Steve Slaton, Alfred Morris, and Orlandis Gary

Yep if Justin Forsett can nie on lead the league in rushing I’m with thee above.Personally I think Free still has the juice to get it done also.

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The guy in my avatar knows what this locker room culture change is all about. Falcons have never lost a game with him on the roster.

Give Ryan Allen a captain patch!

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55 minutes ago, TXAintsHater said:

The guy in my avatar knows what this locker room culture change is all about. Falcons have never lost a game with him on the roster.

Give Ryan Allen a captain patch!

Then why the **** wasn’t he your avatar for SB 51?????   lol

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5 hours ago, rounz said:

Wow! I didn't know that all of this went on.

What a round robin of a power struggle--each one having some power over the other

They are about as dysfunctional as a group can get

 

 

Yet everyone points to Pats as some model franchise on owner/management culture.

Good/great coaching overrules egos, culture, ownership meddling, and everything else.....

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12 hours ago, Vandy said:

The Brady situation was unique.  He is the GOAT and completely sown into the fabric and fanbase of NE...just as Belichick is.  The two are nearly equals within the organization.  Bill’s attempted coup of keeping Jimmy G to replace Brady (probably this year or last) was always going to cause ripples.  And Brady vetoing the plan by leveraging his relationship with Kraft was also going to cause ripples.  
 

But that’s not same/similar as having to sell your owner on changing the playcaller or making changes to positional coaches.

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13 minutes ago, FalconsIn2012 said:

The Brady situation was unique.  He is the GOAT and completely sown into the fabric and fanbase of NE...just as Belichick is.  The two are nearly equals within the organization.  Bill’s attempted coup of keeping Jimmy G to replace Brady (probably this year or last) was always going to cause ripples.  And Brady vetoing the plan by leveraging his relationship with Kraft was also going to cause ripples.  
 

But that’s not same/similar as having to sell your owner on changing the playcaller or making changes to positional coaches.

And I think that's a whole bunch of conjecture on ya'lls part....

Blank's not why this team has under-performed this season to a 3-7 record. Come on, man. 

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On 11/19/2019 at 8:55 AM, JDaveG said:

I don't think anything about this is a conspiracy.  I'm commenting on a line in an ESPN article that makes no sense at all:

"Quinn had to sell Blank on altering some aspect of his program in hopes of triggering a spark."

And I'm looking at it in light of the same chaotic stuff we saw in 2014, when the coaching staff seemed to be at odds to even describe, much less implement, what we were trying to do on defense.  

I'm not saying you aren't right -- it absolutely could be that DQ is behind all this.  But I think there are reasons to think he isn't -- Koetter's hiring in particular.  Too much about this doesn't make sense.  If it didn't look familiar, I'd chalk it up to a weird coach.  But I'll say again, it seems to me there is a reason every single coach Mr. Blank has hired, save Petrino who wasn't here long enough, has some immediate, short term success, and then falls off.  It could be he's hiring the wrong coaches.  But I think there is good reason to believe it's because he has too many fingers in the pie.

I don't have a lot of faith in the veracity or credibility of ESPN or its writers. Although I believe they're probably very accurate with facts, I think this is more supposition and inference that this writer knows anything at all about how much Blank is involved with the day-to-day operations of the team.

Koetter's hiring isn't that much of a red herring he was Blank's guy. I would say it was probably almost a unanimous decision by everybody. Ryan had already worked with Koetter, no new offense to be learned. Koetter is intimately familiar with every team in the NFC South. He has OC and HC experience to take over all responsibilities on the offensive side of the football so Quinn could focus on defense.

But there is no avoiding the fact our HC's often enjoy immediate success, only to fall off a cliff not too far down the road. Interference from Blank could well be the cause, because if your boss tells you to do something, even if you don't particularly think it makes sense or is going to work, you do it anyway. If that is the situation, we can only hope Blank will figure out he's just sabotaging the team and his HC by being too involved and will back tf off and let them do their job.

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18 minutes ago, Vandy said:

And I think that's a whole bunch of conjecture on ya'lls part....

Blank's not why this team has under-performed this season to a 3-7 record. Come on, man. 

Ultimately the coaches & players are what wins games.  Moving to a 5-2 was on Quinn.  But if Blank asked Quinn to take on DC role, Blank was part of the problem.

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11 minutes ago, FalconsIn2012 said:

Ultimately the coaches & players are what wins games.  Moving to a 5-2 was on Quinn.  But if Blank asked Quinn to take on DC role, Blank was part of the problem.

I agree with the first part. That’s a mighty big if on the 2nd. 

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21 hours ago, falconfansince66 said:

My biggest gripe was why did we have Raheem Morris coaching WR's when DB's and Secondaries have always been his specialty? 

Yep. If it ain't broke...

 

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1 hour ago, Vandy said:

I agree with the first part. That’s a mighty big if on the 2nd. 

Do you really think Quinn wanted Manuel fired? Do you think he wanted the headache of being DC in title and job requirements?  I really don’t. But it just an educated guess 

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47 minutes ago, FalconsIn2012 said:

Do you really think Quinn wanted Manuel fired? Do you think he wanted the headache of being DC in title and job requirements?  I really don’t. But it just an educated guess 

You and I discussed Manuel and Sark were sacrificial scapegoats last year. 
 

So unless Quinn was just flat out lying all offseason, yes I do. Did we all just forget he did the exact same thing 2nd half of 2016? So now when it doesn’t work, we blame Blank? Come on bro.
 

And DQ seemed genuinely excited assuming that dual role, as was most of TAFT.  I think it’s quite the stretch to imply/put any of this on the owner.

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2 hours ago, Vandy said:

You and I discussed Manuel and Sark were sacrificial scapegoats last year. 
 

So unless Quinn was just flat out lying all offseason, yes I do. Did we all just forget he did the exact same thing 2nd half of 2016? So now when it doesn’t work, we blame Blank? Come on bro.
 

And DQ seemed genuinely excited assuming that dual role, as was most of TAFT.  I think it’s quite the stretch to imply/put any of this on the owner.

I think you're missing a key ingredient though.  The turnaround.

Let's say Quinn is an awful coach.  Let's say the players can't play.  Let's say this team is as bad as 1-7 looked.  How did they turn it around?  Someone else (I forgot who) said Ulbrich has been calling plays for weeks.  That wasn't it.  Morris switched to DBs and they communicate better now, granted.  That obviously was a huge help.  But the scheme has changed too, and changed back to more what it was before.  This team is built for that scheme.  So why are we running something else?  Why are we not sticking with it?

If the answer is "because Quinn can't coach" I don't buy that.  Too many players and NFL coaches say otherwise.  Players on this team say otherwise.  And the response of the team to the changes that were made at the bye says otherwise.  

It's not that the turnaround is evidence of anything in a vacuum.  Sometimes teams start to figure it out.  sometimes schemes take time to gel.  But this?  It's not just rare.  It's honestly unprecedented.  Not that the team goes on to win in the 2nd half, but that they looked like one of the 3 worst teams in the league for 8 games and now look like legitimate Super Bowl contenders for the last 2.

Something changed.  And it wasn't just moving Radio to the defensive side of the ball.  So combine that, the nonsensical change in quality of product we are seeing, with the discussion about Quinn having to sell Blank on the changes he wanted to make, and what I come up with is Blank and/or TD and/or McKay is/are part of the problem.  Maybe not all of it, granted.  But there were things going on beyond Dan Quinn's control that caused the team to flounder early.  Hiring Koetter.  Firing Manuel and Sark.  Drafting o-line x 2.  All of that points to mandates. It doesn't point to Quinn just forgetting how to coach football.

And as @JOEinPHX said in another thread, we've seen it before.  

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On 11/19/2019 at 2:51 PM, falconfansince66 said:

My biggest gripe was why did we have Raheem Morris coaching WR's when DB's and Secondaries have always been his specialty? 

  Brcause it BRIEFY gave a boost tp the wrs  by being coached from a diffetent perspective. Of course over time its effect on the secondary became obvious.

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On 11/19/2019 at 9:14 AM, Francis York Morgan said:

I don't think this is a conspiracy at all. I think you're dead on. And the guy who I think is largely responsible - same guy I think you're talking about - should've been fired a long time ago. Instead he got promoted. That worm needs to go, but since he's such an influential dude, I feel like AB is afraid to cut ties. Screw the competition committee. Get that poison out of Flowery Branch.

Why are you guys scared of saying Rich Mcay's name out loud.....? Is he like the scary power behind the throne or something?

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