JDaveG

Culture, part 2.....

87 posts in this topic

Im on the side that is thinking Blank had something to do with Dirk and Mularkey coming back. That was very out of character philosophy wise from what Dan wants to do on offense.

Pat Mcafee had an interview with Rex Ryan earlier this year and Rex made an interesting comment. He says when you hear a coach say we are going to play fast on D, it directly translates to "simple". That teams that claim they play fast D are teams that aren't really playing defense, they are just playing 3 or 4 plays. Rex Ryans words not mine, go watch the video. But I bring that up because I think DQ saw that his D was not working and he brought in Sutton to help with this multiplicity thing. 5-2, 3-4, 4-3 mix and it messed up our guys heads. You see now we are back to just 4-3 and magically things are better.

DQ tried to fix the D and failed. But Blank was the architect of the offense overhaul.

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2 hours ago, octoslash said:

I know nothing about Blank's involvement, but...

I think the front office put together a pretty talented group of players on defense, and figured the best thing to do with it was to design a fancy-dan (pun intended), complex method of using them.  We were going to build LOB II...unfortunately, it sucked.

When they saw it was too complex, they put the pieces, like a chessboard, back in their starting spots, sh*t-canned the fancy-dan stuff, and started over with basics and fundamentals, and are now just letting them play football.  

Just look at the tackling.  The first half of the season, not only were guys constantly out of position, but on those rare occasions when they were getting to the ball carrier, they were whiffing on the tackles, all the time every game.  Often it took four and five defenders to bring a runner down.  It was disgusting.  It made all that 'talent' look like crap.  

But now, the past couple games, we're seeing basic lineups and scheme, guys are doing their jobs, and voila!....tackles, hits, and turnovers coming out their ears.   

Let this continue...screw the future drafts...this is fun to watch.  

This right here.

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19 minutes ago, No.11 said:

A lot of people including the OP thought this move was bizarre, even for DQ. He insisted that we were going to continue running the outside zone scheme that had worked so well for us and, specifically, a scheme that Ryan thrived in. Anybody with an iota of knowledge about schemes and the coaches than run them, at the very least, had doubts about the Koetter hire. Sark may have been new to the NFL, but his offense was based on WCO concepts, which is almost entirely different from DK.

If he wanted former head NFL coaches, why not wait for Kubiak? There would have been no learning curve and he's a Super Bowl winning HC. If he wanted experience and familiarity, why not go with Bevell, another WCO coach?

OP makes a lot of sense.

****, I agree with you, the hire made was defiantly a weird one. Getting a guy to "run" a WCO when he doesn't have any XP in it and bringing back an OC back when Ice was a rookie. Just weird all around, I wouldn't have made those hires. Or even the Sark hire honestly. DQ should have gotten a prove/up-and-coming mind that actually ran a WCO in the NFL. Maybe Ice had a bigger voice on who to bring back? Maybe he wanted DK and Mularkey back himself? There are certainly questions about the hires but I, myself, do not think Blank is out here dictating what scheme to run and who to hire to run it. I doubt he is down all the way to that level of management, I dont think Blank knows that much to manage to that degree... 

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1 minute ago, FalconBlood23 said:

****, I agree with you, the hire made was defiantly a weird one. Getting a guy to "run" a WCO when he doesn't have any XP in it and bringing back an OC back when Ice was a rookie. Just weird all around, I wouldn't have made those hires. Or even the Sark hire honestly. DQ should have gotten a prove/up-and-coming mind that actually ran a WCO in the NFL. Maybe Ice had a bigger voice on who to bring back? Maybe he wanted DK and Mularkey back himself? There are certainly questions about the hires but I, myself, do not think Blank is out here dictating what scheme to run and who to hire to run it. I doubt he is down all the way to that level of management, I dont think Blank knows that much to manage to that degree... 

Sark is that prove/up-coming kinda guy....with experience. It wasn't the right hire, tho. They should have kept as many of Shanahan's assistants as they could and run that offense through them. But after the super bowl, they were sure they could get right back with an experienced coach at OC. No need to turn the keys over to a new guy. Bad idea. 

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3 minutes ago, Francis York Morgan said:

It's felt like Knapp lately. Still not a huge fan, but it's at least better

I think Knapp with full control would look pretty good. Running backs aren't very good either so that doesn't help any of the OC's

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12 minutes ago, Jesus said:

Sark is that prove/up-coming kinda guy....with experience. It wasn't the right hire, tho. They should have kept as many of Shanahan's assistants as they could and run that offense through them. But after the super bowl, they were sure they could get right back with an experienced coach at OC. No need to turn the keys over to a new guy. Bad idea. 

I will have to disagree with you about Sark. Sark was a WCO but he was that at the college level, not NFL. That to me is a huge difference in the level of playcalling. If we hired a young guy at the NFL level to run the WCO, I bet we would have seen a different level of scoring. You saw it with Sark, the guy was outcoached multiple times at the NFL level here with us. He caught on way too late, didn't punish defenses the same way Kyle did, just a completely different level of competition, if that makes sense. Also having a mediocre to **** level Oline play did not help things. 

Man, this is why people say you gotta win the big one when you are in it and not think you will be back next year because you never know what will happen. And guess what, **** happened, and it happened fast!

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57 minutes ago, FalconBlood23 said:

I will have to disagree with you about Sark. Sark was a WCO but he was that at the college level, not NFL. That to me is a huge difference in the level of playcalling. If we hired a young guy at the NFL level to run the WCO, I bet we would have seen a different level of scoring. You saw it with Sark, the guy was outcoached multiple times at the NFL level here with us. He caught on way too late, didn't punish defenses the same way Kyle did, just a completely different level of competition, if that makes sense. Also having a mediocre to **** level Oline play did not help things. 

Man, this is why people say you gotta win the big one when you are in it and not think you will be back next year because you never know what will happen. And guess what, **** happened, and it happened fast!

Right but he's the prove it guy. He has to prove he has what it takes after the firings and other issues he faced. I dont think he isnt knowledgeable but he wasn't the aggressive direction the team should have taken.

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1 hour ago, SPITFIRE said:

Kyle Shanahan did not/does not run a WCO .  

https://www.pressdemocrat.com/sports/9363613-181/grant-cohn-defining-kyle-shanahans

Hmm, so...are...we now running WCO? :ninja:

And, eh...the Dan Reeves Offense is what Kyle used? No wonder we’d want Kubiak!

;)

IMO it’s a different style of an umbrella term of WCO. It’s not a “traditional” Walsh one, Kyle’s that is. And the ZBS is an integral part of that and how he sets up his style of aggressive shot taking.

But if the core is short passes and extension of the run game, then yeah the offense Kyle ran isn’t that. That’s what @FalconsIn2012 said.

Still, I wanted Kubiak to get us back to aggressive style. Dan tried Sark for ball control and old school WCO but we didn’t have as much explosive plays and stalled in the RZ in 2017.

Did Sark have experience calling plays with his offenses in college using a ZBS?

Edited by Ergo Proxy

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2 minutes ago, Ergo Proxy said:

https://www.pressdemocrat.com/sports/9363613-181/grant-cohn-defining-kyle-shanahans

Hmm, so...are...we now running WCO? :ninja:

So, eh...the Dan Reeves Offense?

Seems like a weird hybrid right now. Smash mouth (reeves/shannahan) and 4 verts (Dirk). Some of the concepts align some dont (hence the missing outside zone) . Outside of that imo our offense does not make much sense. 

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Thing is, now that Koetter's here, if Quinn stays, I want Koetter to also stay OR promote from within.  No more shuffling the deck on offense.  

Knapp is better than whoever we bring in that is unfamiliar with our playbook, terminology, players and philosophy.  So is nearly anyone else on the offensive side of the ball.

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2 minutes ago, JDaveG said:

Thing is, now that Koetter's here, if Quinn stays, I want Koetter to also stay OR promote from within.  No more shuffling the deck on offense.  

Knapp is better than whoever we bring in that is unfamiliar with our playbook, terminology, players and philosophy.  So is nearly anyone else on the offensive side of the ball.

yes please!! at some point we have to have a consistent staff to allow our team and organization to become consistent 

 

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2 hours ago, JD dirtybird21 said:

I hope so. I'd honestly be fine with Knapp if Quinn stays. 

Agree. Not for nothing Knapp made the run gane great while he was here. And in hindsight, we know Vick was a garbage passing QB and ****** human at the time . Mattie and offensive folks now might do well under Knapp. TBH I’m not anti-mukarkey as OC either 

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25 minutes ago, JDaveG said:

Thing is, now that Koetter's here, if Quinn stays, I want Koetter to also stay OR promote from within.  No more shuffling the deck on offense.  

Knapp is better than whoever we bring in that is unfamiliar with our playbook, terminology, players and philosophy.  So is nearly anyone else on the offensive side of the ball.

Oh yeah, don’t make changes just to make them. I just think Kubiak is still a nobrainer upgrade to anyone we have and considering we tried to get him interviewed first but got denied?

If the offense doesn’t take off moving forward and keeps plodding along, that may be grounds to break it up IF Kubiak is still interested. Might get comfy in MIN tho. :shrug:

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5 hours ago, JDaveG said:

The only thing -- and I mean the ONLY thing -- that gives me pause is the ESPN article said Quinn had to "sell" Blank on the changes.

Your post makes a lot of sense, and I think in the main simpler explanations are usually the most likely.  My issue here is why is Quinn having to sell Blank on personnel changes?  Why is Blank involved in that equation at all beyond "tell me what you are doing?"

Because if he's saying "I'm not sure I want you moving Morris back to defense," that is a huge problem IMHO.

It's possible that's not what that means, or that ESPN overstated it.  Granted.

 

Can’t see Belichick having to sell anything to Kraft...or Payton to Benson..or Tomlin to Rooney’s....only one I can think of is Garrett to Jones.

And Jones wanted to draft Johnny Manziel over  Zach Martin.  Owners should be silent owners with regards to anything football related

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5 hours ago, Ergo Proxy said:

My .02 is we wanted Kubiak and once Denver blocked us we sort of had a bad Plan B with Dirk or OCs familiar with Matt.

Dan tried to have security with a guy that knows how to run the ball with his past offenses in Mularkey.

The lack of the run game has been rather troubling but consistently forcing it on first down is also not helping. IMO you only do that if you are actually good at it otherwise it’s wasting downs to burn time. Ryan called those dirty runs but if the game is out of hand you can’t do that. The defense has stepped up and allowed us to try to run the ball more basically.

Bevell at least made sense with what we were trying to accomplish offensively.

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3 hours ago, Godzilla1985 said:

Who is it you think it is JDave don’t hold back.

Jerry Jones...they buy 200 million yachts together and now Jones has sold Blank on how fun being armchair GM can be

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3 hours ago, Francis York Morgan said:

It's felt like Knapp lately. Still not a huge fan, but it's at least better

The run game is straight up Koetter, protections and all.  Outside of two shovel attempts that failed, I don’t see much, if any, Mularkey or Knapp in the run game

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1 hour ago, MSalmon said:

Agree. Not for nothing Knapp made the run gane great while he was here. And in hindsight, we know Vick was a garbage passing QB and ****** human at the time . Mattie and offensive folks now might do well under Knapp. TBH I’m not anti-mukarkey as OC either 

I'm not anti Mularkey either but we need some serious upgrade of RB if we go that route. Like a star. Someone like Turner

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1 hour ago, falconfansince66 said:

My biggest gripe was why did we have Raheem Morris coaching WR's when DB's and Secondaries have always been his specialty? 

We had Marquan Manuel who also specialized in coaching DB’s.  Morris was also great on his role as WR coach & pass game coordinator.  Morris become pass game coordinator after 2015 and played a big part in Ryan’s surge into elite of elite QB’s

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1 hour ago, falconfansince66 said:

My biggest gripe was why did we have Raheem Morris coaching WR's when DB's and Secondaries have always been his specialty? 

This is something that Morris wanted himself, not that DQ put him there of his own mind. Morris himself requested to be the WR coach and DQ obliged. He did this to be a better overall coach, is what Morris said. 

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