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FalconofShadows

One of the biggest potential issues if we win out and Quinn stays

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It would mean we are gonna be stuck with Koetter again. And even  with the defense playing allot better and the offensive  being a bit more creative Koetter still hasn't been able to bring this offense where it should he and it's obvious he cant make a run game happen with his scheme. I can live with Dan Quinn staying if team plays hard for him and will all or all but 1 game here in out. But Koetter is just tough to swallow 

Edited by FalconofShadows

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I agree. I think the fate of Koetter and Quinn can be and should be separate. This offense has not been up to par. I wasn't thrilled with him coming back. I'd bring in a young offensive coach, that way if Quinn falls flat next year you have an interim to take over. 

papachaz likes this

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I really and truly believe the biggest mistake of the offseason was letting go of Sark. His first 2 seasons were in all fairness, really pretty good. 

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Ryan is always kinda down his first year with a new OC. I think he masters the offense and feel for it in the second year. If the trend stays true all will be right again next year 

Geaux_Falcons likes this

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4 minutes ago, US-41 Falcon said:

I really and truly believe the biggest mistake of the offseason was letting go of Sark. His first 2 seasons were in all fairness, really pretty good. 

No people. Sark was never good given the talent Shanahan left for him to utilize with. Look at Sark’s PPG against teams with winning records throughout 2017 and especially 2018 and you’ll see who the real Sark was. After Sark left we shuffled our offensive line and drafted two rookies. We got rid of Coleman, and Freeman has been a shell of his former self.

 

I don’t think Koetter has been bad as people have said he is here. Our defense was atrocious the first half of the year and our run game was non-existent. Should Koetter have been the right replacement for Sark? Probably not, and that is once again on Quinn, but, we’ve seen this same show before, first year of Shanahan, first year of Sark, and now first year of Koetter back. People complain. Gonna have to keep Koetter another year rather people like it or not, but IMO of all 3, Sark was the worst in his first year compared to Shanny in ‘15 and Koetter this year.
 

Shanahan in his first year had no Alex Mack, no Sanu, and no Gabriel, and still showed promise in that 5-0 start. Koetter in his first year has a reshuffled O-line with 2 rookies, no more Coleman, no more Sanu, and a Freeman past his prime. Sark in his first year had nearly all returning players from that Super Bowl offense and the best defense of Dan Quinn’s tenure, and was bad. Sark was awful against teams with winning records in 2018 (outside of the Saints game at home). Sark was the worst period and I still stand by that.

me4falcons likes this

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13 hours ago, FalconofShadows said:

It would mean we are gonna be stuck with Koetter again. And even  with the defense playing allot better and the offensive  being a bit more creative Koetter still hasn't been able to bring this offense where it should he and it's obvious he cant make a run game happen with his scheme. I can live with Dan Quinn staying if team plays hard for him and will all or all but 1 game here in out. But Koetter is just tough to swallow 

If DK is one of the problems (I think he was) it may be a Richard Smith situation where he goes out the door. 

I've had a hunch that since the 2nd half of the Shawks game, it's been MM calling the plays and DK has only been in a supportive role or DK and MM are splitting duties. The plays are not MM plays but the cadence of the playcalling (IE: When we run, pass, take shots,etc.) feels like something from early in Matt's career. Every game before that the cadence was undeniably DK and horrible.

I think the reason we haven't heard of any changes to Offensive playcalling is that DQ won't throw anyone under the bus but himself 

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 Lets blame the OC for having 6 different starting guards, 2 RT, losing his pro bowl RB and yet still upholding 64% redzone TD a 8th in total points scored and points per game. Its already been noted in offseason threads that the offense's 414 points would have ranked higher in the seasonal rankings in all but 1 season in the last 10 years. The 2018 year was an aberration of high scoring offenses. It matters because the perspective is skewed in 2018.

Football being a team sport, the defense which also was savaged by injury was 25th in points allowed. 24 teams gave up fewer points. Directly affecting W-L. Had the defense performed at the level the Sarkesian offense did, it would have been a much different season.

So an offense that had zero offensive line, yet still scored points and produced in the redzone while the defense laid down a goose egg and someone says its Sarks fault.

Hey some people don't like facts.

 

 

Geaux_Falcons, mqg96 and papachaz like this

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I'm fine with Koetter/Mularkey/Knapp. No, it's not been flawless. But we've seen several times now the jump from year one to year two in an offense with this group. Canning them just to start over would be useless if they keep DQ. You've finally seen some creativity. You saw the run game come alive vs NO. They have to stop thinking they can recreate Kyle's offense and do their own thing. 

mqg96, Drew4719 and athell like this

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Want em all gone I’ve seen enough to know these guys aren’t it.

I haven’t seen anything that looks like a consistent running game for 2-3 seasons.

I continue to see RBs ran in the wrong places against the mantra of putting a player in his best position to succeed.

If I’m honest I’m at the stage pretty much it’s Kubiak or bust.

Ryan will have this team operating on a higher plain if this team can move the football on the ground when needs be.Not just this stick your nose in for 1-2 yards to burn clock but truely set teams up stretch them horizontally .I just don’t see it with the guys we have now.

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My biggest concern would be Quinn making unnecessary changes.

He loves to move players to new positions and he loves to move the coaching staff around or just fire them. This is a win now league and people don't adjust as quickly as he can think of changes.

The Oline is still a work in progress. It's the first year this rotating group has been together. Outside of Mack and Matthews no other player has been present for every game.

Unfortunately it takes time for everything to come together and no need for Quinn to make unnecessary changes.

Edited by FinalScore2.0

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7 hours ago, runshoot said:

 Lets blame the OC for having 6 different starting guards, 2 RT, losing his pro bowl RB and yet still upholding 64% redzone TD a 8th in total points scored and points per game. Its already been noted in offseason threads that the offense's 414 points would have ranked higher in the seasonal rankings in all but 1 season in the last 10 years. The 2018 year was an aberration of high scoring offenses. It matters because the perspective is skewed in 2018.

Football being a team sport, the defense which also was savaged by injury was 25th in points allowed. 24 teams gave up fewer points. Directly affecting W-L. Had the defense performed at the level the Sarkesian offense did, it would have been a much different season.

So an offense that had zero offensive line, yet still scored points and produced in the redzone while the defense laid down a goose egg and someone says its Sarks fault.

Hey some people don't like facts.

 

 

Exactly, which is why I've said from the beginning of the season. You can't put it all on Koetter. He's actually done okay, not great, but okay given the new revamped O-line, the mediocre depth at running back (with Free past his peak) and no longer having Sanu eventually. Not to mention how atrocious the Falcons D was the first half of the year. I can't even imagine how worse the Falcons offense would be right now if Sark was back with this current group. 

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7 hours ago, vel said:

I'm fine with Koetter/Mularkey/Knapp. No, it's not been flawless. But we've seen several times now the jump from year one to year two in an offense with this group. Canning them just to start over would be useless if they keep DQ. You've finally seen some creativity. You saw the run game come alive vs NO. They have to stop thinking they can recreate Kyle's offense and do their own thing. 

Not to mention, how attractive is an OC position going to be under a HC who may be on his last year knowing full well if the HC, that is on borrowed time and already rumored to be fired this year, is let go that the new HC would likely want to pick his entire staff.

I doubt we would draw any name worth a **** in that scenario.  

vel likes this

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If our offense can average around 30pts per game I’m okay with keep koetter around again.

Im sure Ryan wouldn’t want another new coordinator. Assuming in your scenario Quinn stays but Koetter doesn’t, the last thing we need is another new coordinator 2 coordinators removed from Shanny trying to replicate the magic of that historical season. Let’s see how we finish out this season. 
 

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If the Falcons average 28 points a game for the remaining 6 games, I am happy with keeping Koetter for another year. 

I saw a very dull and unimaginative offense to start this year, but with our useless preseason, he probably did not realize how much Freeman had declined or Ridley had grown.  However, in the last few games, I have seen Ridley make a giant leap while the offense has not stalled with Freeman being absent. 

We also got by without Hooper this past Sunday and the trade of Sanu has had no major unfavorable impact.  We also showed versatility with our offense as rushing dominated the Saints while passing dominated the Panthers (a reflection of the defenses presented to us).

2016-17 was a great offense that should be considered a high point not a minimum for any future Falcons team.

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8 hours ago, vel said:

I'm fine with Koetter/Mularkey/Knapp. No, it's not been flawless. But we've seen several times now the jump from year one to year two in an offense with this group. Canning them just to start over would be useless if they keep DQ. You've finally seen some creativity. You saw the run game come alive vs NO. They have to stop thinking they can recreate Kyle's offense and do their own thing. 

In previous years, the jump in year 2 was on Ryan.  This time the improvement would come from the coaches more  than Ryan and the offense.

They will get more comfortable calling the offense.  I just hate Koetter’s run game and leaving his OL out to dry

vel and Francis York Morgan like this

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