g-dawg

Tua Tagovailoa - Draft Stock - at what point?

126 posts in this topic

26 minutes ago, Geneaut said:

What did you expect? This topic has been driven into the ground. 

No it hasn’t.   Talking about other things surrounding Tua “Should Saban have sat him?” and “Isn’t it a shame about Tua?”, etc, etc have been talked to death.

This was a different topic altogether.

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If he makes it to the 2nd round with our pick. Take him in a heart beat. At that point his talent will outshine anyone left on the board by a huge margin. Let him sit behind Ryan for 2-3 years. This will allow him to heal, get physically fit, and learn the game from one of the best. This would be a godsend for our organization as it sets up life after the Ryan era. 

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13 minutes ago, g-dawg said:

No it hasn’t.   Talking about other things surrounding Tua “Should Saban have sat him?” and “Isn’t it a shame about Tua?”, etc, etc have been talked to death.

This was a different topic altogether.

No. The subject of should the Falcons draft Tua has been raised multiple times since the season went South. The only difference now is the injury.

If we draft any of the premiere college QBs in the next 2 years the resulting $h1t$h0w in the Falcon fanbase is going to be off the scale.

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10 hours ago, Vandy said:

I think he was agreeing with you without even realizing it....:)

If drafting a QB in Rd 3-4, I would prefer Fromm over injury-prone Tua. I liked Jake better even before Tua broke down this season. 

No please no. No no no. I NEED this to be the last year I ever watch him. Please no. 

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5 minutes ago, Geneaut said:

No. The subject of should the Falcons draft Tua has been raised multiple times since the season went South. The only difference now is the injury.

If we draft any of the premiere college QBs in the next 2 years the resulting $h1t$h0w in the Falcon fanbase is going to be off the scale.

I disagree with gdawg that the Tua conversation was primarily about his injury and the circumstances surrounding it. 
 

That being said the initial Tua talk was when we had the 5th/6th pick and the subject of BPA came up. Which Tua would definitely be in consideration for. This was also during our losing streak where everything that could go wrong, was going wrong. 
 

The subject of Tua dropping is a completely different conversation than the former. If we’re looking at him possibly being there in the 2nd round, you have to take him based on talent alone and the thinking of the future. 
 

As far as it being a “$hitshow” Well, it is Falcons fans on the Falcons boards. The off-season/season have had major stints where is was “$hitshow”. That’s the nature of this team, but that doesn’t mean you don’t get premium talent at a discounted rate. 

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Hes going to end up on the Pats, we all know its coming. Not that it will matter because I just dont see him being an NFL caliber QB. Trying to properly rank QBs on stacked teams is pretty tough (IMO).

It may just be that its early and I cant really think too well but who is the last QB that came from a stacked team (like Bama) that ended up being a Franchise QB? 2012 with Luck? 2010 with Scam? Im not at all saying that the past predicts the future but its something to think about.

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3 minutes ago, Sidecar Falcon said:

I disagree with gdawg that the Tua conversation was primarily about his injury and the circumstances surrounding it. 
 

That being said the initial Tua talk was when we had the 5th/6th pick and the subject of BPA came up. Which Tua would definitely be in consideration for. This was also during our losing streak where everything that could go wrong, was going wrong. 
 

The subject of Tua dropping is a completely different conversation than the former. If we’re looking at him possibly being there in the 2nd round, you have to take him based on talent alone and the thinking of the future. 
 

As far as it being a “$hitshow” Well, it is Falcons fans on the Falcons boards. The off-season/season have had major stints where is was “$hitshow”. That’s the nature of this team, but that doesn’t mean you don’t get premium talent at a discounted rate. 

It's still a 'draft a QB to replace Matt' thread. We've had a billion of them. Replace Tua's name with any of the other QBs and this subject has been HAMMERED. HAMMERED.

If this team takes any 'name' QB all we are going to see are people screaming to have that QB start the second Matt plays like even an average QB in a loss. Taking a name QB in the 2020 draft with Ryan under contract until 2023 is simply asking for conflict and strife.

1-2 more seasons is the time to start looking for Matt's replacement. There will be a 'Tua' available then.

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9 hours ago, g-dawg said:

Not every fanbase has all good fans.  Take you for instance.

So I have to like every player on a team I root for? How do you even read this board with that mindset lol

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You people are absolutely insane. Tua will be gone in the first 15 picks of the draft. His injury is the same one Alabama LB CJ Mosley had in the 2011 BCS title game against LSU. Last I checked, he's had quite the career.

Tua was projected as the #1 pick in the entire draft. If his left arm fell off, then I can see it being a problem. He had an injury to an extremity that may shave off a 10th of a second on his 40 yard dash. As a QB, who cares? 

If Tua isn't project to go in the first round (which again - will *clap* not *clap* happen *clap), he'd just go back to Alabama, which, would be a terrifying prospect for all the college football fans out there - an Alabama team getting back all of their defensive talent and a generational quarterback on a "prove it" year. 

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3 minutes ago, Geneaut said:

It's still a 'draft a QB to replace Matt' thread. We've had a billion of them. Replace Tua's name with any of the other QBs and this subject has been HAMMERED. HAMMERED.

If this team takes any 'name' QB all we are going to see are people screaming to have that QB start the second Matt plays like even an average QB in a loss. Taking a name QB in the 2020 draft with Ryan under contract until 2023 is simply asking for conflict and strife.

1-2 more seasons is the time to start looking for Matt's replacement. There will be a 'Tua' available then.

I disagree that the threads are intended to be “Replace Matt Ryan” threads. Most good posters see that preparing for the future is essential in having sustained success in the league. Using the minority of Ryan haters and their “replace Ryan” narrative as a platitude isn’t accurate to what the real reasoning for drafting a successor QB is. 
 

That’s how all organizations are. Aging veteran QB with a young, talented, highly drafted QB will ALWAYS have that narrative. They had that conversation in NE and Brady won several Superbowls at that point. This can be said for other positions, sports, etc. This isn’t a unique situation. Teams deal with this all the time. 
 

I disagree with that statement based on a few mitigating factors. Hypothetically we draft Tua in the 2nd round and let him sit for 2 years. He is going to have VASTLY more experience with NFL defenses, schemes, playbook, and knowledge than a rookie college QB coming into the league. Not to mention up until his injury he was projected to possibly being the first or second QB off the board. 

If NFL history has taught us anything is that you don’t wait for your team to have a severe need at any position, especially the QB position. 

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9 minutes ago, US-41 Falcon said:

You people are absolutely insane. Tua will be gone in the first 15 picks of the draft. His injury is the same one Alabama LB CJ Mosley had in the 2011 BCS title game against LSU. Last I checked, he's had quite the career.

Tua was projected as the #1 pick in the entire draft. If his left arm fell off, then I can see it being a problem. He had an injury to an extremity that may shave off a 10th of a second on his 40 yard dash. As a QB, who cares? 

If Tua isn't project to go in the first round (which again - will *clap* not *clap* happen *clap), he'd just go back to Alabama, which, would be a terrifying prospect for all the college football fans out there - an Alabama team getting back all of their defensive talent and a generational quarterback on a "prove it" year. 

Oh man, i didnt realize QBs dont need good hips to throw the ball...good thing they all stand statue still with no movement from their lower body...

 

"

Dislocated hip could have long-term implications for Alabama quarterback Tua Tagovailoa

By PROFOOTBALLDOC

NOV. 16, 2019

 

12:41 PM

Alabama quarterback Tua Tagovailoa suffered a significant hip injury Saturday that could affect his football career.

By limited video, he rolled out to his left and was tackled while being fallen upon by two Mississippi State defenders simultaneously. His hip was flexed and adducted with reports of him screaming in pain while being taken off the field. Trainers lifted him off the ground and onto a cart, as he was unable to move. The hip remained in a fixed position, and the right thigh had the appearance of being noticeably shorter than the left due to the hip being dislocated outward.

Tagovailoa underwent a recent a high ankle surgery and returned to play in three weeks at less than 100 percent. Last season, he suffered a left high ankle sprain that also required surgery. He was able to return to play in the national championship game five weeks later. Both ankle injuries shouldn’t affect Tua long-term and/or his potential status as potential a top five draft selection.

This injury has potentially more long-lasting consequences even if it doesn’t require surgery.

Even with limited video, this appears to be posterior hip dislocation, and there is no question that it is an extremely painful injury.

One can tell the amount of deformity as his right lead position in his entire right knee is in different position than the left side. I expect x-rays to show clear right hip dislocation, hopefully without fracture.

The hope is the team doctors could immediately reduce the hip in the locker room, as that would significantly reduce the pain and potentially decrease his recovery time. This is not always possible to do, and it was not surprising to hear a report of him going to the hospital. He may have had to have reduction done under anesthesia or even via surgery.

If he can avoid associated fracture, he might have better chance of return to play in the NFL. But his season is over.

Unfortunately, this injury can have long-term implications even without fracture, as the blood flow to the femoral head can be disrupted leading to avascular necrosis where the bone and then cartilage dies out becomes arthritic. Quick action with reduction will lessen this risk.

It is not exactly the same, but the comparison will inevitably be made to Bo Jackson. He suffered a hip subluxation with a fracture, which ultimately lead to a hip replacement which ended his football career. I am not saying that is the case here for Tagovailoa, but both injuries will undoubtedly be compared.

In my career as a head team physician, I treated an NFL player who dislocated his hip in similar fashion. We were able to successfully reduce the hip on the sidelines, and the player returned in eight weeks and even caught a touchdown pass in his second game back, but he did not play after that year.

We will have to see how this plays out, but this injury will almost certainly affect Tagovailoa’s draft postion and possibly his career.

Edited by DirtyBird2
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7 minutes ago, Sidecar Falcon said:

I disagree that the threads are intended to be “Replace Matt Ryan” threads. Most good posters see that preparing for the future is essential in having sustained success in the league. Using the minority of Ryan haters and their “replace Ryan” narrative as a platitude isn’t accurate to what the real reasoning for drafting a successor QB is. 
 

That’s how all organizations are. Aging veteran QB with a young, talented, highly drafted QB will ALWAYS have that narrative. They had that conversation in NE and Brady won several Superbowls at that point. This can be said for other positions, sports, etc. This isn’t a unique situation. Teams deal with this all the time. 
 

I disagree with that statement based on a few mitigating factors. Hypothetically we draft Tua in the 2nd round and let him sit for 2 years. He is going to have VASTLY more experience with NFL defenses, schemes, playbook, and knowledge than a rookie college QB coming into the league. Not to mention up until his injury he was projected to possibly being the first or second QB off the board. 

If NFL history has taught us anything is that you don’t wait for your team to have a severe need at any position, especially the QB position. 

If you draft Tua in the 2nd this year then his contract and Matt's expire in the same off-season. I think we need 1 more year before we seriously start looking for Matt's replacement. I'm not against looking for someone, but I really don't think it's Tua and you have to keep contract situations in your head while you are doing it.

If you don't there's a large number of fans drooling to get Matt out of here I'm not sure what to tell you.

Edited by Geneaut

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He will return to Alabama. He will miss Spring practice, or maybe he "red-shirts".

Too much money is lost for him to be drafted in the 2nd or 3rd round in this draft..

What NFL team can place him on "I.R." and hold a roster spot for him next season?

This draft will have 3-5 QBs drafted in the first 2 rounds.

Tua can rest and rehab. It hurts to reds-shirt but he could return in 2021-2022 as the consensus #1 QB in that draft 

Lawrence may be the #1 pick of the 2020 draft.

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12 minutes ago, Geneaut said:

If you draft Tua in the 2nd this year then his contract and Matt's expire in the same off-season. I think we need 1 more year before we seriously start looking for Matt's replacement. I'm not against looking for someone, but I really don't think it's Tua and you have to keep contract situations in your head while you are doing it.

If you don't there's a large number of fans drooling to get Matt out of here I'm not sure what to tell you.

I have no doubt we’ll be able to resign Tua if that time comes. More than likely he’ll have a few starts before Ryan is gone, so we’ll have some indicator of where his talent is. Regardless you don’t pass up on that kind of talent in the 2nd round. 
 

You’re also banking on us being in a position to get a QB with Tua’s ability and accolades at our draft position in the subsequent drafts. Most scouts had him rated as the #1 overall prospect coming into the draft. I highly doubt we’ll get this type of opportunity again unless Ryan goes down with a season ending injury and we get the 1st overall pick in the “Tank for Trev” bowl. Lol

 

I disagree that there’s a “large” group of posters here that want Ryan gone. Most are $hit posters, trolls, multi-account users, etc. You can tell by their post count, word usage, history, etc. There’s a huge number of indicators that point the arrow in that direction. Most real falcons fans appreciate Ryan and everything he has done for this organization. We also live a world where we know one day Ryan is going to retire or move on. That’s what happens with every sport.
 

Nostalgia is what keeps a lot of fans loyal to a particular player. Right up until the point where the athlete themselves walks away from the game, and only then will they let go. Unfortunately organizations have to think about the future, they can’t live in the past. 

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8 minutes ago, Sidecar Falcon said:

I have no doubt we’ll be able to resign Tua if that time comes. More than likely he’ll have a few starts before Ryan is gone, so we’ll have some indicator of where his talent is. Regardless you don’t pass up on that kind of talent in the 2nd round. 
 

You’re also banking on us being in a position to get a QB with Tua’s ability and accolades at our draft position in the subsequent drafts. Most scouts had him rated as the #1 overall prospect coming into the draft. I highly doubt we’ll get this type of opportunity again unless Ryan goes down with a season ending injury and we get the 1st overall pick in the “Tank for Trev” bowl. Lol

 

I disagree that there’s a “large” group of posters here that want Ryan gone. Most are $hit posters, trolls, multi-account users, etc. You can tell by their post count, word usage, history, etc. There’s a huge number of indicators that point the arrow in that direction. Most real falcons fans appreciate Ryan and everything he has done for this organization. We also live a world where we know one day Ryan is going to retire or move on. That’s what happens with every sport.
 

Nostalgia is what keeps a lot of fans loyal to a particular player. Right up until the point where the athlete themselves walks away from the game, and only then will they let go. Unfortunately organizations have to think about the future, they can’t live in the past. 

I didn't say posters ... I said fans. I don't care what people in here think, but seeing Tua posters in the stands is not going to help this team a bit.

I think we have 4 years of drafts to find a talent equal to Tua to replace Matt. There's no reason to put this team in that position this draft. Especially using a 2nd round pick that could be used on a more immediate return.

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Just now, Geneaut said:

I didn't say posters ... I said fans. I don't care what people in here think, but seeing Tua posters in the stands is not going to help this team a bit.

I think we have 4 years of drafts to find a talent equal to Tua to replace Matt. There's no reason to put this team in that position this draft. Especially using a 2nd round pick that could be used on a more immediate return.

You keep going back to this fallacy that drafting a QB will mess with the team via fans. That’s completely untrue.
 

Organizations want to win. Ryan knows it’s business decisions. He also knows he can’t play forever. Eventually time will catch up to him and his contract value versus performance will need to be evaluated.

I think Ryan has 2-3 years left with minimal drop off in ability before he completely falls off a cliff. Ryan has never been the most physically gifted QB. He has always relied on his football acumen heavily. Unfortunately that’s the first to go in all QBs and it’s usually the most noticeable.

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Just now, Sidecar Falcon said:

You keep going back to this fallacy that drafting a QB will mess with the team via fans. That’s completely untrue.
 

Organizations want to win. Ryan knows it’s business decisions. He also knows he can’t play forever. Eventually time will catch up to him and his contract value versus performance will need to be evaluated.

I think Ryan has 2-3 years left with minimal drop off in ability before he completely falls off a cliff. Ryan has never been the most physically gifted QB. He has always relied on his football acumen heavily. Unfortunately that’s the first to go in all QBs and it’s usually the most noticeable.

You think what you got to think. I'm not changing my mind or my stance that drafting Tua in an early round this year is a waste of a pick, and a distraction this team doesn't need.

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3 minutes ago, Geneaut said:

You think what you got to think. I'm not changing my mind or my stance that drafting Tua in an early round this year is a waste of a pick, and a distraction this team doesn't need.

Fair enough. However, Tua being a distraction to the team is a fallacy. 

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9 hours ago, tactician said:

That Tua will go top 10? I'll make that bet. 

No, that Tua WON’T go top 10.   The other guy said he would still go Top 10 - and there is less than 1% chance of that happening right now IMHO.

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3 minutes ago, g-dawg said:

No, that Tua WON’T go top 10.   The other guy said he would still go Top 10 - and there is less than 1% chance of that happening right now IMHO.

With our luck the Pats would draft him lol

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16 minutes ago, g-dawg said:

No, that Tua WON’T go top 10.   The other guy said he would still go Top 10 - and there is less than 1% chance of that happening right now IMHO.

Make it top 15 and ill take your bet. I'll wager Tua will still go in the top 15 picks.

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