Sun Tzu 7

Is TD still as horrible as you thought?

114 posts in this topic

7 minutes ago, Refried Beans said:

2016 was a solid draft. McKay must have been out sick or on vacation becasue he obviously wasnt in War Room when that draft took place, no reaches in that draft. 

I'm totally convinced you're Rich McKay trolling the message board.

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Just now, Sun Tzu 7 said:

That may be the most solid and reasonable argument I've heard for replacing him.

Hard to argue with your logic on that.

You just gotta love sarcasm. Well done!

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OL and DL will never be a strength of this team with TD as our GM.  If you look at his best draft picks they were as close to sure things as you can get in the NFL.  He got lucky his first year by winning a coin flip and getting Matt Ryan.  If we would have lost that coin flip he surely would have used that 1st round pick on a bust.  The Julio trade was a bold move, but again Julio was about as sure a draft prospect as you will ever find.  And same story with Ridley in my opinion.  Now if you consider all of the 1st round busts and reaches he has made in the draft as well as his free agent signing track record, which is more good than bad.

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That the Falcons have always had a bad offensive line is repeated as if it's fact, but they've actually had a good offensive line for roughly 50% of Dimitroff's tenure. 

Edited by Summerhill

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33 minutes ago, Refried Beans said:

athell name me a TD draft hit that a 16 year old couldnt have drafted.  Calvin Ridley was good pick but we could have gotten Lamar Jackon. Keanu Neal was a good pick. I mean I could probably draw names out of a hat and do a better job drafting than the Falcons do on draft day. I really believe I could sit in the War Room with a CBS Draft Ranking List and do a better job. Some of the people we draft really make me believe some of our scouts and front office people are literally stupid. Look at TD draft breakdown: 

 2009 draft, Peria Jerry #1, William Moore #2, Chris Owens #3, Lawrence Sidberry #4. (That whole draft was a bust.)

2010- Sean Weatherspoon, Corey Peters, Mike Johnson, Joe Hawley, Dominique Franks. (1 of 5)

2011- Julio Jones, Akeen Dent, Jaquizz Rodgers, Matt Bosher, Andrew Jackson,  (2 of 5)

2012- Peter Konz, Lamar Holmes, Bradie Ewing, Charles Mitchell. (That whole draft was a bust)

2013- Desmond Trufant, Robert Alford, Mallciah Goodman, Stansly Maponga (1 player, rest scrubs)

2014- Jake Matthews, Rashede Hageman, Dezmen Southward, Devonte Freeman, Prince Shembo (2 of 5)

2015- Vic Beasley, Jalen Collins, Tevin Coleman, Justin Hardy, Grady Jarrett, Jake Rodgers, Akeem King (2 o7 maybe 3 of 7 if you count a 3 WR in Hardy)

2016-  Keanu Neal, Deion Jones, Austin Hooper, Devondre Campbell, Wes Schweitzer, Devin Fuller (4 of 6)

2017- Takk McKinley, Duke Riley, Sean Harlow, Damontee Kazee, Brian Hill, Eric Saubert  (2 of 6)

2018- Calvin Ridley, Isiah Oliver, Deadrin Senat, Ito Smith, Russell Gage, Foyesade Olukun (3 of 6)

2019- Chris Lindstrom ?, Kaleb McGary ?, Kendall Sheffield, John Cominsky, Qadree Ollison, Jordan Miller, Marcus Green. (?) 

So TD has had 10 years of drafting and 20 decent players out of 56. So he is hitting 35%.  And 7 of his hits are WR and RBs which are the easiest spots on the field to fill. TD has only hit on 1 CB and he freaking played CB. Not to mention front office inability to work the waiver wire during the season.  Whole front office and couts gotta go. Better front office= better players and coaches= better teams= Lombardi Trophies. 

So....18 starters out of 22 have been drafted by the Falcons in the last 11 years?

Well, I'd say you just sold us all on why we should keep TD.

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15 minutes ago, Refried Beans said:

House- Just becasue they are starters dont mean theu are good. 

Looked pretty good to me kicking dat Saintz a$$ this sunday?

And McGary is quickly turning into a great RT.

 

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House- we shall see, I hope you are right. I would rather have 9-7 than a high first round pick. And l still would like to see TD stay in Team President role, I just dont think he has ever been able to fully run the show with McKay and his old goofballs looking over his shoulder. I'd like to have Ed Dodds run scouting and Dodds make the decision on the coach. 

Edited by Refried Beans
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Yes. His multiple draft busts at DE and the OL cannot be ignored. Look at his 09,10,12,and 17 draft classes. Yet he let gems like Peters and Vance Walker leave???

Edited by lju713

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17 minutes ago, Refried Beans said:

House- Just becasue they are starters dont mean theu are good. 

You build from within. Smart drafts and hitting lucky in FA lead to success. We've had alot of success since 2008.

Our roster is TD's.

18 out of 22. That's impressive. And there's another dozen or so 2nd stringers we've drafted who are filling roles and ST/good depth. 

 

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2 hours ago, Sun Tzu 7 said:

So I made a thread after the game asking if it was coaching or the players.  It appears that most agree coaching was the issue.

During the slide there was a debate that TD was horrible and most of the players he acquired were garbage and he is the sole reason the Falcons ever lose a game.  

I will mention I was in favor of him moving on due to the lack of attention paid to the defensive line and am still on the fence about it.

Years 2016-2017 and the game against the Saints showed these guys can play.  This team is not as completely devoid of talent as it appeared.

So is TD as horrible as we thought or is the talent there and coaching has more to do with the on-field performance than some care to admit?

As I said if TD moves on I am not going to be 100% against it because I think there should have been more of a focus on the d-line but I'll admit TD has found guys that could play through the draft AND FA. No one bats 1000 when it comes to the draft.

:munch:

Guess you should say is Pioli "as bad as you thought", since he brought-in most of our talent through the draft, since 2014?

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House- Just think if you could get  Dodds in here, a true scout that knows how to evaluate linemen and DBs. We would be lights out. McKay, Emry, Webster, Sabo, they are has beens. Time for a younger front office. 

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1 hour ago, UnrealfalcoN said:

Been backing TD up since 09. Don't cut him unless you have a potential top 5 GM replacing him.

People make fun of his 2and round misses. Please google who the Patriots have been drafting in the 2nd

Jordan Richards!

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House- no one has ever questioned TDs ability to draft position players. WRs, RBs, even LBs he hits well on, its the inability to build inside out that is going to be his downfall. Grady Jarrett is solid and he did a good job with Mack in FA but Matthews to me is just OK, hoping these two linemen in this years draft work out. 

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2 minutes ago, Refried Beans said:

House- Just think if you could get  Dodds in here, a true scout that knows how to evaluate linemen and DBs. We would be lights out. McKay, Emry, Webster, Sabo, they are has beens. Time for a younger front office. 

I'm open for anything that improves the team.

I just think TD gets alot of unwarranted hate. Under his watch has been the most successful era of Falcons football.

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5 minutes ago, Refried Beans said:

House- Just think if you could get  Dodds in here, a true scout that knows how to evaluate linemen and DBs. We would be lights out. McKay, Emry, Webster, Sabo, they are has beens. Time for a younger front office. 

Tell Dodds we want the next Primetime at DB. Scout the world. Bring us back a phenom.

We will welcome him like Ceaser coming back to Rome. 

The NFL needs another Prime type player, and no better place than the ATL. 

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2 hours ago, MAD597 said:

Yes he is, one win does not negate 11 years of bad OL's and DL's. How many edge rushers have we drafted and signed as FA's here that failed here? How many picks have we wasted on the OL that never panned out? We've had multiple Head coaches and DC's and it is a consistent problem where the tenches have had issues.

He also had a hand in hiring these coaches so it is two fold with him, and you cant get out of blaming him for it. Either the coaches that he helped bring in can`t develop talent along the trenches or the players he has a hand in picking aren't good along the trenches or the most likely scenario is a combination of both.

 

How bout the coaching of what’s put in front of them does that count or is that on the GM to lol

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TD is past his expiration date.  Like sour milk in the fridge... you know its bad.   So why you got to open it and smell it?

We need new talent at the top.

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TD is absolutely still an issue. We have several players that only play hard when they want to. We have serious issues in the secondary and DE and we never invest serious resources in FA into problem defensive areas.

We're 2-7. The Saints debacle was one game. Sure, it was a blast, but the team ultimately still has issues. That's on Quinn, but it's also on TD.

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5 minutes ago, Francis York Morgan said:

TD is absolutely still an issue. We have several players that only play hard when they want to. We have serious issues in the secondary and LB and we never invest serious resources in FA into problem defensive areas.

We're 2-7. The Saints debacle was one game. Sure, it was a blast, but the team ultimately still has issues. That's on Quinn, but it's also on TD.

FA was never this teams go.After Ryan signed his first 100 mill plus deal the draft is where this team will do the heavy lifting.FA is a filler.

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3 hours ago, MSalmon said:

I’ll bite. I don’t think firing TD makes sense unless there is a clear upgrade or innovative thinking replacement in mind. I could even see a director of player personnel, kind of like Pioli, hired to help adjust a few flaws. That said, minus FS the roster looks like it was drafted for DQ and with his approval. There hasn’t been a ton of head scratchers lately except maybe signing the two FA OL (Carpenter and Brown) and then drafting 2 OL. But that said, it’s abundantly clear our depth on OL wasn’t great. 

I think most of this year’s warts fall clearly on the shoulders of DQ. The players for the most part looked pretty confused, out of position and undisciplined. Throw in the weird odd front stuff and it was a recipe for disaster. I read somewhere that DQ hasn’t been the same since the SB and I agree, it’s like his confidence was shattered. 

He needs a new start IMO. I’m more than comfortable retaining TD

I would exile TD for Dobbs in a nano-second.  That said, except for our current CAP dilemma, he has been a great hire for the Falcons

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20 minutes ago, Francis York Morgan said:

TD is absolutely still an issue. We have several players that only play hard when they want to. We have serious issues in the secondary and DE and we never invest serious resources in FA into problem defensive areas.

We're 2-7. The Saints debacle was one game. Sure, it was a blast, but the team ultimately still has issues. That's on Quinn, but it's also on TD.

Keanu Neal, J.J. Wilcox, Steven Means, Trufant. We've invested the resources, sometimes injuries happen.

Signed alot of DL in the offeseason, including resigning Clayborne, whom everybody wanted.

As far as "several" players who "only play hard when they want to", well, that would be on coaching.

 

 

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34 minutes ago, Atl Falcon said:

Was that the time Pioli came aboard?

TD s grade should definitely include the seven yrs before ‘15

My main problem with TD is he’s never been able to produce a consistent pass rush.

I agree...would have agreed...did you see our pass rush Sunday against one of the leagues better offenses and oline?

I mentioned before, I'm not going to put too much stock into 1 game but wow...night and day.  What if the issue isn't TD, what if the issue all along was the coach and scheme?

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40 minutes ago, kiwifalcon said:

How bout the coaching of what’s put in front of them does that count or is that on the GM to lol

TD hires the coaches, also his fault 

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