Is TD still as horrible as you thought?

[Sun Tzu 7 13,834]

So I made a thread after the game asking if it was coaching or the players.  It appears that most agree coaching was the issue.

During the slide there was a debate that TD was horrible and most of the players he acquired were garbage and he is the sole reason the Falcons ever lose a game.  

I will mention I was in favor of him moving on due to the lack of attention paid to the defensive line and am still on the fence about it.

Years 2016-2017 and the game against the Saints showed these guys can play.  This team is not as completely devoid of talent as it appeared.

So is TD as horrible as we thought or is the talent there and coaching has more to do with the on-field performance than some care to admit?

As I said if TD moves on I am not going to be 100% against it because I think there should have been more of a focus on the d-line but I'll admit TD has found guys that could play through the draft AND FA. No one bats 1000 when it comes to the draft.

[Sun Tzu 7 13,834]

Interesting.

I thought people would be coming out of the woodwork to bash TD.

It's truly amazing what a win against the Saints will do.

[MSalmon 10,890]

41 minutes ago, Sun Tzu 7 said:

So I made a thread after the game asking if it was coaching or the players.  It appears that most agree coaching was the issue.

During the slide there was a debate that TD was horrible and most of the players he acquired were garbage and he is the sole reason the Falcons ever lose a game.  

I will mention I was in favor of him moving on due to the lack of attention paid to the defensive line and am still on the fence about it.

Years 2016-2017 and the game against the Saints showed these guys can play.  This team is not as completely devoid of talent as it appeared.

So is TD as horrible as we thought or is the talent there and coaching has more to do with the on-field performance than some care to admit?

As I said if TD moves on I am not going to be 100% against it because I think there should have been more of a focus on the d-line but I'll admit TD has found guys that could play through the draft AND FA. No one bats 1000 when it comes to the draft.

I’ll bite. I don’t think firing TD makes sense unless there is a clear upgrade or innovative thinking replacement in mind. I could even see a director of player personnel, kind of like Pioli, hired to help adjust a few flaws. That said, minus FS the roster looks like it was drafted for DQ and with his approval. There hasn’t been a ton of head scratchers lately except maybe signing the two FA OL (Carpenter and Brown) and then drafting 2 OL. But that said, it’s abundantly clear our depth on OL wasn’t great. 

I think most of this year’s warts fall clearly on the shoulders of DQ. The players for the most part looked pretty confused, out of position and undisciplined. Throw in the weird odd front stuff and it was a recipe for disaster. I read somewhere that DQ hasn’t been the same since the SB and I agree, it’s like his confidence was shattered. 

He needs a new start IMO. I’m more than comfortable retaining TD

[MAD597 7,497]

Yes he is, one win does not negate 11 years of bad OL's and DL's. How many edge rushers have we drafted and signed as FA's here that failed here? How many picks have we wasted on the OL that never panned out? We've had multiple Head coaches and DC's and it is a consistent problem where the tenches have had issues.

He also had a hand in hiring these coaches so it is two fold with him, and you cant get out of blaming him for it. Either the coaches that he helped bring in can`t develop talent along the trenches or the players he has a hand in picking aren't good along the trenches or the most likely scenario is a combination of both.

 

[Refried Beans 1,363]

Sam Baker, Peria Jerry, Desmond Trufant, Vic Beasley, Takk McKinley- all #1 picks, yeah TD gotta go and take McKay and the clowns with you. Ed Dodds will run circles around McKay, TD, and our entire scouting department. 

 

Edited November 12, 2019 by Refried Beans

[athell 30,535]

Just now, Refried Beans said:

Sam Baker, Peria Jerry, Desmond Trufant, Vic Beasley, Takk McKinley- all #1 picks, yeah TD gotta go and take McKay and the clowns with you. 

 

If you are going to play this game, you also have to include the 1st round busts from other potential GMs as well...and also give credit to his (TD's) hits.

[Charles Wright 816]

1 hour ago, Sun Tzu 7 said:

So I made a thread after the game asking if it was coaching or the players.  It appears that most agree coaching was the issue.

During the slide there was a debate that TD was horrible and most of the players he acquired were garbage and he is the sole reason the Falcons ever lose a game.  

I will mention I was in favor of him moving on due to the lack of attention paid to the defensive line and am still on the fence about it.

Years 2016-2017 and the game against the Saints showed these guys can play.  This team is not as completely devoid of talent as it appeared.

So is TD as horrible as we thought or is the talent there and coaching has more to do with the on-field performance than some care to admit?

As I said if TD moves on I am not going to be 100% against it because I think there should have been more of a focus on the d-line but I'll admit TD has found guys that could play through the draft AND FA. No one bats 1000 when it comes to the draft.

 No offense but two bust 1st rd DE's, well nuff said!

[ZoneOne01 1,871]

One game isn’t changing the opinion I’ve had of him for years.  

[Sun Tzu 7 13,834]

8 minutes ago, Chaz said:

 No offense but two bust 1st rd DE's, well nuff said!

So Takk is a bust?

I'm not ready to write him off just yet.  I know the sack numbers aren't there but I'm seeing the effort.  I'm seeing the desire.

But yeah overall the lack of attention to the DL has been one of my sore spots with TD.

[MAD597 7,497]

5 minutes ago, Sun Tzu 7 said:

So Takk is a bust?

I'm not ready to write him off just yet.  I know the sack numbers aren't there but I'm seeing the effort.  I'm seeing the desire.

But yeah overall the lack of attention to the DL has been one of my sore spots with TD.

It's not lack of attention it's just a complete failure to get good players and good coaches for the DL and OL.

And yes Takk is a bust.

[UnrealfalcoN 3,956]

Been backing TD up since 09. Dude is faar from perfect but don't cut him unless you have a potential top 5 GM replacing him.

People make fun of his 2and round misses. Please google who the Patriots have been drafting in the 2nd

[The Smart One 310]

We should also remember TD got us our QB. Imagine if we drafted Dorsey instead of Ryan like so many people fans wanted. 

[Refried Beans 1,363]

athell name me a TD draft hit that a 16 year old couldnt have drafted.  Calvin Ridley was good pick but we could have gotten Lamar Jackon. Keanu Neal was a good pick. I mean I could probably draw names out of a hat and do a better job drafting than the Falcons do on draft day. I really believe I could sit in the War Room with a CBS Draft Ranking List and do a better job. Some of the people we draft really make me believe some of our scouts and front office people are literally stupid. Look at TD draft breakdown: 

 2009 draft, Peria Jerry #1, William Moore #2, Chris Owens #3, Lawrence Sidberry #4. (That whole draft was a bust.)

2010- Sean Weatherspoon, Corey Peters, Mike Johnson, Joe Hawley, Dominique Franks. (1 of 5)

2011- Julio Jones, Akeen Dent, Jaquizz Rodgers, Matt Bosher, Andrew Jackson,  (2 of 5)

2012- Peter Konz, Lamar Holmes, Bradie Ewing, Charles Mitchell. (That whole draft was a bust)

2013- Desmond Trufant, Robert Alford, Mallciah Goodman, Stansly Maponga (1 player, rest scrubs)

2014- Jake Matthews, Rashede Hageman, Dezmen Southward, Devonte Freeman, Prince Shembo (2 of 5)

2015- Vic Beasley, Jalen Collins, Tevin Coleman, Justin Hardy, Grady Jarrett, Jake Rodgers, Akeem King (2 o7 maybe 3 of 7 if you count a 3 WR in Hardy)

2016-  Keanu Neal, Deion Jones, Austin Hooper, Devondre Campbell, Wes Schweitzer, Devin Fuller (4 of 6)

2017- Takk McKinley, Duke Riley, Sean Harlow, Damontee Kazee, Brian Hill, Eric Saubert  (2 of 6)

2018- Calvin Ridley, Isiah Oliver, Deadrin Senat, Ito Smith, Russell Gage, Foyesade Olukun (3 of 6)

2019- Chris Lindstrom ?, Kaleb McGary ?, Kendall Sheffield, John Cominsky, Qadree Ollison, Jordan Miller, Marcus Green. (?) 

So TD has had 10 years of drafting and 20 decent players out of 56. So he is hitting 35%.  And 7 of his hits are WR and RBs which are the easiest spots on the field to fill. TD has only hit on 1 CB and he freaking played CB. Not to mention front office inability to work the waiver wire during the season.  Whole front office and couts gotta go. Better front office= better players and coaches= better teams= Lombardi Trophies. 

Edited November 12, 2019 by Refried Beans

[Osiruz 10,079]

I'll be honest, I wanted Greedy Williams this year if Chris Lindstrom wasn't available. Thank God we dodged that bullet. I also wanted Hageman when he came out but that fat rascal ended up disappointing. TD is a decent GM but not great. His weaknesses have always been he can't draft OL/DL or sign any good ones to save his life. Bailey, Ghey Ray, Kroy Boringman, OSI Umenyiora, Vic, Takk, Maponga, Tyler Starr, Malliciah Goodman. Its just been one bust after another. 

[MoFalconsFan56 4,166]

I’ve been a TD supporter for years but even I’m ready for a change. Just time for a new eye. I’m tired of the types of teams he builds but I’m still appreciative of some of the teams we’ve had

[Sun Tzu 7 13,834]

Just for fun here are the Raven's 1st and 2nd round picks for the last 10 years

2019 - Marquise Brown, Jaylon Ferguson

2018 - Hayden Hurst, Lamar Jackson

2017 - Marlon Humphrey, Tyus Bowser

2016 - Ronnie Stanley, Kamalei Correa

2015 - Breshad Perriman, Maxx Williams

2014 - C. J. Mosley, Timmy Jernigan

2013 - Matt Elam, Arthur Brown

2012 - Courtney Upshaw, Kelechi Osemele

2011 - Torrey Smith, Jimmy Smith

2010 - Sergio Kindle, Terrence Cody

[athell 30,535]

16 minutes ago, Refried Beans said:

athell name me a TD draft hit that a 16 year old couldnt have drafted.  Calvin Ridley was good pick but we could have gotten Lamar Jackon. Keanu Neal was a good pick. I mean I could probably draw names out of a hat and do a better job drafting than the Falcons do on draft day. I really believe I could sit in the War Room with a CBS Draft Ranking List and do a better job. Some of the people we draft really make me believe some of our scouts and front office people are literally stupid. Look at TD draft breakdown: 

 2009 draft, Peria Jerry #1, William Moore #2, Chris Owens #3, Lawrence Sidberry #4. (That whole draft was a bust.)

2010- Sean Weatherspoon, Corey Peters, Mike Johnson, Joe Hawley, Dominique Franks. (1 of 5)

2011- Julio Jones, Akeen Dent, Jaquizz Rodgers, Matt Bosher, Andrew Jackson,  (2 of 5)

2012- Peter Konz, Lamar Holmes, Bradie Ewing, Charles Mitchell. (That whole draft was a bust)

2013- Desmond Trufant, Robert Alford, Mallciah Goodman, Stansly Maponga (1 player, rest scrubs)

2014- Jake Matthews, Rashede Hageman, Dezmen Southward, Devonte Freeman, Prince Shembo (2 of 5)

2015- Vic Beasley, Jalen Collins, Tevin Coleman, Justin Hardy, Grady Jarrett, Jake Rodgers, Akeem King (2 o7 maybe 3 of 7 if you count a 3 WR in Hardy)

2016-  Keanu Neal, Deion Jones, Austin Hooper, Devondre Campbell, Wes Schweitzer, Devin Fuller (4 of 6)

2017- Takk McKinley, Duke Riley, Sean Harlow, Damontee Kazee, Brian Hill, Eric Saubert  (2 of 6)

2018- Calvin Ridley, Isiah Oliver, Deadrin Senat, Ito Smith, Russell Gage, Foyesade Olukun (3 of 6)

2019- Chris Lindstrom ?, Kaleb McGary ?, Kendall Sheffield, John Cominsky, Qadree Ollison, Jordan Miller, Marcus Green. (?) 

So TD has had 10 years of drafting and 20 decent players out of 56. So he is hitting 35%.  And 7 of his hits are WR and RBs which are the easiest spots on the field to fill. TD has only hit on 1 CB and he freaking played CB. Not to mention front office inability to work the waiver wire during the season.  Whole front office and couts gotta go. Better front office= better players and coaches= better teams= Lombardi Trophies. 

Now do it for all other 31 GM's.

[Jesus 24,786]

47 minutes ago, Chaz said:

 No offense but two bust 1st rd DE's, well nuff said!

How is it the GMs fault that two guys with first round grades are not working out? Does he have to coach then as well?

[Refried Beans 1,363]

The old Coach em up routine. If they have to be coached up in the NFL they dont need to be in the NFL. Oldest front office job save line in the book. Coach blames the front office and front office says the coach gotta coach em up. In the NFL HAHAHAHA. 

[Charles Wright 816]

 Like noses sir we all have one. TD hasn't been actually horrible. I just think we need new blood in the FO.

[athell 30,535]

https://overthecap.com/looking-at-nfl-draft-success-since-2015/

(Falcons 5th best in this article)

[Norwood all the way! 732]

I never thought he was THAT bad....yeah he has his flaws (mainly OLine and DLine) but I tend to think if we went with another GM, he would have his flaws as well, maybe even worse. I think we can win still with TD. Just my 2 cents

[Refried Beans 1,363]

2016 was a solid draft. McKay must have been out sick or on vacation becasue he obviously wasnt in War Room when that draft took place, no reaches in that draft. 

[Refried Beans 1,363]

I would like to see what TD could do without McKay, Emry, Webster, and Sabo around muddying the water. I want to see what TD can do as Team President AND GM with open reigns. I feel we have too many cooks in the kitchen, so before we bounce TD I want to see him stand alone for year without the dinosaur Team President and his dinosaur scouts giving their two cents on everything. 

[Sun Tzu 7 13,834]

11 minutes ago, Chaz said:

 Like noses sir we all have one. TD hasn't been actually horrible. I just think we need new blood in the FO.

That may be the most solid and reasonable argument I've heard for replacing him.

Hard to argue with your logic on that.