Was it talent or coaching?

[vel]

23 minutes ago, Ergo Proxy said:

I’m exactly right there.

I’m still overall disappointed in the Koetter hire on results so far, but we started taking some shots in the 2nd half. Missed Ridley deep on our opening possession but later burned Apple with Julio when Lattimore went out.

Target their weakness!

That said, great run/pass ratio today. Of course, one always wonders if we get to 20+ carries if the D was it’s usual self...

Gonna find out real quick what Hill and even Ollison might be made of if Free is down for the count.

I just really miss a Playcaller of Kyle’s caliber coupled with a consistently B+ or better ground game. You give Matt Ryan that in a WC system and a competent defense, we got a window open again.

Can Dirk, Mularkey, and Knapp bring it all together between gameplanning, playcalling and adjustments?

Ulbrich as DC and Morris with those DBs...brilliant start against what was previously a juggernaut team in their stadium where we usually struggle!

They showed a lot more creativity on offense today. The run game was more aggressive as well. Jamon Brown and Kaleb McGary make a physical right side, but it doesn't matter if they aren't playing forward. Toned down the pass heavy approach, controlled the clock and let the OL have some fun. It transitions into the pass blocking and their confidence. 

Free going down will finally force them to play Ollison. It's a shame it's taken this long to get Hill involved. My biggest issue has been the complete mismanagement of the roster to date. You carry five RBs but only play two until you hand is forced? Lol

We'll see where this goes. 

[vel]

17 minutes ago, PeytonMannings Forehead said:

Just as an aside, and this ain't really got nothing to do with the thread, but I love cats with backgrounds as linebackers and defensive backs as play callers... no shade to my defensive linemen out there.

#RandomThoughtoftheDay

The LBs/Safeties are usually the brains of the operation. You never see a good defense without good LBs and Safeties. 

15 minutes ago, Ergo Proxy said:

https://www.thefalcoholic.com/2019/11/10/20958563/falcons-credit-raheem-morris-for-crisper-more-effective-secondary-play-against-saints-ricardo-allen

“The different perspective, the different knowledge he has for the game — I feel like it helped the DBs out a lot more,” Oliver said. “It wasn’t anything the coaches previously weren’t doing, it’s just something different. That’s the biggest thing. All of them working together now, I feel like it helps us a lot more.”

He probably is going to benefit the most. He had some tough reps versus Thomas early on, but he settled in and had a solid game from there. Morris is a good coach and isn't going to sugar coat it. Henderson clearly had no clue what he was doing and was coaching scared. 

[Precyse]

4 hours ago, falconsd56 said:

Same coaching that got to the Super bowl and division round of playoffs too.

 

I think Manquel had a big hand in that 

[Ergo Proxy]

 

[quotemokc]

I think you need to factor in that the Saints would have had no gameplan or tape for Ulbrichs defense

[PokerSteve]

5 hours ago, GrimeyKidd said:

Quinn deserves credit for making these coaching decisions 

Yes and he also deserves disdain for screwing around half a season before pulling the trigger.

[cyofish]

I blamed the coaching all season. Quinn ran a vanilla defense.  Falcons defense under Ulbrach ran a more exotic scheme with stunts and pressure packages. 

 

[KRUNKuno]

It’s ALWAYS coaching.  Great coaching trumps talent always and forever.  The coach makes the team, not the players.  The decisions coaches make to put their team in position to win is what brings about winning.

Kazee playing safety instead of corner yielded INSTANT results...and everybody was ready to write him off.

Oliver playing press coverage yielded instant results...and everybody was ready to write him off.

Actually using Brian Hill or another back besides Freeman...

Actually sticking to a running game...

 

I got sick of people saying it’s the players, especially when at the beginning of the year everybody was saying our roster was deep.  Your roster is only as talented and deep as your coaching allows it to be.  Put your players in position to win, and their talents will shine.  

[SPITFIRE]

1 hour ago, cyofish said:

I blamed the coaching all season. Quinn ran a vanilla defense.  Falcons defense under Ulbrach ran a more exotic scheme with stunts and pressure packages. 

 

... its exactly the opposite. 

[81KJW]

8 hours ago, Sun Tzu 7 said:

So as of last week the Falcons talent level was terrible and the usual it was all TDs fault and blah blah.

Unless I was mistaken, other than the punter and kicker, this was mainly the same team and same players that came out today.

Has it been talent or coaching?

I've thought coaching but I'm curious to what everyone says now after a good performance.

And yes, it was one game, tons of things can still happen.

But let's all take a moment to stop and think about all the pain the Saints fans are in and be sure to soak it up.

the problem with TD he has a tendency to  panic in the draft and always draft injury prone players.
 dan quinn problems is he doesn't understand proper size players at key positions
CB show only be 5'11
DE l should be 6'3 or 6'5
OG should be 6'3 or 6'2

[Mid-Nite-Toker]

I think our self evaluation was poor...don't know who to play and where.

Waited to long to make adjustments...personnel and staff.

At least this realization came at the expense of the Saints in the swamp.

[Fleurieu falcon]

Definitely the coaches placing the players in positions that were not there strengths.  

 

[RunningThePiszOuttaTheBall]

It was coaching.

I'm happy we got the win, but even the win highlights the fact that DQ has got to go. This is what we've been capable of all along, so WTH has been the problem?

[FalconsIn2012]

9 hours ago, PeytonMannings Forehead said:

We weren’t running that Seattle scheme to start the season. Quinn was rolling out some 3-4 hybrid — old fashioned 5-2 with the wrong pieces for it.

We were running something closer to that Seahawk scheme today.

The move to more even man fronts and moving Morris to DB Coach required the bye week.  I guess Ulbricht has been calling the defense since Arizona.  Liked it better when I thought this was his first game...lol

[mtldirtybird]

10 hours ago, GrimeyKidd said:

Quinn deserves credit for making these coaching decisions 

pretty sure Blank made him do this. Nobody demotes themselves for fun

[mtldirtybird]

1 hour ago, Fleurieu falcon said:

Definitely the coaches placing the players in positions that were not there strengths.  

 

this has been the hardest part to watch. That's why DQ can't be calling shots anymore. He just kept pounding his head into the same board over and over. It's clear we should be running a normal C1, C2 and man defense with some blitzes like we did today. How nice was it to see a safety AND cb making a play on a receiver for a contested ball?? That should've been the norm every play all season

[mtldirtybird]

4 hours ago, PokerSteve said:

Yes and he also deserves disdain for screwing around half a season before pulling the trigger.

He needs to become DL coach or gone. He cost the season for everyone.

[uk falcs fan]

Rewatching the game now (because it’s one of the only games of football I’ve been able to enjoy this season)

We definitely played a lot smarter.

Offense benefitted in being able to stick with the run because we actually had a lead. Oline did a good job, liked seeing hill fighting for yards, gage saw plenty of time, also looks like Blake and zaccheaus are gonna see time over hardy now, plus they were both playing gunner.
 

The turn around on defense was unbelievable. Looked as though Kazee took a lot of safety reps off of Ishmael after first quarter, Kazee has to be playing safety, the guy is always around the ball when at safety and can easily play next to Rico. Foye had a very good game. Grady was a beast, plus coverage gave our rush that extra half a second to get to Brees. Think Sheffield looked rock solid

Barner was good in the return game and Koo

Think the saints didn’t help themselves but they were just genuinely outplayed.

 

[quotemokc]

All I know is that we kept hearing how the D has to have time to learn Quinn's defense.

They seemed to learn Ulbrich's D pretty quick.

[Vandy]

7 hours ago, KRUNKuno said:

It’s ALWAYS coaching.  Great coaching trumps talent always and forever.  The coach makes the team, not the players.  The decisions coaches make to put their team in position to win is what brings about winning.

Kazee playing safety instead of corner yielded INSTANT results...and everybody was ready to write him off.

Oliver playing press coverage yielded instant results...and everybody was ready to write him off.

Actually using Brian Hill or another back besides Freeman...

Actually sticking to a running game...

 

I got sick of people saying it’s the players, especially when at the beginning of the year everybody was saying our roster was deep.  Your roster is only as talented and deep as your coaching allows it to be.  Put your players in position to win, and their talents will shine.  

It’s mostly just excuses by peeps who went all in last offseason claiming what a great defensive mind Quinn was...

[GrimeyKidd]

8 hours ago, mtldirtybird said:

pretty sure Blank made him do this. Nobody demotes themselves for fun

Quinn has been slowly doing this these past weeks. This time he chose someone specifically. Has nothing to do with Blank 

[Optimus_Cr1m35]

First 8 games with Quinn as DC = Worst Defense in the league

1 Game with Ulbrich as DC = Defense looks like world beaters, 6 sacks, held one of the better offenses in the league to 3 field goals, 0 TDs.

 

 

Hmm....

[Dr Long Shot]

13 hours ago, Ergo Proxy said:

 

I don't understand how people can view the last game as a positive for Quinn. So you are telling me that all it took to fix our defense was putting Morris in charge of the DB's and we waited until week 9 after shipping Sanu for a pick and falling off of playoff contention completely to do it? This is insane to me. 

Edited November 11, 2019 by Dr Long Shot

[Dr Long Shot]

7 hours ago, uk falcs fan said:

Rewatching the game now (because it’s one of the only games of football I’ve been able to enjoy this season)

We definitely played a lot smarter.

Offense benefitted in being able to stick with the run because we actually had a lead. Oline did a good job, liked seeing hill fighting for yards, gage saw plenty of time, also looks like Blake and zaccheaus are gonna see time over hardy now, plus they were both playing gunner.
 

The turn around on defense was unbelievable. Looked as though Kazee took a lot of safety reps off of Ishmael after first quarter, Kazee has to be playing safety, the guy is always around the ball when at safety and can easily play next to Rico. Foye had a very good game. Grady was a beast, plus coverage gave our rush that extra half a second to get to Brees. Think Sheffield looked rock solid

Barner was good in the return game and Koo

Think the saints didn’t help themselves but they were just genuinely outplayed.

 

Yup, I get a little sick of people touting Shanny in San Fran and how he is such a genius for sticking with the run. Very, very easy to stick with the run when you are trotting out the #1 defense in the NFL. Not so much when you are behind by 17 by midway through the second quarter. 

[Ergo Proxy]

4 hours ago, Vandy said:

It’s mostly just excuses by peeps who went all in last offseason claiming what a great defensive mind Quinn was...

I think to answer the OP it's been both, but mostly coaching.

And, most people did buy in to Quinn becoming DC. It's a shame it took 8 games to figure out we needed a shakeup. Ulbrich comes in, who knows "who" decided it would be a good idea to put Morris over to help the DBs, but low and behold the pass rush starts getting home. 5 of 6 sacks were coverage sacks.

However, I think Sheffield is quietly making Tru very expendable. That's looking like a steal.

Ultimately, DQ may lose his job as he isn't on top of the right moves with coaches under himself and is overthinking matters. It will take a big run to end this year to save his job.

IDK about TD anymore. I just want consistency. If these coaches truly turn it around, and the players were mostly just fine? How can TD go? etc

I DO NOT want to change OCs again, but DK has to fine a way to blend more of the essential fundamentals of WCO into the pass game. Do we run as many times as we did if the Defense isn't shutting down the Saints? That was some old school Falcons drives yesterday. Shorten the game by limiting drives and turned the Saints offense into Falcons 2017 offense settling for FGs. THAT is what DQ seemed to go for bringing in Mularkey and trying to emphasize run Defense but vastly underestimated what the new front would be like with our ends, CBs, and LBs...Foye had the most snaps all year; tying his 43% D snaps from week 1.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/O/OluoFo00/gamelog/2019/

I can understand Neal/Allen being the S tandem again, but once Neal went down...did it really take this long to figure out Ish was a straight up liability and Allen/Kazee would be a better tandem? I mean, we tried to get Cyprien at least but once he hit IR why go back to Ish if you wanted someone else anyway? Where was Neasman being put back to SS? He closed the year there adequately after Richards didn't stick.

If we get Oliver and Sheffield balling, this could indeed be a quick turnaround in building the Defense up. Will take some savvy vets like AC and Tyeler sticking around another year while we bring along Cominsky/Takk and a couple draft picks. Fix the front 7 and figure out the S tandem moving forward (I think we can't get out of Neal's option but need a backup either way)...