Was it talent or coaching?

[falconsd56]

Just now, falcons007 said:

Not true. This coaching is a shell of the former self. 

Would not say shell...but i will grant you that the staff is different....thinking about it after i made the post there has been turnover for sure

[PeytonMannings Forehead]

42 minutes ago, Francis York Morgan said:

I seriously wonder how much influence Sutton has had. The farther away we get from that, the better the D looks.

He's been my main culprit from the start.  Like @vel pointed out months ago, a guy with that kind of experience and defensive profile wasn't hired just to help manage timeouts.  To be fair, though, I've been shooting at Bob and he might not have anything to do with it, but that stuff looked a lot closer to the D he was running in K.C. than anything we were running before he got here.

[Roanoke Falcon]

5 minutes ago, falconsd56 said:

Same coaching that got to the Super bowl and division round of playoffs too.

 

Wrong.

The OFFENSIVE coaching staff that led us to a historically great offense is completely different.

The DEFENSIVE coach, Dan Quinn, who produced the #26 defense that nearly blew multiple huge leads in the regular season, and nearly allowed us to lose several games where the offense scored 35+ points--- THAT is the coach that is still infesting our sidelines like a blight-carrying roach.

[NorthGaBoy]

1 hour ago, Sun Tzu 7 said:

So as of last week the Falcons talent level was terrible and the usual it was all TDs fault and blah blah.

Unless I was mistaken, other than the punter and kicker, this was mainly the same team and same players that came out today.

Has it been talent or coaching?

I've thought coaching but I'm curious to what everyone says now after a good performance.

And yes, it was one game, tons of things can still happen.

But let's all take a moment to stop and think about all the pain the Saints fans are in and be sure to soak it up.

I view it as more coaching structure than anything else.  While it is popular to bash Quinn on here lately, he has an impressive resume.  He did not lose his ability to coach.  When he took over the defense and added too many coaches to the offense, the team lost focus.  Now that he has changed the structure again and he is functioning as a HC, we seem to have much better focus.

It was a big mistake.  The results are that we lost a lot of games and that our HC is wiser and more experienced.  I am sure he learned from this costly mistake.  That makes him a better coach.  I want Quinn to stay.

[Fiercefalcon]

2 minutes ago, NaGaBoy said:

It was a big mistake.  The results are that we lost a lot of games and that our HC is wiser and more experienced.  I am sure he learned from this costly mistake.  That makes him a better coach.  I want Quinn to stay.

Let's pump the brakes there, buddy. Even a broken clock is right twice a day. 

[NorthGaBoy]

Just now, Fiercefalcon said:

Let's pump the brakes there, buddy. Even a broken clock is right twice a day. 

LMAO.  Good response.  And, point taken.

[TheUsualStuff]

1 hour ago, Sun Tzu 7 said:

So as of last week the Falcons talent level was terrible and the usual it was all TDs fault and blah blah.

Unless I was mistaken, other than the punter and kicker, this was mainly the same team and same players that came out today.

Has it been talent or coaching?

I've thought coaching but I'm curious to what everyone says now after a good performance.

And yes, it was one game, tons of things can still happen.

But let's all take a moment to stop and think about all the pain the Saints fans are in and be sure to soak it up.

Well for one thing when we got all those sacks, DQ would have called for a 3 man rush with 8 dropping into some uber passive coverage.

[falconsd56]

15 minutes ago, TheUsualStuff said:

Well for one thing when we got all those sacks, DQ would have called for a 3 man rush with 8 dropping into some uber passive coverage.

A couple of the sacks were on 3 man rush...dropping 8

[THEHEADCOACH]

It's the team as a whole. Today, everyone did better.  I honestly think DQ and his staff will get the defense back on track. Make no mistake, that defense had Quinn written all over it, even with Ulbrich calling it.  If the team keeps playing better, especially on defense, I think Blank should give Quinn more time. He made some mistakes, I've been hard on him, but sometimes you have to give a coach a chance to get the team back on track.  I still hate bringing dirk in here again though. Quinn is one of those guys I believe will learn from this. We can't keep kicking coaches out Everytime we fail.

[freefall]

40 minutes ago, falconsd56 said:

Same coaching that got to the Super bowl and division round of playoffs too.

 

First 8 games Quinn called plays on defense.  This game he didn’t.  That painted a horrible picture of Quinn to me.  So it was coaching excluding Quinn.

[freefall]

4 minutes ago, THEHEADCOACH said:

It's the team as a whole. Today, everyone did better.  I honestly think DQ and his staff will get the defense back on track. Make no mistake, that defense had Quinn written all over it, even with Ulbrich calling it.  If the team keeps playing better, especially on defense, I think Blank should give Quinn more time. He made some mistakes, I've been hard on him, but sometimes you have to give a coach a chance to get the team back on track.  I still hate bringing dirk in here again though. Quinn is one of those guys I believe will learn from this. We can't keep kicking coaches out Everytime we fail.

So Quinn defense is good when someone else call plays instead of him?  When Quinn has to call the plays the defense looks loss, confuse , wrong defensive formations were used, blown coverages left and right, etc... I don’t really know what to make of Quinn if today was his defense except someone else was calling plays except that he has been outsmarted by other teams OC in almost every game this season when he matched up against them.  A wasted season before Quinn realize he isn’t qualified to call plays, which is odd because he was a DC before being a HC.  Surely he must have called plays when he was the DC? 

[TheUsualStuff]

24 minutes ago, falconsd56 said:

A couple of the sacks were on 3 man rush...dropping 8

A couple were but several were not, and we were creative on when we brought blitzes, and we put a heavy emphasis on getting the pressure straight up the middle which took away Brees stepping up in the pocket to avoid the pressure. We also tightened up on the man coverage taking away the quick pass and forcing Brees to actually have to go through his progressions.

It looked very different than what we were doing prior to today. It seemed much more aggressive than what we had been doing with Quinn calling the plays (and the ST guy coaching the secondary).

[THEHEADCOACH]

1 minute ago, freefall said:

So Quinn defense is good when someone else call plays instead of him?  When Quinn has to call the plays the defense looks loss, confuse , wrong defensive formations were used, blown coverages left and right, etc... I don’t really know what to make of Quinn if today was his defense except someone else was calling plays except that he has been outsmarted by other teams OC in almost every game this season when he matched up against them.  A wasted season before Quinn realize he isn’t qualified to call plays, which is odd because he was a DC before being a HC.  Surely he must have called plays when he was the DC? 

 Quinn is more than qualified to call plays. That whole narrative that he don't know how to call a defense is trash. Yes our team has struggled this year, but I've seen a lot of players out of position and not making plays when they had chances. The team as a whole has been bad. In 16 our defense improved alot when Quinn took over calling the defense. You can't blame Quinn for this season, but also discredit what he did in 16 and with the Seahawks.  I think he tried to change a lot of things this year and it back fired. Player's have also fail him. The offense didn't help at all. People also fail to realize how inexperienced the secondary is, which is where alot of the problems have been. Quinn has been involved in this defense from day one and even when he isn't calling it.  He probably still has a big influence on what Ulbrich calls. I've been on Quinn as hard as anyone since he's been here. I would have kept KS over him after 16.  Thing is, people have went slap stupid trying to bash him and discredit him. 

[LouDog]

Both. Gotta have both to succeed in this league

[The Don™]

2 hours ago, PeytonMannings Forehead said:

We weren’t running that Seattle scheme to start the season. Quinn was rolling out some 3-4 hybrid — old fashioned 5-2 with the wrong pieces for it.

We were running something closer to that Seahawk scheme today.

Seattle ran 5-2 sets quite a bit actually when the legion of boom was around. Saleh with the 49ers tried to replicate that initially and when it didn't work, he went to the 4-3. There's a good video on YouTube of a guy breaking down the 49ers d and comparing it to the Seahawks D. If you type in 49ers defense, it's an 11 min video.

[Vandy]

1 hour ago, Roanoke Falcon said:

Shall I quote my posts stating that our problem wasn't a lack of talent, but horrible coaching by Dan Quinn? I am happy to do so!

I specifically said that on defense in particular, we really just need an Edge to replace the lax and lazy Vic Beasley (I stand behind that), a CB to replace Trufant, who will be a cap casualty, and a S to replace the oft-injured Neal. I said Takk may or not be salvageable, depending on if he can get over his mental instability issues.

When it is good for the team, I am more than happy to toot my own horn, and pat myself on the back.

Looks like you were 0-4 in “what You said” today. 

[Vandy]

8 minutes ago, THEHEADCOACH said:

 Quinn is more than qualified to call plays. That whole narrative that he don't know how to call a defense is trash. Yes our team has struggled this year, but I've seen a lot of players out of position and not making plays when they had chances. The team as a whole has been bad. In 16 our defense improved alot when Quinn took over calling the defense. You can't blame Quinn for this season, but also discredit what he did in 16 and with the Seahawks.  I think he tried to change a lot of things this year and it back fired. Player's have also fail him. The offense didn't help at all. People also fail to realize how inexperienced the secondary is, which is where alot of the problems have been. Quinn has been involved in this defense from day one and even when he isn't calling it.  He probably still has a big influence on what Ulbrich calls. I've been on Quinn as hard as anyone since he's been here. I would have kept KS over him after 16.  Thing is, people have went slap stupid trying to bash him and discredit him. 

Quinn has deserved the bashing.

[PeytonMannings Forehead]

16 minutes ago, The Don™ said:

Seattle ran 5-2 sets quite a bit actually when the legion of boom was around. Saleh with the 49ers tried to replicate that initially and when it didn't work, he went to the 4-3. There's a good video on YouTube of a guy breaking down the 49ers d and comparing it to the Seahawks D. If you type in 49ers defense, it's an 11 min video.

I know the San Fran video you’re talking about.

Not to get too deep into the weeds but the Under is basically a 5-2 front. That’s not quite what I’m talking about. Saleh went away from the Under and started stacking the LB’s among a few other tweaks. Jags did something similar.

What I’m talking about is the 3-4 stuff DQ went to. Seattle always mixed in 3-4 concepts but never based out it the way Quinn tried to. They ran the 3-4 Bear type stuff against run heavy teams. They rolled with it heavily against the 49ers for example when they had Harbaugh and all that zone read stuff.

Q not only tried to base out of it but he was out there mixing in okie fronts, nickel 2-4 looks, it was straight 3-4 stuff. 

That was a big departure from what we’ve been running.

 

[The Don™]

2 minutes ago, PeytonMannings Forehead said:

I know the San Fran video you’re talking about.

Not to get too deep into the weeds but the Under is basically a 5-2 front. That’s not quite what I’m talking about. Saleh went away from the Under and started stacking the LB’s among a few other tweaks. Jags did something similar.

What I’m talking about is the 3-4 stuff DQ went to. Seattle always mixed in 3-4 concepts but never based out it the way Quinn tried to. They ran the 3-4 Bear type stuff against run heavy teams. They rolled with it heavily against the 49ers for example when they had Harbaugh and all that zone read stuff.

They never based out of it the way Quinn tried to. Q not only tried to base out of it but he was out there mixing in okie fronts, nickel 2-4 looks, it was straight 3-4 stuff. 

That was a big departure from what we’ve been running.

 

I got you now. A little misunderstanding.

[RazorWing]

56 minutes ago, falconsd56 said:

A couple of the sacks were on 3 man rush...dropping 8

Better communication in the secondary

[THEHEADCOACH]

14 minutes ago, Vandy said:

Quinn has deserved the bashing.

Bashing is one thing. Making up BS and blaming him for things outside his control... Is plain stupid.

[freefall]

10 minutes ago, THEHEADCOACH said:

 Quinn is more than qualified to call plays. That whole narrative that he don't know how to call a defense is trash. Yes our team has struggled this year, but I've seen a lot of players out of position and not making plays when they had chances. The team as a whole has been bad. In 16 our defense improved alot when Quinn took over calling the defense. You can't blame Quinn for this season, but also discredit what he did in 16 and with the Seahawks.  I think he tried to change a lot of things this year and it back fired. Player's have also fail him. The offense didn't help at all. People also fail to realize how inexperienced the secondary is, which is where alot of the problems have been. Quinn has been involved in this defense from day one and even when he isn't calling it.  He probably still has a big influence on what Ulbrich calls. I've been on Quinn as hard as anyone since he's been here. I would have kept KS over him after 16.  Thing is, people have went slap stupid trying to bash him and discredit him. 

To me when you said you will take over plays calling and the defense look horrendous for 8 games, but all of a certain you gave up plays calling and the defense look like world beater, how do you expect people to react?  You brought up what Quinn did in 2016, the defense was 25th in yards and 27th in points allowed.  Getting the team to the SB?  I think you gave credit to the wrong man.  At best Quinn didn’t do enough damage to ruin that season like he has this one.  As for the offense not helping him out, as a defensive HC I expect him to help out the offense with his defense like today and not the other way around.  I am rarely ever critical of players or coaches, but when it comes to Quinn I just cannot help but think he doesn’t do anything to help the team.  He gave the team no advantages with his side of expertise.

[NeonDeion]

Talent being the issue never made any sense to me. This was the same roster and we had Neal the first few games. Was clearly coaching problem then and even more obvious now. I’ve said it 1000 times and I’ll say it again: TD is a Top 5 GM. 

[Vandy]

35 minutes ago, THEHEADCOACH said:

Bashing is one thing. Making up BS and blaming him for things outside his control... Is plain stupid.

Curious....What exactly is it you think you’ve seen folks making BS up on about Dan Quinn?
 

He was hired to fix the D, and D has been this team’s Achilles heel most of Quinn’s entire time here. That’s not BS, it’s unarguable facts.

[Ergo Proxy]