FalconsIn2012

Sell Me On Chase Young

180 posts in this topic

Smiler/Sidecar- I am not saying I dont like Chase Young. I think he will go Number One overall, I am just saying I want to see him against better competition outside of o-linemen from Indiana, Northwestern, and Cinn, all 2nd and third tier schools. And the videos I watched on You Tube of his 2019 Highlights he was executing one move on 95% of the video. Just a flat speed rush, if I am taking someone number 1 they better have some strength and show some leverage, swim moves, etc...We got a very raw player in VB and the scouting department busted a nut on him due to the hype I dont want to see us do it again on Young. I want to see more tape against better o-linemen. On You Tube look at linemen from Indiana and Cinn. they are standing straight up. They are terrible. 

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41 minutes ago, Sidecar Falcon said:

Uhmmm what? Please watch his film. He is definitely not a “tweener” or a “one trick pony”.
 

Joey Bosa coming out of college was 269, Nick Bosa coming out of college was 266, neither of those guys were considered “tweeners”. 

agreed - that is LOL funny saying Chase Young is a tweener - maybe if you wanted to say between DE/DT - :D

Chase Young is the PERFECT 4-3 Defensive End for the NFL - absolutely perfect.

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12 hours ago, kiwifalcon said:

While everyone worries about the players I’m more focused on off the field and coaching.

So in 2007 when this was a mess 4-12 team turned it around to 11-5 and the playoffs.One draft a new coach and coordinators new GM kitchen sink and all.

The idea that there’s not enough on that side of the ball right now but used properly is thee issue.

FA will have bugger all to do with how this team recovers next year.

Theres a consolidated thread on the front page explaining what can be done cap wise.So the idea we are hamstrung is somewhat exaggerated to prove a narrative.

Except that a major piece of that team was signed as a FA that offseason (Turner) and other key players signed as well. This team has more holes than that 2007 team did and they look more inept than that 4-12 team. I know what can be done with the cap, ive seen it and even tried a few things on my own. To better our cap situation there are going to be even more players cut or traded, do you really think this team can turn it around in one year? 

Yes there are secondary issues but when is the last time there was a dominant force on the line, Chase Young, Jarrett, and Tak would do wonders for this defense. 

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22 minutes ago, djbrough said:

I'll take him or Epenesa. Epenesa's hand usage and brute strength are ahead of Young right now. Young is the better athlete.

Epenesa is a mailer.  Very gifted.  Guesses less than Young.  Penalties have been an issue with Young cause he is trying to guess the snap count. 

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1 hour ago, Refried Beans said:

Smiler/Sidecar- I am not saying I dont like Chase Young. I think he will go Number One overall, I am just saying I want to see him against better competition outside of o-linemen from Indiana, Northwestern, and Cinn, all 2nd and third tier schools. And the videos I watched on You Tube of his 2019 Highlights he was executing one move on 95% of the video. Just a flat speed rush, if I am taking someone number 1 they better have some strength and show some leverage, swim moves, etc...We got a very raw player in VB and the scouting department busted a nut on him due to the hype I dont want to see us do it again on Young. I want to see more tape against better o-linemen. On You Tube look at linemen from Indiana and Cinn. they are standing straight up. They are terrible. 

Did you not watch the 4 sacks, 2 forced fumbles game against Wisconsin? A team with one of the best o-linemen in all of college football and NFL prospects.

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1 hour ago, DirtyBird2 said:

Except that a major piece of that team was signed as a FA that offseason (Turner) and other key players signed as well. This team has more holes than that 2007 team did and they look more inept than that 4-12 team. I know what can be done with the cap, ive seen it and even tried a few things on my own. To better our cap situation there are going to be even more players cut or traded, do you really think this team can turn it around in one year? 

Yes there are secondary issues but when is the last time there was a dominant force on the line, Chase Young, Jarrett, and Tak would do wonders for this defense. 

What holes are they.

Edge LBer and coaches.This year resourcing you can pretty much throw the kitchen sink at thee defense.

Of course I think it’s possible we’ve got experience and a track record of doing so anything’s possible.I think the narrative when talking cap and situations like this every other team can do it but the Falcons can’t it’s common round here.

There is no way this team has more holes than 07 not a chance.In 07-08 the franchise was an absolute mess.

Thee 07 team didn’t have a QB thee most important part of the puzzle.Yes they signed Turner and no doubt he was important.This team right now has more pieces on it than that 07 team did.

Coaching and the decisions they make off the field will dictate how quickly this thing turns around not who or what goes on it.The idea this can’t be turned around quickly s a misnomer in my eyes.

 

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13 minutes ago, kiwifalcon said:

What holes are they.

Edge LBer and coaches.This year resourcing you can pretty much throw the kitchen sink at thee defense.

Of course I think it’s possible we’ve got experience and a track record of doing so anything’s possible.I think the narrative when talking cap and situations like this every other team can do it but the Falcons can’t it’s common round here.

There is no way this team has more holes than 07 not a chance.In 07-08 the franchise was an absolute mess.

Thee 07 team didn’t have a QB thee most important part of the puzzle.Yes they signed Turner and no doubt he was important.This team right now has more pieces on it than that 07 team did.

Coaching and the decisions they make off the field will dictate how quickly this thing turns around not who or what goes on it.The idea this can’t be turned around quickly s a misnomer in my eyes.

 

So CB and safety arent an issue? A second DT to go along with Jarrett? And again, in order to improve the cap some players have to get cut/traded and replaced. Mack is probably gone as a cap casualty, Tru and Campbell as well.

Just because the 07 team didnt have a QB doesnt mean it was a worse roster, the pieces were there. There is no way this team competes next year, too many moves have to be made. Even if the talent is there, who is to say the next HC wants all those players, what if the defense is switch to a 3-4? 

 

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I don't know a lot about technique, but I love watching him play. Great effort during games, works hard outside the game, and seems like a good kid. He is the type of talent I would sacrifice draft capital for. I know we need the picks, but this kid is special and can be the next Mack, Miller, or Bosa brothers. Look at what those guys did for their respective teams. All the best defenses in football have that type of talent. Look at the Saints with Cam Jordan. You take Cam off that defense and they would be completely different. He could easily vault us to the middle of the pack on defense which is good enough with our offensive talent.

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11 minutes ago, DirtyBird2 said:

So CB and safety arent an issue? A second DT to go along with Jarrett? And again, in order to improve the cap some players have to get cut/traded and replaced. Mack is probably gone as a cap casualty, Tru and Campbell as well.

Just because the 07 team didnt have a QB doesnt mean it was a worse roster, the pieces were there. There is no way this team competes next year, too many moves have to be made. Even if the talent is there, who is to say the next HC wants all those players, what if the defense is switch to a 3-4? 

 

Fix the front before I fix the back.

Front 7 to me is where I’d devote my resourcing.

I want to see more from my rookie and sophomore corners.Jurys out I’m not gonna throw the sink there until I fix what’s in front of them.

QB is thee most important piece on the team we didn’t have one.As soon as we did the franchise went on the most successful run in its history.

Your  asking what if questions about a defensive swap now.What if they don’t and stay 43 :shrug:.

I personally think when we get a new coach he’ll be offensive minded and looking what he’s got to work with he’ll be like yep I can use that.Defensively they need a remodel for sure that’s why I’m thinking as above retool the front 7 around Debo and Jarrett.

 

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1 hour ago, kiwifalcon said:

Fix the front before I fix the back.

Front 7 to me is where I’d devote my resourcing.

I want to see more from my rookie and sophomore corners.Jurys out I’m not gonna throw the sink there until I fix what’s in front of them.

QB is thee most important piece on the team we didn’t have one.As soon as we did the franchise went on the most successful run in its history.

Your  asking what if questions about a defensive swap now.What if they don’t and stay 43 :shrug:.

I personally think when we get a new coach he’ll be offensive minded and looking what he’s got to work with he’ll be like yep I can use that.Defensively they need a remodel for sure that’s why I’m thinking as above retool the front 7 around Debo and Jarrett.

 

So wouldnt Young help fix the front? The whole point to this thread and my initial comment as to selling the OP on Young?

 

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On 11/5/2019 at 11:16 AM, FalconsIn2012 said:

First things first, dude is an absolute beast.  He is the most dominant defensive player since Clowney.  In fact, Clowney is my comp for Young.  Which begs the following question:

If the Falcons pick 3rd and Young is still available, do we select him? Would you be satisfied with Clowney-type production at #3?  

The other options are to draft the top DB available, draft Burrow (a pick made looking a year ahead) or trade the pick for a treasure trove of draft capital to a QB needy team.  

So sell me on Young.  Drafting him will mean we’ve invested six first round picks in six years on our OL/DL.  Both are still trash

Here's my question....how many years are we going to give Chase Young to solidify that he would be worth the 3rd overall pick?  It took Clowney until 2017 to get through the "high rank prospect" to "draft bust label" to "dominant force."  Beasley did it backwards, going from lower end draft projection, drafted high, hot out of the gate, then tapering off to first round bust.  Players like Mack are consistent almost all the way, and I think that's what we are looking for, but again, how long would Young have to prove himself before we start treating him like Beasley or any other failed defender whether or not ATL has drafted them?

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1 hour ago, texasfalconfan said:

I want ya to double dip on de hopefully young I. The first and Zuniga out of Florida In The second

We can draft 1 million edge rushers, they all will fail here with our interior DL and secondary.

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2 hours ago, DirtyBird2 said:

So wouldnt Young help fix the front? The whole point to this thread and my initial comment as to selling the OP on Young?

 

I think better coaching will fix that front more so than just plugging in one guy.

Don’t get me wrong here Young can help but he’s not a saviour like everyone wants him to be.The Dline is like the Oline it’s the unit that’ll predicate individuals success.

I also think Steven Means would’ve helped aswell.I hope we bring him back under rated guy in my eyes.

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3 hours ago, DirtyBird2 said:

So CB and safety arent an issue? A second DT to go along with Jarrett? And again, in order to improve the cap some players have to get cut/traded and replaced. Mack is probably gone as a cap casualty, Tru and Campbell as well.

Just because the 07 team didnt have a QB doesnt mean it was a worse roster, the pieces were there. There is no way this team competes next year, too many moves have to be made. Even if the talent is there, who is to say the next HC wants all those players, what if the defense is switch to a 3-4? 

 

Get the right coach, this team will compete next year. 

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7 hours ago, Refried Beans said:

Ok I like Chase Young but I'd like to see him a little bigger. 6'5 265 is boarderline tweener and I get Vic Beasley vibes. He's a pure speed rusher just like VB and if you watch his highlights most of the linemen he is beating have terrible technique, this will not be the same in the NFL. All of his sacks come from utilizing his speed. Go to you tube and watch his 2019 highlights. He's a hyped player and his game against Wisconsin helped his draft status. But at this point I would like to see him against better competition before I declare him the 2nd coming. I want to see him move some people vs. just utilizing one move which is his speed. We got a one trick pony in VB and Takk let's make sure before we waste another first round pick we dont make the same mistake a 3rd time.

Crazy talk. Young is prototypical size and length you look for in an EDGE. 

And FYI, the main reason VB hasn't been successful isn't because he's a "tweener"....it's because of what's between his ears and in his heart.  

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30 minutes ago, federicofalcon2 said:

Here's my question....how many years are we going to give Chase Young to solidify that he would be worth the 3rd overall pick?  It took Clowney until 2017 to get through the "high rank prospect" to "draft bust label" to "dominant force."  Beasley did it backwards, going from lower end draft projection, drafted high, hot out of the gate, then tapering off to first round bust.  Players like Mack are consistent almost all the way, and I think that's what we are looking for, but again, how long would Young have to prove himself before we start treating him like Beasley or any other failed defender whether or not ATL has drafted them?

This is why the unit playing there roles helps a guy like Young.Watching him against college opposition is misleading in some aspects.

Its clear his talent is above what he’s playing against weekly and there are transferable traits.But some of that stuff he’s winning with will get stalemated at the next level and hence why when he’s put into a unit like ours it’ll help him immensely if the others do there jobs so Young can flourish.

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23 hours ago, g-dawg said:

there is no sure bet on getting the two first round picks and getting them BOTH right.   All you have to do is look at the history of 1st round picks to see this - first round picks bust at about a 50% rate - if one of the two picks you get back in the trade bust - you likely lost the transaction.  If you believe you are giving up a multiple pro-bowl player to move back - you are probably gonna lose that trade.   The odds that two 1st round picks will be better than a Khalil Mack-type player - you are betting on the wrong side.

I would riverside your bet and beat you 7 time out of 10.

I hear you....but the reverse is true as well....there's been plenty of "sure things" who turned out to be spectacular busts as well. 

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14 minutes ago, Vandy said:

I hear you....but the reverse is true as well....there's been plenty of "sure things" who turned out to be spectacular busts as well. 

Falcons have missed out on the two best defensive players in the game in Aaron Donald and Khalil Mack when one was available and the other was in striking distance.   Would prefer not to go 3-for-3.

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10 minutes ago, g-dawg said:

Falcons have missed out on the two best defensive players in the game in Aaron Donald and Khalil Mack when one was available and the other was in striking distance.   Would prefer not to go 3-for-3.

Oddly enough, both Donald & Mack were drafted several picks behind the last generational defensive prospect, Clowney.

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2 minutes ago, FalconsIn2012 said:

Oddly enough, both Donald & Mack were drafted several picks behind the last generational defensive prospect, Clowney.

^ This. 
Not to mention that Mack was passed on by the Rams for Greg Robinson. 

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21 minutes ago, Vandy said:

I hear you....but the reverse is true as well....there's been plenty of "sure things" who turned out to be spectacular busts as well. 

I agree.  Jamaal Anderson was that for us, as well as Peria Jerry.  Then the number one overall in history Ryan Leaf.  Thankfully we never took that idiot.

5 minutes ago, g-dawg said:

Falcons have missed out on the two best defensive players in the game in Aaron Donald and Khalil Mack when one was available and the other was in striking distance.   Would prefer not to go 3-for-3.

Well history has shown that no one really knows for sure how someone is going to play just because they have talent or a good team.  I usually use the Randy Moss example.  He was drafted into a well off Vikings team and added to their success.  After falling out of favor in MIN, he was traded to OAK in 2005.  While his stats were decent, he was not performing the way that he had been in MIN with 1400 yard averages and double digit touchdowns.  OAK then traded him to NE in 2007 where he got back to being the lethal weapon he was before while almost winning a SB title.

Now, I know this may be silly because he is a vested veteran.  But I just try to think of it as just because someone performs well indivudally, doesn;t always result in team success.  Beasley can be listed as one of those who benefited from his raised stats in his JR and SR year.  He performed ELITE one year so far and below average the rest of his career in the NFL.  
 

Another example is Grady Jarrett.  He has performed well enough to at least be in the conversation with Aaron Donald, if not just below.  And he went in the 5th.  Seeing players as they are now, and saying that we missed isn't really fair because no one can tell how someone will work out in the long run, or even in the short run.  

Then again we could be the Oakland Raiders......they missed out on Larry Fitz, Aaron Rodgers, Calvin Johnson, and numerous others since 2005 by drafting who they did, instead of the eventual pick who came right after lol

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32 minutes ago, g-dawg said:

Falcons have missed out on the two best defensive players in the game in Aaron Donald and Khalil Mack when one was available and the other was in striking distance.   Would prefer not to go 3-for-3.

To be clear, I would love to have Young. But I'm not trading valuable picks to move up a few spots to grab him. Just as I wouldn't have last year for TAFT board flavor of month Ed Oliver. 

A whole lotta teams passed on Aaron Donald, and matt ryan would now be in a wheelchair if we hadn't drafted Jake Matthews. 

Mack was off the board. Quite a stretch to suggest falcons "missed out" on him. Rams, Jags, Bills for sure, as they passed on him. But falcons didn't. 

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14 minutes ago, FalconsIn2012 said:

Oddly enough, both Donald & Mack were drafted several picks behind the last generational defensive prospect, Clowney.

Oddly enough - there was a growing contingent that preferred Khalil Mack over Jadeveon Clowney - Mike Mayock included.

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