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Summerhill

Why Dimitroff has to go

109 posts in this topic

It has always been my understanding that personnel decisions are made collaboratively, meaning they are based on input from many people at different levels.

I saw a programme about the Giants a few years back where they were making decisions collaboratively. By draft day, each prospect had been scouted by  8 or 9 People in the organisation, and they had the GM, scouts and senior coaches inputting in to their daft board and draft picks. Having “final say” in an area doesn’t mean that you simply ignore others and impose your will. It means listening to others and accommodating their views when that are odds with your own.

FWIW, I think TD has always been one to listen to and accommodate his coaches. Wasn’t that the narrative in 2013/14, when TD supposedly wanted to prioritise the pass rush but Smith felt that he could generate a risk with his scheme and resources should be prioritised elsewhere?

For a number of years, I’ve suspected that we prioritise CB’s ans WR’s at the expense of the trenches because of Arthur Blank. It’s an approach that goes back before TD’s appointment, to at least the early 2000’s. We play in an indoor stadium which turn every game in to track meet, and suspect the thinking in the organisation is that we need flashy skilled players To excite and appeal to a transient and often apathetic fanbase.

athell, MSalmon, kiwifalcon and 1 other like this

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7 hours ago, Akod2017 said:

I believe it was said on here that TD has traded up in the first round 6 times since he’s been here. Pretty sure Quinn wasn’t around for all of those...

 

TD came from the Patriots and has done the polar opposite of their strategy electing to nut over the guys he deems perfect and sacrificing depth. This started long before Quinn. The SEC is in his backyard and he only takes LSU guys. 

man this is such a tired and incorrect narrative....just right off the top of my head....JULIO JONES, CALVIN RIDLEY....Mike Johnson, Akeem Dent....I know there's more, I'm just going from immediate memory. I also know there are several UDFAs that have been brought in, esp from GA, but haven't stuck around. I'm not going to take the time to go find them all, to keep from embarrassing you any further. I'll just say

 

just do some research before you talk out your ***, it'll keep you from looking like such a buffoon....

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I think you clean house at this point.

The funny thing is we are a couple running plays from TD and Quinn having get out of jail free cards for almost life. I still think that game was the downfall of this regime. It feels like they started panicking and making dumb decisions after that game.

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4 hours ago, Refried Beans said:

Cheap Talk, and dont forget McKay he needs to go too he hired TD. 

No, definitely not McKay! My choice would be to bring back Pioli, knows everything there is to know about the organization.

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I think Quinn and Dimitroff had an ultimatum of deep playoff run or bust from Blank so they sandbagged all they could on 2019. You just know if that happened they could have a ****** 2020 while they 'fixed the cap' and still be here 2021...

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The whole structure of authority is quiet confusing.. Even thought TD and Pioli were in charge of Draft and FA, i'm sure DQ had heavy influence on who he wanted, and TD tried to make it happen... Not trying to take  up or resolve TD because we honestly dont know what was being said behind closed doors.. Though i think DQ needs to go, just for the sake of the SB loss.  He will never escape that here in Atlanta... He looks like a desperate man bringing in all these ex coaches and GMs ( and maybe TD is responsible for bringing in ex Gms...really dont know) and it has made matters worst.  I think he set back this franchise when he hired Sark. I'm not going to rag on Sark because he started making progress in the 2nd year, but it was a little too late. He should have hired within a Shanny disciple, and maybe we wouldnt be having this conversation.  But plain and simple, DQ has ruined the prime years of MR and JJ

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5 hours ago, JOEinPHX said:

This cuts to the meat of the matter.  It was central to the rift that developed between Mike Smith and TD - Smitty's draft/FA philosophy was always to build for sustained success, TD's was to try to hit home runs by spending draft capital freely (which, as noted, is the opposite of the Patriot way, and calls into question the significance of his role in New England).

As unpopular a take as this has been over the years, the decline and fall of the Falcons began with the drafting of Julio Jones, a pure TD move that killed offensive/defensive balance and ultimately gutted the depth chart.  They made a recovery in 2016, but then fell again with a draft philosophy that swung too heavily to the defensive side and featured too many bad picks.

I definitely agree. Got us in 2011 when we could have fixed the DL and OL, plus drafted Turner's replacement. Then got us again with a lifetime contract that sucked the life out of our cap table. Tried to go explosive and exploded.

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37 minutes ago, FalconFanSince1970 said:

I definitely agree. Got us in 2011 when we could have fixed the DL and OL, plus drafted Turner's replacement. Then got us again with a lifetime contract that sucked the life out of our cap table. Tried to go explosive and exploded.

No we couldn’t according to you and many others Dimi can’t draft LoS.

But we could have fixed it :rolleyes:

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Get real. Quinn doesnt care if he gets fired at this point. He knows he and TD know they will never be able to build a team the way they want to with a clown like Blank owning the team. How do you have such a good draft in 2016 and free agent aquisition and then follow it up with two years of garbage. Here's how they owner let you do it your way until you had one bad year and then once you had one losing season he and McKay stepped in and started telling you who you were going to draft, who was going to be your OC and DC and also you were going to re-sign Julio. I wouldnt want to be here either at least Petrino and Mora jr. balled up and just left or asked to be fired. We lose because of Blank, McKay and the poor scouts and we will continue to lose so long as Blank, McKay and the poor scouts are here. 

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Pioli our assistant GM up and left right after this year's draft that should prove to Atlanta fans Blank and loser McKay are in the way on draft day. 

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10 hours ago, Sun Tzu 7 said:

To be clear I'm not saying TD should stay.

I just don't agree with the narrative that the personnel issues are more on him than DQ.

My main argument is that at one point these guys could play.  Now guys are screwing up all over the place.  Kazee was making plays as a safety but he looks lost as a nickel corner.

Quinn was getting all the credit when Debo and Campbell were making plays and Beasley was leading the league in sacks.  Now several years into the system they've massively regressed and we're saying that's more on the GM than coaching?  I just don't agree.

Again,  not saying TD should be safe.  I'm just saying you can't blame TD without blaming Quinn as well

 

Totally agree. None of these guys are truly lacking talent and only Vic is lacking heart 

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12 hours ago, g-dawg said:

It seemed Arthur Blank was pulling the strings on the 2019 off-season with the Lindstrom/McGary/Carpenter/Brown. Draft and Free Agency.  It was very odd.

Almost seems like Dimitroff/QUINN wanted to be done with the O-Line with Carp/Brown signings and re-signing Sambrailo and then Artie came in and said “not good enough”.

It was very late in draft process when Falcons went on the road to work out Lindstrom and McGary.

Everyone was convinced Falcons were taking a DT.  
 

Hmmmmm.....:o

The fans were crying for more quick fixes on the O-Line, and The Falcons over-reached in the draft.

They needed Ed Oliver or Montez sweatto play along-side Jarrett and/or one of the DE spots.

O-Line picks be may pay down the road..

I do feel bad hat the FO listens to the fan outrage too much 

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1 hour ago, Rise said:

The fans were crying for more quick fixes on the O-Line, and The Falcons over-reached in the draft.

They needed Ed Oliver or Montez sweatto play along-side Jarrett and/or one of the DE spots.

O-Line picks be may pay down the road..

I do feel bad hat the FO listens to the fan outrage too much 

No they didn’t they needed Beasley and Takk to develop into the pass rushers they potentially could be.They didn’t need to draft edge.

They being the players and coaches have reached a point where the guys they put there names on stopped getting better thats the issue.

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8 hours ago, Rise said:

The fans were crying for more quick fixes on the O-Line, and The Falcons over-reached in the draft.

They needed Ed Oliver or Montez sweatto play along-side Jarrett and/or one of the DE spots.

O-Line picks be may pay down the road..

I do feel bad hat the FO listens to the fan outrage too much 

I bet they’re listening now.

Drafting Lindstrom made no sense to me, not after going on a spending spree for FA offensive guards. Dexter Lawrence was who I wanted after Wilkins was off the board.

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14 hours ago, FalconFanSince1970 said:

I definitely agree. Got us in 2011 when we could have fixed the DL and OL, plus drafted Turner's replacement. Then got us again with a lifetime contract that sucked the life out of our cap table. Tried to go explosive and exploded.

OL was playing good at the time, we just couldn't afford to keep Dahl, and Clabo. But I do agree that TD is atrocious at building Ol/DL and picking coaches. Time for him to go and us to go in another direction. 

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19 hours ago, JDaveG said:

That makes me wonder whether bringing Koetter and Mularkey back wasn't at Blank's urging too.

Why?  Because why bring them back if they opposed the one move that defines why this team began to lose depth and balance, UNLESS it was to give some feedback on the front office.

It's possible Quinn brought them back because he heard the same thing through the grapevine and wanted some people who had lived through it to bear witness, but that seems more far-fetched.  It's also possible Quinn brought the back because he believes they're the right people for the job and it's all a great coincidence.  But Lord, I can't imagine why Mularkey would take the job.  So it leads me to speculate that Blank may have told him "I need some fresh eyes on this operation -- can you help?"

I'm probably way off though.

I suspect Koetter and Mularkey were brought back simply because of the familiarity factor, and because they harked back to periods of earlier Falcons success.  That would almost certainly be a motivator for Blank.  I don't know if he pushed for their return, but I'm sure he supported it.  As for Mularkey's motivation - he's a lifer, and the Falcons position was probably the best offer on his table.

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On 10/31/2019 at 11:20 AM, Summerhill said:

I've historically been pretty neutral on Dimitroff. I've never piled on killing Dimitroff for random decisions here or there that did or didn't work out. All GM's make mistakes and sometimes you have a bad hand and have to try something which there are no good options. 

But I think I reached the point where he has go because of this season for one reason.  

The most important thing for any executive level manager to get right is you have to know which way the wind is blowing and if you're going to have a problem, you have to know ahead of time and not get blindsided. The NFL is the most competitive league on the planet. Every team has the same resources and rules are in place to bring down good teams and prop up bad teams. You're going to fail sometimes and that's ok but you have to plan for these failures so they don't bring you down too far and so you can more quickly bounce back. You have to know when to hold 'em and know when to fold 'em. 

Everything the Falcons did this season indicates they had no idea something like this was going to happen. They made numerous moves to maximize their chances of winning this season while detracting from their ability to win in 2020 and 2021. To do that and then have a season like this is inexcusable. 

Let's look at some of these moves and how they will inhibit the future: 

  • Ty Sambrailo: He's basically useless and will carry $5.7 million cap hit in 2020. To cut him after this season will leave $2 million in dead cap. 
  • James Carpenter: He hasn't been completely useless, but he's not a building block. He'll count $5.2 million against the cap in 2020 and to cut him after this season would leave $4 million in dead cap. 
  • Jamon Brown: He's still young so it's arguable whether he's a building block but he's basically JAG and will count $6.5 million against the cap in 2020 and would cost $8 million in dead cap to get rid of him. 
  • Ricardo Allen: Was scheduled to have cap hits of $6.5 million in 2020 and 2021. After re-structuring, will have cap hit of $7.3 million in 2020 and $8.3 million in 2021. 
  • Jake Matthews: Re-structure added roughly $1 million cap hit to every season left on his contract 2020-2023. 
  • Matt Ryan: Re-structure added roughly $2 million cap hit to every season left on his contract 2020-2023. 

Whatever rebuild or retooling the Falcons do in 2020 is going to be twice as difficult because of poorly conceived moves made to win big in 2019. If the Falcons literally did nothing this past offseason, they'd still be 1-7 or 0-8 but be in much better shape for making moves in 2020. 

Investing so many resources in the OL in Free Agency and then double dipping in the first round was a head scratcher to me.  If you know you are going to re-sign Sambrailo for fringe starter type money, why trade up for McGary?  This is what happens when you essentially put an ultimatum on your coach to get it done this year (return to the playoffs, win a game or two) or he's gone.  Short-term thinking that doesn't work out hurts you long-term. 

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4 hours ago, Vandy said:

I bet they’re listening now.

Drafting Lindstrom made no sense to me, not after going on a spending spree for FA offensive guards. Dexter Lawrence was who I wanted after Wilkins was off the board.

the great passrushing DT Dexter Lawrence has 11 tackles and 2.5 sacks.

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2 hours ago, g-dawg said:

the great passrushing DT Dexter Lawrence has 11 tackles and 2.5 sacks.

That’s not bad what does the Run D look like with Lawrence anchoring it?

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4 minutes ago, kiwifalcon said:

That’s not bad what does the Run D look look me with Lawrence anchoring it?

Giants defense allowing 4.0 YPA. Falcons defense 3.8 YPA. 

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30 minutes ago, kiwifalcon said:

That’s not bad what does the Run D look look me with Lawrence anchoring it?

his production is not great and everyone that was gaga for DexLawrence was trying to convince that he would be a much better passrusher in NFL.     Doesn't look that way so far - granted on short sample size.

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17 hours ago, kiwifalcon said:

No we couldn’t according to you and many others Dimi can’t draft LoS.

But we could have fixed it :rolleyes:

Excellent point, how could it have hurt anything if TD could not draft anyone worth their salt anyway?

They are taking that one good thing that TD did, and turning into the one bad thing he did. Little upside down?

(Not that TD knew it was a good thing, because the majority of the time that kind of trade is a fail. Thank goodness he did not realize that, and stupid won out.)

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2 hours ago, Summerhill said:

Giants defense allowing 4.0 YPA. Falcons defense 3.8 YPA. 

Have they improved from last years run D with Lawrence I mean a lot of the YPA could be on the fact they are running away from Dex.

I remember seeing a lot of that when Linval Joseph was there teams just decide no thanks and we will run over here.

2.5 sacks isn’t bad for half a season as a rookie.22 tackles half of those by himself.I’d take that from a rookie in that spot.

Giants may have the same issue as us can’t defend on the edge to save ourselves.

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