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Summerhill

Why Dimitroff has to go

109 posts in this topic

7 minutes ago, g-dawg said:

If we are being 100% honest - 2012 when the Raven won the SuperBowl w/ Joe Flacco over Niners/Kaepernick - was probably the worst year of NFL Football in the last 15 years - that was a year we could have won - but be honest, that team wasn't that good - especially on defense.

Yea and the crap DL was a big part in us giving up big leads. It's been a consistent issue for us since he has been our GM.

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1 hour ago, Sun Tzu 7 said:

To be clear I'm not saying TD should stay.

I just don't agree with the narrative that the personnel issues are more on him than DQ.

My main argument is that at one point these guys could play.  Now guys are screwing up all over the place.  Kazee was making plays as a safety but he looks lost as a nickel corner.

Quinn was getting all the credit when Debo and Campbell were making plays and Beasley was leading the league in sacks.  Now several years into the system they've massively regressed and we're saying that's more on the GM than coaching?  I just don't agree.

Again,  not saying TD should be safe.  I'm just saying you can't blame TD without blaming Quinn as well

 

I'm sensing a bit of Dimi homerism in you. Make no mistake about it he has been the crux of our problems for years.

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25 minutes ago, FalconFanSince1970 said:

I'm sensing a bit of Dimi homerism in you. Make no mistake about it he has been the crux of our problems for years.

Yep, and his only saving grace has been cap management but even that seems to have fallen apart recently and will be a huge burden next year.

So now not only has he proven over the last 12 years he can't build a decent OL or DL now even his cap skills have gone to crap.

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1 hour ago, g-dawg said:

It seemed Arthur Blank was pulling the strings on the 2019 off-season with the Lindstrom/McGary/Carpenter/Brown. Draft and Free Agency.  It was very odd.

Almost seems like Dimitroff/QUINN wanted to be done with the O-Line with Carp/Brown signings and re-signing Sambrailo and then Artie came in and said “not good enough”.

It was very late in draft process when Falcons went on the road to work out Lindstrom and McGary.

Everyone was convinced Falcons were taking a DT.  
 

Hmmmmm.....:o

It was one of the weirdest offseasons in recent memory. 

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Blank said Thomas Dimitrof was responsible for the draft an free agency and that Scott Pioli was in charge of running the draft and free agency, and Dan Quinn was in charge of the final roster. Translated Quinn can only manage a roster of players given to him by TD, Pioli and the terrible scouting department. Anyone notice Pioli left Atlanta right after the draft, in May. So it sounds like Pioli realized he was about to be exposed, fired,  or wasn't on same page with the other 4 loser ex-GMs that cant draft and he got out of dodge. Actions speak louder than words. Pioli was TDs friend and hired to help him pick linemen. Someone obviously told Pioli somewhere in the draft he didn't know what he was doing. Pioli had been in Atlanta for five years and was assistant GM, so Falcon fans need to ask what happened? Did Blank step in and make TD and Pioli take a pick? McKay? Gotta be a reason coaches and now GMs leave in the middle of the night on this franchise. Pioli had no other job lined up or interviews so I think he was either getting ready to get fired or got sick of someone in his way of trying to do his job. 

Edited by Refried Beans
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31 minutes ago, FalconFanSince1970 said:

I'm sensing a bit of Dimi homerism in you. Make no mistake about it he has been the crux of our problems for years.

No, he has to go.

The continued failures of the pass rush is reason enough for me.

I prefer someone that prioritizes the trenches and pass rush over receivers.

However, I do find it amusing that people watching the games and seeing the same things I am are thinking the problems are more on the GM than coaching.

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24 minutes ago, BlazerSlayer said:

I think everyone would agree the Falcons have talent on the roster, that is most likely due to TD. I'm more inclined to fire DQ at end of season and go from there. A lot of the issues seem to come from him. Good players not showing up on Sunday's. Thats not TD's fault.

The Roster is completely Top heavy on offensive skill positions and only recently has even eeked a bit of effort in the tenches. We are also going to be in cap **** due to offensive skill positions.

TD gambled that our offense for a few years could over come any issues in the tenches or on the defense as a whole and now it has all fallen apart with no ring.

A skilled GM would have built a team over the last 12 years in a balanced manner.

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4 minutes ago, MAD597 said:

The Roster is completely Top heavy on offensive skill positions and only recently has even eeked a bit of effort in the tenches. We are also going to be in cap **** due to offensive skill positions.

TD gambled that our offense for a few years could over come any issues in the tenches or on the defense as a whole and now it has all fallen apart with no ring.

A skilled GM would have built a team over the last 12 years in a balanced manner.

Question, do you think in 2018 TD went against the wishes of the HC and went WR when there was a bigger need on the DL?  Or do you think Quinn was cool with that?

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Falcons are the new Detroit Lions with all their money tied up in Matt Stafford and Calvin Johnson and no offensive or defensive line. I mean Matt Ryan and Julio Jones and no offensive or defensive lines. You wanna see where we go from here? See Detroit. Matt Millen=Rich McKay.

Edited by Refried Beans

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The reason Blank hasnt bounced Quinn or TD is because Blank knows he McKay and the dinosaur scouts got in TD and Quinn's way in the draft and forced them to draft o-linemen and now instead of having a young defensive tackle to help out Grady Jarrett and to free up Beasley to do his thing we have a undersized d-line and a inexperienced o-line and now the fan base is out for blood. Blank needs to let McKay and some of his dinosaur scouts take the fall. They are retirement age anyway get them out. 

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2 hours ago, g-dawg said:

It seemed Arthur Blank was pulling the strings on the 2019 off-season with the Lindstrom/McGary/Carpenter/Brown. Draft and Free Agency.  It was very odd.

Almost seems like Dimitroff/QUINN wanted to be done with the O-Line with Carp/Brown signings and re-signing Sambrailo and then Artie came in and said “not good enough”.

It was very late in draft process when Falcons went on the road to work out Lindstrom and McGary.

Everyone was convinced Falcons were taking a DT.  
 

Hmmmmm.....:o

Interesting!

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2 hours ago, MAD597 said:

It is BS to say that TD has no say on the roster, he is GM, he hires the scouts that give everyone in the org information of players to be picked in the draft and picked up in FA. Thier is no way possible that TD is not involved in shaping this roster in one way shape or form. so you can stop right their tying to absolve him from this mess. He is GM the buck stops with him.

It's also no coincidence that since TD has been GM our OLs and DLs have suffered. We see the same patterns in our trenches since TD has been GM, our OL and DL are usually under weight, weak and get pushed around.  We give up to many sacks and are never able to sack the QB. TD has whiffed on almost all of his OL and DL picks, Matthews and Grady have been the RARE exception the past 11 years. He has whiffed on OL and DL FA's, Alex Mack the rare exception to that.

TD is simply not capable of evaluating OL and DL talent.

Multiple Head Coaches, OC's, DC's and the one constant has been TD and the fact our trenches almost always suck. That is no coincidence

TD needs to be fired for that alone.

We need a GM that can consistently build the roster from the inside out, 

 

We need some consistency for 2020 to have any chance of succeeding. I think Quinn should go and TD should stay-on to continue the scouting process, or else promote a GM from within, would definitely be down for that.

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I think the fact that he’s been here 10+ years and has still failed to build the trenches is reason enough. Jake Matthews and Grady Jarrett are the only hits he has had on the OL/DL. McGary and Lindstrom could still be solid, but that still doesn’t excuse nearly every draft pick fail from him. 
 

Peria Jerry, Kroy Beirmann, Sam Baker, Garrett Reynolds, Mike Johnson, Jonathan Massaquoi, Peter Konz, Lamar Holmes, Mallicah Goodman, Stanley Maponga, Jake Rodgers, Wes Schweitzer, Sean Harlow. I mean look at this list of trash players he drafted. He’s hit on maybe 3-4 trench picks in 10 years. **** him. 

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2 hours ago, athell said:

Yea...I am of the opinion to purge everything.  I think the TD/DQ marriage was great in the beginning but has been a slow decline since 2016...like the rest of the team...funny how that works.

Spot on

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The biggest factor when evaluating TD is one about which we can really only speculate: how much does Blank control the front office decisions?  It's not really possible to evaluate his work without knowing how much his moves are made because Quinn/Blank demand them.  Blank certainly does it in public sometimes, declaring that Ryan, Julio, etc. will be "Falcons for life".  Whether he feels that way or not, it's idiotic to say that sort of thing in public during a contract negotiation.  For a billionaire businessman he sure shows a lack of business acumen sometimes.  Maybe he worries the fans want to hear that stuff, but if he really cared what most fans think or want Quinn would be watching this weekend's action at home.   

I wouldn't be surprised if TD is simply doing the best he can with what Quinn and Blank are asking of him.  But, if he truly thinks they're asking for bad decisions he should have the balls to say it and/or quit rather than making moves as GM that he knows he can't support.  That right there may be the best reason to see him gone.

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1 hour ago, MAD597 said:

Yea and the crap DL was a big part in us giving up big leads. It's been a consistent issue for us since he has been our GM.

It has been a problem since before he was our GM.

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3 hours ago, Akod2017 said:

 

 

TD came from the Patriots and has done the polar opposite of their strategy electing to nut over the guys he deems perfect and sacrificing depth.

This cuts to the meat of the matter.  It was central to the rift that developed between Mike Smith and TD - Smitty's draft/FA philosophy was always to build for sustained success, TD's was to try to hit home runs by spending draft capital freely (which, as noted, is the opposite of the Patriot way, and calls into question the significance of his role in New England).

As unpopular a take as this has been over the years, the decline and fall of the Falcons began with the drafting of Julio Jones, a pure TD move that killed offensive/defensive balance and ultimately gutted the depth chart.  They made a recovery in 2016, but then fell again with a draft philosophy that swung too heavily to the defensive side and featured too many bad picks.

Edited by JOEinPHX
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The issue then, @MAD597 is since TD has done badly as you (and some others) believe, then Quinn cannot be blamed for this. A coach is only as good as the players available. And I'm playing devil's advocate a bit, I accept. But there we go.

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3 minutes ago, JOEinPHX said:

This cuts to the meat of the matter.  It was central to the rift that developed between Mike Smith and TD - Smitty's draft/FA philosophy was always to build for sustained success, TD's was to try to hit home runs by spending draft capital freely (which, as noted, is the opposite of the Patriot way, and calls into question the significance of his role in New England).

As unpopular a take as this has been over the years, the decline and fall of the Falcons began with the drafting of Julio Jones, a pure TD move that killed offensive/defensive balance and ultimately gutted the depth chart.

Thank you.  And to forestall the inevitable foul cries, you have a lot better handle on this than nearly anyone on this board.  

We're watching it for the second time now.  I can see how Quinn gets fired.  I cannot see how TD gets off the hook this time.  It's his M.O. at this point.  Get close, then chase that one final piece while ignoring all the other, more important pieces.

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3 hours ago, Sun Tzu 7 said:

Here's your problem.

Quinn has the final say on the roster.

So ultimately he's responsible and if you've noticed he has taken that in several areas.

There's an old saying about giving someone enough rope to choke themselves.  That's what Quinn has and that's what he's done.

To be clear.  I'm not saying we keep TD.

I'm just saying everything is Quinns fault :) 

 

3 hours ago, FalconsIn2012 said:

This idea that Dan Quinn had full control of the roster is simply not accurate.  Thomas Dimitroff and Scott Pioli were responsible for the draft & free agency.  They made those decisions with heavy input from Quinn.

Quinn simply had final say on who would make the 53 man roster

It’s why they both are in untenable positions basically the off season is a collaborative approach to roster building.The results on the field are a direct correlation of what’s gone on off of it.

Ill be shocked if either survive it.

You can now have another mud slinging contest about at whose more to blame but in all essence both parties in charge have failed.

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THe narrative that TD has ignored the trenches is as  funny is as it is inaccurate

 

He has selected  either and Olineman to Dlineman with one of the first 2 picks  8  of his 12 drafts

The offensive line  has been solid to good for most of the time under TD.....  the times when they weren't were  mostly because of  of injuries rather than  strait bad play (2013 not withstanding,, even then there were major injuries)  That has continued. The offensive line this year has been hit and miss.... playing well one week  and then poorly the next... Some of that is  quality of opponents and some of that.... a big big part of that  is the fact we seem to have a new starting 5  every week.

I think Matthews is the only lineman not to miss any time  this year.... everyone else..... literally 4 of the other 5 have either missed a whole game or part of a game and is playing injuries ( Mack).

 

I know people hate the injury excuse  but when you look at the better offensive lines in football  there is one thing that usually is a common theme.....  you have either the same starting 5  or most of the starting 5 intact  for the majority of the year...that  continuity is a real thing.

Our  best years  on the line ( 8,10,12,16) have all been when we have had either the same starting 5 all 16 or when 4 of the 5 have started 16.

 

 

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3 minutes ago, chronob said:

The biggest factor when evaluating TD is one about which we can really only speculate: how much does Blank control the front office decisions?  It's not really possible to evaluate his work without knowing how much his moves are made because Quinn/Blank demand them.  Blank certainly does it in public sometimes, declaring that Ryan, Julio, etc. will be "Falcons for life".  Whether he feels that way or not, it's idiotic to say that sort of thing in public during a contract negotiation.  For a billionaire businessman he sure shows a lack of business acumen sometimes.  Maybe he worries the fans want to hear that stuff, but if he really cared what most fans think or want Quinn would be watching this weekend's action at home.   

I wouldn't be surprised if TD is simply doing the best he can with what Quinn and Blank are asking of him.  But, if he truly thinks they're asking for bad decisions he should have the balls to say it and/or quit rather than making moves as GM that he knows he can't support.  That right there may be the best reason to see him gone.

This is basically what it all boils down to. AB knows just how much input TD has in certain matters. AB is also aware of what he did/didn't support. If it turns out TD voiced concern about some of our decisions, then I think we might see him stay. If he honestly didn't like something he almost assuredly made it known to a certain extent. 0 chance the guy just plasters on a fake smile and nods on every decision.

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26 minutes ago, MSalmon said:

Spot on

It really peaked in 2016, didn't it?  They absolutely nailed that offseason and it took us from average to should have been superbowl winner almost instantly.

Free Agent Acquisitions/Extensions:

Alex Mack

Mohammed Sanu

Taylor Gabriel

Adrian Clayborn 

Courtney Upshaw

Dwight Freeney

Draft Picks:

Keanu Neal

Deion Jones

Austin Hooper

De'Vondre Campbell

Talk about hitting it out of the park.  It was such a high bar that there was no way they were going to come close to approaching it again, but man it has been a slippery slope down to where we are now.  Sad really.

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