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Summerhill

Why Dimitroff has to go

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I've historically been pretty neutral on Dimitroff. I've never piled on killing Dimitroff for random decisions here or there that did or didn't work out. All GM's make mistakes and sometimes you have a bad hand and have to try something which there are no good options. 

But I think I reached the point where he has go because of this season for one reason.  

The most important thing for any executive level manager to get right is you have to know which way the wind is blowing and if you're going to have a problem, you have to know ahead of time and not get blindsided. The NFL is the most competitive league on the planet. Every team has the same resources and rules are in place to bring down good teams and prop up bad teams. You're going to fail sometimes and that's ok but you have to plan for these failures so they don't bring you down too far and so you can more quickly bounce back. You have to know when to hold 'em and know when to fold 'em. 

Everything the Falcons did this season indicates they had no idea something like this was going to happen. They made numerous moves to maximize their chances of winning this season while detracting from their ability to win in 2020 and 2021. To do that and then have a season like this is inexcusable. 

Let's look at some of these moves and how they will inhibit the future: 

  • Ty Sambrailo: He's basically useless and will carry $5.7 million cap hit in 2020. To cut him after this season will leave $2 million in dead cap. 
  • James Carpenter: He hasn't been completely useless, but he's not a building block. He'll count $5.2 million against the cap in 2020 and to cut him after this season would leave $4 million in dead cap. 
  • Jamon Brown: He's still young so it's arguable whether he's a building block but he's basically JAG and will count $6.5 million against the cap in 2020 and would cost $8 million in dead cap to get rid of him. 
  • Ricardo Allen: Was scheduled to have cap hits of $6.5 million in 2020 and 2021. After re-structuring, will have cap hit of $7.3 million in 2020 and $8.3 million in 2021. 
  • Jake Matthews: Re-structure added roughly $1 million cap hit to every season left on his contract 2020-2023. 
  • Matt Ryan: Re-structure added roughly $2 million cap hit to every season left on his contract 2020-2023. 

Whatever rebuild or retooling the Falcons do in 2020 is going to be twice as difficult because of poorly conceived moves made to win big in 2019. If the Falcons literally did nothing this past offseason, they'd still be 1-7 or 0-8 but be in much better shape for making moves in 2020. 

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Here's your problem.

Quinn has the final say on the roster.

So ultimately he's responsible and if you've noticed he has taken that in several areas.

There's an old saying about giving someone enough rope to choke themselves.  That's what Quinn has and that's what he's done.

To be clear.  I'm not saying we keep TD.

I'm just saying everything is Quinns fault :) 

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10 minutes ago, Sun Tzu 7 said:

Here's your problem.

Quinn has the final say on the roster.

So ultimately he's responsible and if you've noticed he has taken that in several areas.

There's an old saying about giving someone enough rope to choke themselves.  That's what Quinn has and that's what he's done.

To be clear.  I'm not saying we keep TD.

I'm just saying everything is Quinns fault :) 

This idea that Dan Quinn had full control of the roster is simply not accurate.  Thomas Dimitroff and Scott Pioli were responsible for the draft & free agency.  They made those decisions with heavy input from Quinn.

Quinn simply had final say on who would make the 53 man roster

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To be specific, Thomas, as a general manager, will have final authority over free agents and draft picks, Scott [Pioli] now has responsibility for running free agency and the draft,'' Blank said. "Dan will have final authority over the 53- and 46-man rosters and practice squad.''

https://www.google.com/amp/s/abcnews.go.com/amp/Sports/dan-quinn-final-roster/story%3fid=28692295

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9 minutes ago, Sun Tzu 7 said:

Here's your problem.

Quinn has the final say on the roster.

So ultimately he's responsible and if you've noticed he has taken that in several areas.

There's an old saying about giving someone enough rope to choke themselves.  That's what Quinn has and that's what he's done.

To be clear.  I'm not saying we keep TD.

I'm just saying everything is Quinns fault :) 

It seemed Arthur Blank was pulling the strings on the 2019 off-season with the Lindstrom/McGary/Carpenter/Brown. Draft and Free Agency.  It was very odd.

Almost seems like Dimitroff/QUINN wanted to be done with the O-Line with Carp/Brown signings and re-signing Sambrailo and then Artie came in and said “not good enough”.

It was very late in draft process when Falcons went on the road to work out Lindstrom and McGary.

Everyone was convinced Falcons were taking a DT.  
 

Hmmmmm.....:o

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15 minutes ago, FalconsIn2012 said:

This idea that Dan Quinn had full control of the roster is simply not accurate.  Thomas Dimitroff and Scott Pioli were responsible for the draft & free agency.  They made those decisions with heavy input from Quinn.

Quinn simply had final say on who would make the 53 man roster

 

10 minutes ago, FalconsIn2012 said:

To be specific, Thomas, as a general manager, will have final authority over free agents and draft picks, Scott [Pioli] now has responsibility for running free agency and the draft,'' Blank said. "Dan will have final authority over the 53- and 46-man rosters and practice squad.''

https://www.google.com/amp/s/abcnews.go.com/amp/Sports/dan-quinn-final-roster/story%3fid=28692295

That...that's what he said...

24 minutes ago, Sun Tzu 7 said:

Here's your problem.

Quinn has the final say on the roster.

So ultimately he's responsible and if you've noticed he has taken that in several areas.

There's an old saying about giving someone enough rope to choke themselves.  That's what Quinn has and that's what he's done.

To be clear.  I'm not saying we keep TD.

I'm just saying everything is Quinns fault :) 

 

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I believe it was said on here that TD has traded up in the first round 6 times since he’s been here. Pretty sure Quinn wasn’t around for all of those...

 

TD came from the Patriots and has done the polar opposite of their strategy electing to nut over the guys he deems perfect and sacrificing depth. This started long before Quinn. The SEC is in his backyard and he only takes LSU guys. 

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14 minutes ago, FalconsIn2012 said:

This idea that Dan Quinn had full control of the roster is simply not accurate.  Thomas Dimitroff and Scott Pioli were responsible for the draft & free agency.  They made those decisions with heavy input from Quinn.

Quinn simply had final say on who would make the 53 man roster

To be clear I'm not saying TD should stay.

I just don't agree with the narrative that the personnel issues are more on him than DQ.

My main argument is that at one point these guys could play.  Now guys are screwing up all over the place.  Kazee was making plays as a safety but he looks lost as a nickel corner.

Quinn was getting all the credit when Debo and Campbell were making plays and Beasley was leading the league in sacks.  Now several years into the system they've massively regressed and we're saying that's more on the GM than coaching?  I just don't agree.

Again,  not saying TD should be safe.  I'm just saying you can't blame TD without blaming Quinn as well

 

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3 minutes ago, Akod2017 said:

I believe it was said on here that TD has traded up in the first round 6 times since he’s been here. Pretty sure Quinn wasn’t around for all of those...

 

TD came from the Patriots and has done the polar opposite of their strategy electing to nut over the guys he deems perfect and sacrificing depth. This started long before Quinn. The SEC is in his backyard and he only takes LSU guys. 

But the problem is the Patriots weren’t getting trounced in dramatic fashion and never placed in desperate situations. The Patriots was an easy lure for aging veterans who were in it for championship glory. I’m not even going to mention coaching

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1 minute ago, FalconsIn2012 said:

I think he was saying Quinn has control over which FA are signed, which players are drafted and who makes the final 53.  

Ah, I didn't read that but I guess.

Question...you in favor of a Quinn and TD purge?  Just Quinn?   Just TD?

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23 minutes ago, g-dawg said:

It seemed Arthur Blank was pulling the strings on the 2019 off-season with the Lindstrom/McGary/Carpenter/Brown. Draft and Free Agency.  It was very odd.

Almost seems like Dimitroff/QUINN wanted to be done with the O-Line with Carp/Brown signings and re-signing Sambrailo and then Artie came in and said “not good enough”.

It was very late in draft process when Falcons went on the road to work out Lindstrom and McGary.

Everyone was convinced Falcons were taking a DT.  
 

Hmmmmm.....:o

2018 draft.  I think we agree that Dline was a HUGE priority since they let Poe, Claiborn, and Upshaw leave.  Imagine my surprise when they took a WR and CB as the first two picks.

I always thought it was odd the defensive coach went offense when there was arguably a bigger need on the defensive line 2 years in a row.

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10 minutes ago, athell said:

Ah, I didn't read that but I guess.

Question...you in favor of a Quinn and TD purge?  Just Quinn?   Just TD?

It’s so bad right now that I think Quinn has to go and if a very solid Asst GM is available (Schlenk when he was with Warriors is a good example), you have to fire TD as well..

I don’t think either are as bad as they appear at the moment.  In fact, I believe both will be successful in the same role with a different team.  But the message has clearly gone stale and the once clear vision has turned blurry.  
 

They have both, along with Smitty, done so much to rewrite the narrative of this downtrodden franchise, but it’s time for a fresh start across-the-board. I wouldn’t keep anybody except Ulbricht

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It is BS to say that TD has no say on the roster, he is GM, he hires the scouts that give everyone in the org information of players to be picked in the draft and picked up in FA. Thier is no way possible that TD is not involved in shaping this roster in one way shape or form. so you can stop right their tying to absolve him from this mess. He is GM the buck stops with him.

It's also no coincidence that since TD has been GM our OLs and DLs have suffered. We see the same patterns in our trenches since TD has been GM, our OL and DL are usually under weight, weak and get pushed around.  We give up to many sacks and are never able to sack the QB. TD has whiffed on almost all of his OL and DL picks, Matthews and Grady have been the RARE exception the past 11 years. He has whiffed on OL and DL FA's, Alex Mack the rare exception to that.

TD is simply not capable of evaluating OL and DL talent.

Multiple Head Coaches, OC's, DC's and the one constant has been TD and the fact our trenches almost always suck. That is no coincidence

TD needs to be fired for that alone.

We need a GM that can consistently build the roster from the inside out, 

 

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36 minutes ago, g-dawg said:

It seemed Arthur Blank was pulling the strings on the 2019 off-season with the Lindstrom/McGary/Carpenter/Brown. Draft and Free Agency.  It was very odd.

Almost seems like Dimitroff/QUINN wanted to be done with the O-Line with Carp/Brown signings and re-signing Sambrailo and then Artie came in and said “not good enough”.

It was very late in draft process when Falcons went on the road to work out Lindstrom and McGary.

Everyone was convinced Falcons were taking a DT.  
 

Hmmmmm.....:o

I doubt Blank has that much say in the matter. What it did feel like was that instead of making calculated offensive line selections based on a new scheme, we decided to “throw all the pasta on the wall” and see what stuck. And surprise, none of it did. 

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5 minutes ago, FalconsIn2012 said:

It’s so bad right now that I think Quinn has to go and if a very solid Asst GM is available (Schlenk when he was with Warriors is a good example), you have to fire TD as well..

I don’t think either are as bad as they appear at the moment.  In fact, I believe both will be successful in the same role with a different team.  But the message has clearly gone stale and the once clear vision has turned blurry.  
 

They have both, along with Smitty, done so much to rewrite the narrative of this downtrodden franchise, but it’s time for a fresh start across-the-board. I wouldn’t keep anybody except Ulbricht

Yea...I am of the opinion to purge everything.  I think the TD/DQ marriage was great in the beginning but has been a slow decline since 2016...like the rest of the team...funny how that works.

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2 minutes ago, MAD597 said:

It is BS to say that TD has no say on the roster, he is GM, he hires the scouts that give everyone in the org information of players to be picked in the draft and picked up in FA. Thier is no way possible that TD is not involved in shaping this roster in one way shape or form. so you can stop right their tying to absolve him from this mess. He is GM the buck stops with him.

It's also no coincidence that since TD has been GM our OLs and DLs have suffered. We see the same patterns in our trenches since TD has been GM, our OL and DL are usually under weight, weak and get pushed around.  We give up to many sacks TD has whiffed on almost all of his OL and DL picks, Matthews and Grady have been the RARE exception the past 11 years. He has whiffed on OL and DL FA's, Alex Mack the rare exception to that.

TD is simply not capable of evaluating OL and DL talent.

Multiple Head Coaches, OC's, DC's and the one constant has been TD and the fact our trenches almost always suck. That is no coincidence

TD needs to be fired for that alone.

We need a GM that can consistently build the roster from the inside out, 

 

The drafting of Ryan gave TD a lot of clout these past few years. To his benefit he as been able to find great specialty players for us. I’ve always approached TD pragmatically and rationally. Given the state this franchise has been in the past two years, it’s safe to say his model of doing things has become antiquated and out dated. This organization needs a fresh perspective, from the bottom to the top. 

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10 minutes ago, MAD597 said:

It is BS to say that TD has no say on the roster, he is GM, he hires the scouts that give everyone in the org information of players to be picked in the draft and picked up in FA. Thier is no way possible that TD is not involved in shaping this roster in one way shape or form. so you can stop right their tying to absolve him from this mess. He is GM the buck stops with him.

It's also no coincidence that since TD has been GM our OLs and DLs have suffered. We see the same patterns in our trenches since TD has been GM, our OL and DL are usually under weight, weak and get pushed around.  We give up to many sacks TD has whiffed on almost all of his OL and DL picks, Matthews and Grady have been the RARE exception the past 11 years. He has whiffed on OL and DL FA's, Alex Mack the rare exception to that.

TD is simply not capable of evaluating OL and DL talent.

Multiple Head Coaches, OC's, DC's and the one constant has been TD and the fact our trenches almost always suck. That is no coincidence

TD needs to be fired for that alone.

We need a GM that can consistently build the roster from the inside out, 

 

TD has also built two teams that should have won super bowls if we had coaches capable of simple time management. I don't think our offensive and defensive lines have been as bad as you claim or That couldn't possibly be true 

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1 minute ago, FalconFanSince1969 said:

TD has also built two teams that should have won super bowls if we had coaches capable of simple time management. I don't think our offensive and defensive lines have been as bad as you claim or That couldn't possibly be true 

While true, I do feel like the trenches have been pretty sub-par overall throughout the TD era.  Matt has been behind some wretched lines much more often than he has been behind above average lines and our dline has been pretty garbage for a while wouldn't you say?

Our last great edge rusher was Abe...to be fair to TD, he did hit on the Macks, Leivitres, Matthews (despite people hating him here) of the world...but overall I would agree that our trenches have not been up to snuff during TD's tenure.

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18 minutes ago, FalconFanSince1969 said:

TD has also built two teams that should have won super bowls if we had coaches capable of simple time management. I don't think our offensive and defensive lines have been as bad as you claim or That couldn't possibly be true 

Those teams were in that position DESPITE over a decade of OL and DL issues not because of them. ALSO BOTH collapses which prevented a SB were in large part due to Defensive breakdowns late in the game by a gassed and under weight defense that wore down over the game by better more powerful OL's.

We have the same issues giving up leads late even with different HC's, OC's and DC's. TD has been the constant front office presence between the Smith and Quinn regime.

Under weight weak trenches will give up leads late in the game. That is a TD trademark no matter who our coaches are

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21 minutes ago, FalconFanSince1969 said:

TD has also built two teams that should have won super bowls if we had coaches capable of simple time management. I don't think our offensive and defensive lines have been as bad as you claim or That couldn't possibly be true 

I totally agree with your first statement which is why I blame Quinn now; but it does not necessarily follow that the lines haven't been sub-par

 

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One minute Deion Jones looks like one of the best LBs in the game. The next he looks confused and unsure out there. A few years ago he was the prototype MLB. Now he is lost in the mess and being called out for his lack of leadership. 

Is this a result of his draft position? His recent extension? The lack of accountability by his coaches? A regression of skill? A bad season? Injury? 

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44 minutes ago, FalconFanSince1969 said:

TD has also built two teams that should have won super bowls if we had coaches capable of simple time management. I don't think our offensive and defensive lines have been as bad as you claim or That couldn't possibly be true 

If we are being 100% honest - 2012 when the Raven won the SuperBowl w/ Joe Flacco over Niners/Kaepernick - was probably the worst year of NFL Football in the last 15 years - that was a year we could have won - but be honest, that team wasn't that good - especially on defense.

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