The Don™

Julio after Rams Game

110 posts in this topic

1 minute ago, JDaveG said:

Conversely, I'm not saying we keep Quinn.  Not by a long shot.

My point, though, is that decisions seem to come from on high that disrupt the process of building the team and preparing them to play.  Mike Smith wrote about it at length in his book.  He blames himself, but it is clear as day that when we get close, Mr. Blank steps in and imposes his will.  Go get this.  Go get that. Expectations are high.  I want my ring.

I mean, look at 2012, 2013 and 2014.  Look what moves they made.  Look what they did to "improve" the team.  Look at the talk about getting us back so we can finally win one.

Then look at 2016, 2017, 2018 and 2019.  Tell me there aren't parallels.

Oh trust me I’ve seen them.

Smittys fault was also loyalty.

After the Green Bay massacre in 2010 BVG should have been fired on the spot.

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1 hour ago, Falcanuck said:

Huh? Motivation is a coaching issue. Whether Julio wants to admit it or not. 

And Quinn doesn't just ask for players purely based off of TD's recco.... that's just asinine. A lot of people here believe TD doesn't even make the picks anymore and that it was entirely Quinn. 

No motivation is not a coaching issue at this level.

Climbing up the corporate ladder for almost 15 years and having to depend on people who have the need for external motivation is the worst team experience I've had. 

The best is having teammates and peers with internal motivation and then you come together for a common goal. 

I promise you that motivation is not a coaching issue. Can't cop out lazy players like that.

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24 minutes ago, The Don™ said:

Add Cominsky in there. He got around 20 or so snaps. Taking snaps from Beasley from the LDE spot. 

DQ is trying...but it's also his fault to let it get too far with some players like Ish, Campbell, and Beasley. 

I think Campbell doesn't get enough flack around here. He was very raw coming out and showed promise for a while. However, it seems like he's coasted since then. I don't remember the last time he's made an impactful play.

Yep. But like I said, if that Eagles game never happened, I think changes would have been made earlier. They looked legit, like how we all thought they would. Everybody played great. It was a chase to get that kind of performance back. 

I've been at Campbell's neck for a while here. Since 2017 frankly. He's clueless out there. He's one of the ones I was worried would get comfortable after going to the SB as a rookie. Pretty much what's happened. He's not developed anywhere. 

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1 hour ago, Falcanuck said:

Huh? Motivation is a coaching issue. Whether Julio wants to admit it or not. 

And Quinn doesn't just ask for players purely based off of TD's recco.... that's just asinine. A lot of people here believe TD doesn't even make the picks anymore and that it was entirely Quinn. 

Partly yes, but mostly no.


At the Pro level, motivation is a professional personal issue, not coaching like it is in high school and kind in College. 
 

This is the main reason Cheerleader type coaches don’t make it in the Pros.

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In the old days these “rotten eggs” would have been crushed by their peers.

why in the you know what would the Falcons pay Vic??? They had to have seen he was not all in. 
 

Let him go play round ball. Somebody should have shook the **** out of Weasley!!!!

Edited by SoldMySoul
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1 minute ago, Ezekiel 25:17 said:

Partly yes but mostly no.


At the Pro level, motivation is a professional issue, not coaching like it is in high school and kind in College. 
 

This is the main reason Cheerleader type coaches don’t make it in the Pros.

Exactly!!

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18 minutes ago, Sun Tzu 7 said:

he problem, and you've hit it on the head, is it isn't the depth guys who are costing us games.  I can forgive Oliver and McGary's mistakes.  But when Alex Mack, Jake Matthews, Matt Ryan, Desmond Trufant, Vic Beasley, Devondre Campbell and too many others to list are making the same stupid mistakes and costing this team with low effort play?  That ain't on the coach.  Those players are going to get a decent man fired.

For the most part these players were on a team build and coached by DQ that played in the SB LI. There is NO true leader amongst the players. Julio speaks up sometimes. The NFC championship in 2012 yielded similar results. ... . It's simply time to clean house or face an empty house.

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1 minute ago, vel said:

Yep. But like I said, if that Eagles game never happened, I think changes would have been made earlier. They looked legit, like how we all thought they would. Everybody played great. It was a chase to get that kind of performance back. 

I've been at Campbell's neck for a while here. Since 2017 frankly. He's clueless out there. He's one of the ones I was worried would get comfortable after going to the SB as a rookie. Pretty much what's happened. He's not developed anywhere. 

Players got comfortable. It's been a theme with this team since the SB loss. They think things are just going to handed to them. See Duke Riley dance video on Falcons twitter feed after Eagles win. That should be a telling sign right there.

It only takes a select handful of players to bring a whole team down. I'm in management. It only takes one or two people to bring morale and your culture down.

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2 minutes ago, Sun Tzu 7 said:

Oh trust me I’ve seen them.

Smittys fault was also loyalty.

After the Green Bay massacre in 2010 BVG should have been fired on the spot.

But think about this -- after the Green Bay massacre in 2010, we moved up in the draft to take a stud WR.

Our draft class after that debacle was Julio, Akeem Dent, Quizz, Bosher and Andrew Jackson.  One of those players plays defense.

In 2013, our draft class was Trufant, Alford, Malliciah Goodman, Toilolo, Maponga, Ish, Zeke Motta and Sean Renfree.  Lots of defensive players there, but we had to double dip at corner why?  Because we let Grimes walk in FA and we saw the writing on the wall with the end of Asante's career.  Worse, we pushed to re-sign Gonzalez and signed Steven Jackson in Free Agency.  Why?  Because that was the ticket to "getting back."  We needed pass rush, but hey, Maponga and Goodman, and Massaquoi, would have to do.  Oh, we got Osi, whose best days were behind him.  And Cliff Matthews was on the roster for some reason.  But man, a TE who wanted to retire and didn't want to go to training camp, plus a RB on the wrong side of a decade plus career?  What's pass rush when you have THAT kind of firepower, amirite?

"Getting back" is the enemy of "getting better."  But we keep falling for it.  Because our owner is desperate.

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6 minutes ago, The Don™ said:

Players got comfortable. It's been a theme with this team since the SB loss. They think things are just going to handed to them. See Duke Riley dance video on Falcons twitter feed after Eagles win. That should be a telling sign right there.

It only takes a select handful of players to bring a whole team down. I'm in management. It only takes one or two people to bring morale and your culture down.

You fully get it with the bolded. And people blame the management for hiring them right? Lol. It's not cut and dry. 

Julio, Grady, and Rico are still locked in. So is Matt. But they can't speak for everybody. You're betting on the measure of a man and it's hard. 

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5 minutes ago, JDaveG said:

But think about this -- after the Green Bay massacre in 2010, we moved up in the draft to take a stud WR.

Our draft class after that debacle was Julio, Akeem Dent, Quizz, Bosher and Andrew Jackson.  One of those players plays defense.

In 2013, our draft class was Trufant, Alford, Malliciah Goodman, Toilolo, Maponga, Ish, Zeke Motta and Sean Renfree.  Lots of defensive players there, but we had to double dip at corner why?  Because we let Grimes walk in FA and we saw the writing on the wall with the end of Asante's career.  Worse, we pushed to re-sign Gonzalez and signed Steven Jackson in Free Agency.  Why?  Because that was the ticket to "getting back."  We needed pass rush, but hey, Maponga and Goodman, and Massaquoi, would have to do.  Oh, we got Osi, whose best days were behind him.  And Cliff Matthews was on the roster for some reason.  But man, a TE who wanted to retire and didn't want to go to training camp, plus a RB on the wrong side of a decade plus career?  What's pass rush when you have THAT kind of firepower, amirite?

"Getting back" is the enemy of "getting better."  But we keep falling for it.  Because our owner is desperate.

 

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11 minutes ago, JDaveG said:

But think about this -- after the Green Bay massacre in 2010, we moved up in the draft to take a stud WR.

Our draft class after that debacle was Julio, Akeem Dent, Quizz, Bosher and Andrew Jackson.  One of those players plays defense.

In 2013, our draft class was Trufant, Alford, Malliciah Goodman, Toilolo, Maponga, Ish, Zeke Motta and Sean Renfree.  Lots of defensive players there, but we had to double dip at corner why?  Because we let Grimes walk in FA and we saw the writing on the wall with the end of Asante's career.  Worse, we pushed to re-sign Gonzalez and signed Steven Jackson in Free Agency.  Why?  Because that was the ticket to "getting back."  We needed pass rush, but hey, Maponga and Goodman, and Massaquoi, would have to do.  Oh, we got Osi, whose best days were behind him.  And Cliff Matthews was on the roster for some reason.  But man, a TE who wanted to retire and didn't want to go to training camp, plus a RB on the wrong side of a decade plus career?  What's pass rush when you have THAT kind of firepower, amirite?

"Getting back" is the enemy of "getting better."  But we keep falling for it.  Because our owner is desperate.

1.  The double dipping at corner was actually one of TDs better moves.  It got ahead of the problem before it became a problem and for a good 3-4 years the Falcons were set at both corner spots.

2.  Other than that I don't disagree with your assessments but you are forgetting one significant when talking about the failure of the 2013 team.  Replacing 3 out of 5 starters on the oline... the entire right half.  And the worst part is that they just gave the positions away instead of letting the vets compete.

But like you said... Lots of similarities between the last 2 Smitty seasons and Quinn ones.  Taking a WR when maybe you needed help on defense, (pass rush).  Replacing 3 out of 5 guys on the oline in one offseason.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

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11 minutes ago, JDaveG said:

But think about this -- after the Green Bay massacre in 2010, we moved up in the draft to take a stud WR.

Our draft class after that debacle was Julio, Akeem Dent, Quizz, Bosher and Andrew Jackson.  One of those players plays defense.

In 2013, our draft class was Trufant, Alford, Malliciah Goodman, Toilolo, Maponga, Ish, Zeke Motta and Sean Renfree.  Lots of defensive players there, but we had to double dip at corner why?  Because we let Grimes walk in FA and we saw the writing on the wall with the end of Asante's career.  Worse, we pushed to re-sign Gonzalez and signed Steven Jackson in Free Agency.  Why?  Because that was the ticket to "getting back."  We needed pass rush, but hey, Maponga and Goodman, and Massaquoi, would have to do.  Oh, we got Osi, whose best days were behind him.  And Cliff Matthews was on the roster for some reason.  But man, a TE who wanted to retire and didn't want to go to training camp, plus a RB on the wrong side of a decade plus career?  What's pass rush when you have THAT kind of firepower, amirite?

"Getting back" is the enemy of "getting better."  But we keep falling for it.  Because our owner is desperate.

That was the ultimate downfall of Smitty as well. Players just wanted to get back to the playoffs and forgot how they got there in the first place. It was about the outcome and not the process. He admits so in his book. 

Same thing has happened to Quinn's Falcons. 

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It’s not up to Jones, Allen & Jarrett to speak up although their leadership is important.

DQ should be looking straight into the eyes of the players in question!

Each & every one of these players who doesn’t possess the heart & the necessary fire inside them to compete at all costs needs to be identified by name & be subjugated as the first ones to be eliminated from our team.  
 

You either have it or you don’t.  It cannot be coached.  Drive, desire, toughness, competitiveness, character, etc.  When the going gets tough, the tough get going isn’t just a cliche.

These are not football players.  They are useless to a team & must be moved or parlayed into trades or something beneficial if possible.  The same goes for players who don’t possess the aptitude to catch on & understand their assignments.

We now need coaches who demand people do their jobs or be scrutinized.  The expectations should be set high & if we hire the right coaches, the respect will soon be earned.  

 

 

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8 minutes ago, Sun Tzu 7 said:

1.  The double dipping at corner was actually one of TDs better moves.  It got ahead of the problem before it became a problem and for a good 3-4 years the Falcons were set at both corner spots.

Here is the only reason I disagree.  We cut Grimes.  A tough, hard working, bootstrap player.  Exactly the kind of guy you want on your team.  We cut him because he got hurt.

We created a hole and then had no choice but to fill it.  We didn't see anything coming (except Samuel, and that was even too little, too late).  We made a hole and then traded up to ensure we filled it in the draft.  It's everything I hate about Dimitroff's team building approach.

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16 minutes ago, JDaveG said:

Here is the only reason I disagree.  We cut Grimes.  A tough, hard working, bootstrap player.  Exactly the kind of guy you want on your team.  We cut him because he got hurt.

We created a hole and then had no choice but to fill it.  We didn't see anything coming (except Samuel, and that was even too little, too late).  We made a hole and then traded up to ensure we filled it in the draft.  It's everything I hate about Dimitroff's team building approach.

Couple of things here

1.  Grimes wasn't cut.  He was a free agent and they didn't resign.

2.  They didn't resign him because of several things.  Coming off an injury and he wanted big money.  There was also a distraction issues starting to happen.

3.  They had Asante Samuel and Dante Robinson on the roster and both had played well in 2012.

I think it was one of the few times that TD got ahead of the problem before it became a problem... unlike pass rush and oline.  Do you remember ever saying "oh my goodness we have a problem at corner, what are we going to do?"  Like we are now?

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1 hour ago, vel said:

This, again, is why I struggle with DQ being the sole issue. There are too many half a**ed players in the locker room right now. Yes, he's in charge of the 53, but I doubt DQ was prepared for players to not be locked in to begin the season. I mean look at the Eagles game. That's a prime example of the team we all expected to see. Physical on defense. Tough to stop on offense. Turnovers. Sacks. Pressure. It was all there. Then it hasn't been a single game since then. 

Quinn didn’t forget how to coach football.  The players are simply not responding to his message.  Through no fault of his own a reboot is needed

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2 minutes ago, FalconsIn2012 said:

Quinn didn’t forget how to coach football.  The players are simply not responding to his message.  Through no fault of his own a reboot is needed

Quinn never knew how to coach. Cant forget something you never knew.

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I"d really like to know black and white who isn"t giving it their all.

Vic has always been quiet but is generally seen as a good guy, and not a bad team mate. Maybe others resent his money. I believe him when he says he feels he's let Q down. I don't get the training away from FB in the offseason, but hey. 

There have got to be some dudes we don't expect who are bringing this team down, or coaches. Every position group needs a leader of some sort.

  • QB - No issue there
  • RB - big issue, Free is a quiet guy and is also stinking it up. He ain't saying anything to other guys, that's not him
  • WR - close knit group, clear to see. Will miss 12. But the whole team will. I'm not worried about them. Any guy that sees 11 at practice knows they have to work they *** off to see any ball thrown their way. We good there.
  • OL - big issue, and one that needs sorting. For the sake of the rookies. Lindstrom and McGary at least have the right attitudes. I think i'm about done with Jake Matthews if he's half azzing... if he's one of the guys working, he can stay for and play out the contract. But I don't know what he's like, another stupidly quiet guy for being a vet now. Mack hasn't said a word.
  • DL - Grady is great, but where the heck is everyone else. Grady, call some guys out, at least privately (I'm sure he has). Thank the lord Cominksy loves football. Shame we can't transplant his brain into Vic's body type. That combo gets 20 sacks and leads others.
  • MLB - big issue. 45 is great but he's no vocal leader
  • OLB - GTFO
  • SS - Losing Keke was a tone setter. He played by example. He was clearly emotionally destroyed. I doubt he's giving speeches right now.
  • FS - God love you Rico.... 

 

WHERE ARE OUR VOCAL LEADERS?

 

I'm a massive #2, #11 and #22 fan, but who is our Ray Lewis, our Dawkins, our Lawyer Milloy?? Or if not a player, who is our hot head coach firing people up? Dirk? Mike Mularkey? Come on now...

Our D is soft as ish, and no one is doing anything about it. Coaching or players. No one is innocent. On O, we just need to clean house at RB and fix the Line for the 292nd time...

 

 

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6 minutes ago, Flying Falcon said:

Quinn never knew how to coach. Cant forget something you never knew.

I don’t believe that.

Last time he called our defense from Week 12 - SB 51 we were an attacking Cover 1 defense that held teams literally scoreless in nearly every single first half.  Games were simply over at halftime...much of that due to the defense giving our offense extra possessions.  We swarmed and created turnovers.  That was on him and MM

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Bad schemes.

Who looks at what Koetter is running and thinks, "Boy what a great and modern offense. I mean look at the quarterback getting destroyed, why would we want to adjust to quicker reads and a running game?"

Or on defense..."Who needs to pressure the QB. We have 3 guys doing it and that always works right?"

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5 minutes ago, FalconsIn2012 said:

I don’t believe that.

Last time he called our defense from Week 12 - SB 51 we were an attacking Cover 1 defense that held teams literally scoreless in nearly every single first half. We swarmed and created turnovers.  That was on him and MM

Smoke and mirrors. Cheerleaders motivate only for a spell. If I'm a "Life Coach" does that mean I know the hidden truth to being successful in Life or I just know how to motivate you through a situation?

Quinn should be a Life Coach.  He'll succeed there, cause once teams figured his "Cover 1" out. He was done.

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Just now, Flying Falcon said:

Smoke and mirrors. Cheerleaders motivate only for a spell. If I'm a "Life Coach" does that mean I know the hidden truth to being successful in Life or I just know how to motivate you through a situation?

Quinn should be a Life Coach.  He'll succeed there.

Between Week 12 of 2016 and Week 2 of 2018 we allowed 19 ppg

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