The Don™

Julio after Rams Game

110 posts in this topic

That's great that Quinn has veteran players speaking well of him. However, it is up to Quinn to identify who is not up for the task especially on defense and to either teach or bench. Why is it that certain guys are not getting benched. I know Oliver is now splitting time, but why is Takk not splitting time with someone. I know you can only dress 53 guys, but you have to make some changes somewhere because everything going on now is not even close to working out. Sit Beasley and let someone else start in his position. Every week, I notice that the D does not seem to be communicating and moving into a position to stop the big plays from constantly happening. Where are Rico and Deion Jones involvement in these situations? Every receiver is open against this Falcons D, how is that? The progress and fundamentals are always lost on the defensive unit and that's on Quinn.

Flying Falcon likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, ya_boi_j said:

Jones, according to one source, became emotional and said “Everything matters, every play matters… this is bigger than just one person. Q can’t do more for us.”

In the words of @Knight of God, I felt that

 

Falcons owner Arthur Blank was in the locker room when Jones spoke up and supported his embattled head coach.

Jones, Ricardo Allen and Grady Jarrett, all respected veterans and team leaders, have visited with the media following every game this season. All three were absent in the locker room following the 37-10 loss to the Rams. One source told Klein they believed the three were tired of answering for questions for other teammates who are “not all in.”

I wouldn't want to either

This, again, is why I struggle with DQ being the sole issue. There are too many half a**ed players in the locker room right now. Yes, he's in charge of the 53, but I doubt DQ was prepared for players to not be locked in to begin the season. I mean look at the Eagles game. That's a prime example of the team we all expected to see. Physical on defense. Tough to stop on offense. Turnovers. Sacks. Pressure. It was all there. Then it hasn't been a single game since then. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, vel said:

This, again, is why I struggle with DQ being the sole issue. There are too many half a**ed players in the locker room right now. Yes, he's in charge of the 53, but I doubt DQ was prepared for players to not be locked in to begin the season. I mean look at the Eagles game. That's a prime example of the team we all expected to see. Physical on defense. Tough to stop on offense. Turnovers. Sacks. Pressure. It was all there. Then it hasn't been a single game since then. 

And you have players that's just hanging out. Ex. Trufant. I'm bet a bean to a dollar that he's not as hurt as what's being reported.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, vel said:

This, again, is why I struggle with DQ being the sole issue. There are too many half a**ed players in the locker room right now. Yes, he's in charge of the 53, but I doubt DQ was prepared for players to not be locked in to begin the season. I mean look at the Eagles game. That's a prime example of the team we all expected to see. Physical on defense. Tough to stop on offense. Turnovers. Sacks. Pressure. It was all there. Then it hasn't been a single game since then. 

Man I've been calling for the finger to be pointed at the players since Sark was around and people were scapegoating him. Execution is the key to playing sports, period. If I'm the coach and I call a play for you to run a 5 yard out and you run a 5 yard in, what's going to happen? Playcalls can be questioned but everything should not fall on the shoulders of the coaches. I'll blame coach for issues with the depth chart but I can't blame him for the players not doing what they're supposed to do

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, ya_boi_j said:

Man I've been calling for the finger to be pointed at the players since Sark was around and people were scapegoating him. Execution is the key to playing sports, period. If I'm the coach and I call a play for you to run a 5 yard out and you run a 5 yard in, what's going to happen? Playcalls can be questioned but everything should not fall on the shoulders of the coaches. I'll blame coach for issues with the depth chart but I can't blame him for the players not doing what they're supposed to do

But what if they keep doing it?  Over and over?

Flying Falcon likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, ya_boi_j said:

Man I've been calling for the finger to be pointed at the players since Sark was around and people were scapegoating him. Execution is the key to playing sports, period. If I'm the coach and I call a play for you to run a 5 yard out and you run a 5 yard in, what's going to happen? Playcalls can be questioned but everything should not fall on the shoulders of the coaches. I'll blame coach for issues with the depth chart but I can't blame him for the players not doing what they're supposed to do

Pretty much. DQ has been slow to bench guys but I get it. They've shown before they can do it. As recently as week two. What's the issue? Especially if they have good weeks of practice, if they fully understand the game plans, etc. The mistakes Oliver is making, for example, aren't coached. If he shows he's understood the rules of the scheme, which he showed as a rookie just last year and must be showing in practice, you can't plan for his mistakes on Sundays. Your WRs can't beat single coverage? Really? They just did it routinely last year. 

It's a bunch of stuff that is player issue. That's why I say even Belichick would be 1-6 with the way this group is playing. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, ya_boi_j said:

Man I've been calling for the finger to be pointed at the players since Sark was around and people were scapegoating him. Execution is the key to playing sports, period. If I'm the coach and I call a play for you to run a 5 yard out and you run a 5 yard in, what's going to happen? Playcalls can be questioned but everything should not fall on the shoulders of the coaches. I'll blame coach for issues with the depth chart but I can't blame him for the players not doing what they're supposed to do

See, this is where I am too.  I'm not saying Quinn bears zero responsibility.  Far from it.  I expect him to be fired.  This team, bad as it is, ought to be playing better than this.

But the truth is, a new coach won't turn soft players into bad ***ses.  He might for a season, maybe 2.  But you can't fix lazy.  You can't fix low effort and low energy.  You can't fix guys who coast.  Quinn's mistake is in not recognizing those players and shipping them out.  And I'm not 100% convinced he's even behind all that, given that our owner goes to the press about getting deals done for people.

The problem, and you've hit it on the head, is it isn't the depth guys who are costing us games.  I can forgive Oliver and McGary's mistakes.  But when Alex Mack, Jake Matthews, Matt Ryan, Desmond Trufant, Vic Beasley, Devondre Campbell and too many others to list are making the same stupid mistakes and costing this team with low effort play?  That ain't on the coach.  Those players are going to get a decent man fired.

If we fire Quinn and TD stays, I'm not going to be happy.  If we fire TD and Quinn stays?  I might be able to live with that for a season or two.  The coach isn't performing well.  But he's also hamstrung.  The culture of this team is sick unto death.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 minutes ago, Francis York Morgan said:

I mean, I agree that Quinn is getting fired, and after this season, that's the right move. You don't recover from a season like this. But if we keep TD, I don't see anything changing with this team long term. Just being honest here. We literally haven't had a tough team since he got here. The closest we got was with his early days and Mike Turner.

Oh I think TD may need to go as well.

The way the dline was neglected over the last 2 coaching staffs will be his downfall.

And I disagree about not having a tough team.  Falcons were knocking heads in 2016.

That's the thing that's hard to reconcile about TD.  There was toughness at one point.  These guys could play at one point.  Now all of a sudden they can't play?  Effort and motivation those are what coaches are responsible for.

TDs job is to find you guys that can play.  It's up to the coaches to get the most out of them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, vel said:

Pretty much. DQ has been slow to bench guys but I get it. They've shown before they can do it. As recently as week two. What's the issue? Especially if they have good weeks of practice, if they fully understand the game plans, etc. The mistakes Oliver is making, for example, aren't coached. If he shows he's understood the rules of the scheme, which he showed as a rookie just last year and must be showing in practice, you can't plan for his mistakes on Sundays. Your WRs can't beat single coverage? Really? They just did it routinely last year. 

It's a bunch of stuff that is player issue. That's why I say even Belichick would be 1-6 with the way this group is playing. 

 

2 minutes ago, JDaveG said:

See, this is where I am too.  I'm not saying Quinn bears zero responsibility.  Far from it.  I expect him to be fired.  This team, bad as it is, ought to be playing better than this.

But the truth is, a new coach won't turn soft players into bad ***ses.  He might for a season, maybe 2.  But you can't fix lazy.  You can't fix low effort and low energy.  You can't fix guys who coast.  Quinn's mistake is in not recognizing those players and shipping them out.  And I'm not 100% convinced he's even behind all that, given that our owner goes to the press about getting deals done for people.

The problem, and you've hit it on the head, is it isn't the depth guys who are costing us games.  I can forgive Oliver and McGary's mistakes.  But when Alex Mack, Jake Matthews, Matt Ryan, Desmond Trufant, Vic Beasley, Devondre Campbell and too many others to list are making the same stupid mistakes and costing this team with low effort play?  That ain't on the coach.  Those players are going to get a decent man fired.

If we fire Quinn and TD stays, I'm not going to be happy.  If we fire TD and Quinn stays?  I might be able to live with that for a season or two.  The coach isn't performing well.  But he's also hamstrung.  The culture of this team is sick unto death.

Agreed on both. It's easy for fans that only want to find a reason to complain to point to Quinn and say it's his fault but that isn't the full reality. They can say they haven't given up on him all they want but the actions speak so much louder than their words

vel, Flying Falcon and JDaveG like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, vafalconfan said:

Quinn said early on that all of the great teams he has been apart in his career were champions not because of coaches, but because of veteran players calling out other players and demanding accountability..that has been sorely missing the past few years and this year seems nonexistent. 

Fact. And obviously, if you don't have that guy in the locker room who makes that accountability happen, you get the results the Falcons are consistently getting, which is lackluster mediocrity.

Flying Falcon and JDaveG like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, ya_boi_j said:

That's not on coaching man. The only thing he can do is bench players. 

That's my point.

In any job if you have someone that isn't performing to the point they are a liability you don't keep them in the same place doing the same things.

Flying Falcon likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, vel said:

Then they get benched. You saw last game Oliver is losing snaps, Ish was effectively benched, Campbell is losing snaps. 

Add Cominsky in there. He got around 20 or so snaps. Taking snaps from Beasley from the LDE spot. 

DQ is trying...but it's also his fault to let it get too far with some players like Ish, Campbell, and Beasley. 

I think Campbell doesn't get enough flack around here. He was very raw coming out and showed promise for a while. However, it seems like he's coasted since then. I don't remember the last time he's made an impactful play.

vel, Flying Falcon and JDaveG like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, JDaveG said:

See, this is where I am too.  I'm not saying Quinn bears zero responsibility.  Far from it.  I expect him to be fired.  This team, bad as it is, ought to be playing better than this.

But the truth is, a new coach won't turn soft players into bad ***ses.  He might for a season, maybe 2.  But you can't fix lazy.  You can't fix low effort and low energy.  You can't fix guys who coast.  Quinn's mistake is in not recognizing those players and shipping them out.  And I'm not 100% convinced he's even behind all that, given that our owner goes to the press about getting deals done for people.

The problem, and you've hit it on the head, is it isn't the depth guys who are costing us games.  I can forgive Oliver and McGary's mistakes.  But when Alex Mack, Jake Matthews, Matt Ryan, Desmond Trufant, Vic Beasley, Devondre Campbell and too many others to list are making the same stupid mistakes and costing this team with low effort play?  That ain't on the coach.  Those players are going to get a decent man fired.

If we fire Quinn and TD stays, I'm not going to be happy.  If we fire TD and Quinn stays?  I might be able to live with that for a season or two.  The coach isn't performing well.  But he's also hamstrung.  The culture of this team is sick unto death.

And this is why they say once the Head Coach loses the locker room you have to fire them.

If it's a culture issue then it's on the new coach to fix it.

Flying Falcon likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, FentayeJones said:

From the article:

"Jones, Ricardo Allen and Grady Jarrett, all respected veterans and team leaders, have visited with the media following every game this season. All three were absent in the locker room following the 37-10 loss to the Rams. One source told Klein they believed the three were tired of answering for questions for other teammates who are “not all in.”

I wonder who those players are. A couple are kinda obvious.

Beasley (obviously), Freeman, Campbell, Ishmael, Takk,  just to name some. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is why good coaches churn rosters.  The Patriots are the latest examples, but this really goes back to Bill Walsh.  He always said to get rid of a guy too early instead of too late.  Because the message gets stale, the culture gets stagnant, guys get comfortable.

You have a core of your team.  I'd be willing to bet that Tom Brady is the only player still on the Patriots from that 2001 Super Bowl.  Almost guaranteed.  I only hedge because I haven't looked it up.  He's probably also the only player left from their 2004 team.  And I bet there aren't many left even from the 2011 Super Bowl team.  

We went to the NFCCG in 2012.  Granted, I think Matt and Julio are the only position players still on the team, with Bosher and Bryant rounding out the 4, but we also had a massive coaching change and personnel upheaval in 2015.  If we'd kept winning, we'd still have a lot more of those guys.  Bellichick wouldn't.  He moves players along when they show signs of stagnation.  He drafts replacements for guys who are still on the roster and under contract and even young, and insists the replacements perform.  He requires every man to compete for his job.  

I suppose you could argue we did the same with Takk vs. Beasley, but the truth is we needed another DE, so I don't buy that.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Sun Tzu 7 said:

And this is why they say once the Head Coach loses the locker room you have to fire them.

If it's a culture issue then it's on the new coach to fix it.

Probably correct.  But I don't think just firing the coach will fix it.  It will simply get us a few good years until the next time the culture collapses.

We need to have a front office that maximizes team building.  What we have is one that chases rings instead of building teams.  They always think we're one piece away.  And so we leave the team to stagnate while we go get that one piece, only to find we could have upgraded the roster in a myriad of ways instead.

SPITFIRE likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, JDaveG said:

Probably correct.  But I don't think just firing the coach will fix it.  It will simply get us a few good years until the next time the culture collapses.

We need to have a front office that maximizes team building.  What we have is one that chases rings instead of building teams.  They always think we're one piece away.  And so we leave the team to stagnate while we go get that one piece, only to find we could have upgraded the roster in a myriad of ways instead.

To be clear I'm not saying we keep TD.

He's gotten good players but the prioritizing of offense over the dline has soured me on them.

Letting Poe and Irving walk out the door and go to the Panthers is a little high on my list.

Eric Reid was out there but they wanted to stick with what's his name.... then the Panthers signed Reid.  They liked what they saw so much they kept him around and he's making significant contributions to that defense this season.

Now Quinn has final say on the roster so maybe these were all his decisions.

The job of the GM is to find you guys that can play.  Developing and getting the most out of them... isn't that on the coaching staff?

Just look at what Terry Robiske did for Roddy White

Quote

 

White reflected on his time in Atlanta and mentioned everyone who helped him along the way. One of the coaches who made him the player that he turned out to be was current Titans offensive coordinator Terry Robiskie. Before the move to Nashville, Robiskie spent eight years as the Falcons wide receivers coach.

White on what Robiskie meant to him. "Oh man, he was like a father figure to me. I mean when I got in the room with that guy, he took my game to the next level on and off the field"

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It’s amazing what a few bad eggs can do to a team. I really feel like getting rid of guys like Beasley and Trufant will be addition by subtraction. We need guys more competitive players who are not afraid to call out others for lack of effort. Julio, Grady, and Ryan are those guys. I honestly think getting rid of Poole was not the best move. He did get picked on from time to time but he was a football player.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Sun Tzu 7 said:

To be clear I'm not saying we keep TD.

He's gotten good players but the prioritizing of offense over the dline has soured me on them.

Letting Poe and Irving walk out the door and go to the Panthers is a little high on my list.

Eric Reid was out there but they wanted to stick with what's his name.... then the Panthers signed Reid.  They liked what they saw so much they kept him around and he's making significant contributions to that defense this season.

Now Quinn has final say on the roster so maybe these were all his decisions.

The job of the GM is to find you guys that can play.  Developing and getting the most out of them... isn't that on the coaching staff?

Just look at what Terry Robiske did for Roddy White

 

Conversely, I'm not saying we keep Quinn.  Not by a long shot.

My point, though, is that decisions seem to come from on high that disrupt the process of building the team and preparing them to play.  Mike Smith wrote about it at length in his book.  He blames himself, but it is clear as day that when we get close, Mr. Blank steps in and imposes his will.  Go get this.  Go get that. Expectations are high.  I want my ring.

I mean, look at 2012, 2013 and 2014.  Look what moves they made.  Look what they did to "improve" the team.  Look at the talk about getting us back so we can finally win one.

Then look at 2016, 2017, 2018 and 2019.  Tell me there aren't parallels.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Jpg428gggg said:

It’s amazing what a few bad eggs can do to a team. I really feel like getting rid of guys like Beasley and Trufant will be addition by subtraction. We need guys more competitive players who are not afraid to call out others for lack of effort. Julio, Grady, and Ryan are those guys. I honestly think getting rid of Poole was not the best move. He did get picked on from time to time but he was a football player.

Same with Alford.

Hurry_Up_And_Buy likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
24 minutes ago, Sun Tzu 7 said:

That's my point.

In any job if you have someone that isn't performing to the point they are a liability you don't keep them in the same place doing the same things.

Like I said in the post you originally replied to and bolded, I blame him for the depth chart. Him not benching who needs to be benched is something I can't explain

Flying Falcon, JDaveG and Sun Tzu 7 like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now