The Don™

Julio after Rams Game

110 posts in this topic

Yes it's definitely a coaching problem and a lack of identity that Q has failed to install. However, it seems like there are players in the locker room that are not fully invested like they should be. Grady said something very similar a few weeks ago too. 

It's a collective issue and not just one thing. Quinn seems like a great guy and he knows what he wants coming out of the draft. However, I think there are too many athletes and "talents" in that locker room and not enough football players that have the want and desire. Beasley is an example I can think of. Look at the Patriots. They don't need a bunch of big names and track stars to make their team go year after year.

Julio displayed a sign of veteran leadership which is underrated by some on this board. We need more of that but I think this team with the exception of a few players, is too far gone. 

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1 minute ago, The Don™ said:

Yes it's definitely a coaching problem and a lack of identity that Q has failed to install. However, it seems like there are players in the locker room that are not fully invested like they should be. Grady said something very similar a few weeks ago too. 

It's a collective issue and not just one thing. Quinn seems like a great guy and he knows what he wants coming out of the draft. However, I think there are too many athletes and "talents" in that locker room and not enough football players that have the want and desire. Beasley is an example I can think of. Look at the Patriots. They don't need a bunch of big names and track stars to make their team go year after year.

Julio displayed a sign of veteran leadership which is underrated by some on this board. We need more of that but I think this team with the exception of a few players, is too far gone. 

Good points, definitely think Quinn's time here is done and he has failed but what you mentioned in regards to football players and not athletes is on point. Also very true that probably many players are not giving max effort anymore except a few like Matt, Julio, Hooper, Jarrett, Allen and others. 

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If we have athletes and not football players... that's on DQ as well as TD

If we have players not giving max effort then that is on DQ as well as TD

Since DQ came here I've heard that he is getting the players HE wants..

So if the problem is a lack of actual football player talent and other players that are lazy and not willing to work.. well that is on DQ for making bad personnel decisions (like rolling with VB)... 

So it IS on DQ and this entire regime for assembling this underachieving roster.

I mean ultimately it is always players who don't perform because they are the ones on the field, but DQ has had a huge hand in assembling those players and hasn't lacked for payroll or front office support.

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From the article:

"Jones, Ricardo Allen and Grady Jarrett, all respected veterans and team leaders, have visited with the media following every game this season. All three were absent in the locker room following the 37-10 loss to the Rams. One source told Klein they believed the three were tired of answering for questions for other teammates who are “not all in.”

I wonder who those players are. A couple are kinda obvious.

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Quinn said early on that all of the great teams he has been apart in his career were champions not because of coaches, but because of veteran players calling out other players and demanding accountability..that has been sorely missing the past few years and this year seems nonexistent. 

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This again points to an issue with scouting. Quinn asks for players based off of the information TD gives him. He's still foolish for having the arrogance to think he can turn certain players around. But I refuse to believe Quinn went out of his way to draft bad football players just because they're athletes.

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2 hours ago, The Don™ said:

Yes it's definitely a coaching problem and a lack of identity that Q has failed to install. However, it seems like there are players in the locker room that are not fully invested like they should be. Grady said something very similar a few weeks ago too. 

It's a collective issue and not just one thing. Quinn seems like a great guy and he knows what he wants coming out of the draft. However, I think there are too many athletes and "talents" in that locker room and not enough football players that have the want and desire. Beasley is an example I can think of. Look at the Patriots. They don't need a bunch of big names and track stars to make their team go year after year.

Julio displayed a sign of veteran leadership which is underrated by some on this board. We need more of that but I think this team with the exception of a few players, is too far gone. 

I believe Quinn fell victim to his own kindness and good heart. He is beloved by players throughout the NFL. I suspect his failure is in not demanding his players do more for him. He goes to bat for Vic who thanks him by missing OTA’s.  Gets Julio the richest WR contract ever who misses OTA’s.

Because I have no doubt Quinn goes  above and beyond for his players.

As Coach Herb Brooks claimed: “I am your coach, not your friend.  If you need one of those, see the assistant coach or Doc.”

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9 minutes ago, Francis York Morgan said:

This again points to an issue with scouting. Quinn asks for players based off of the information TD gives him. He's still foolish for having the arrogance to think he can turn certain players around. But I refuse to believe Quinn went out of his way to draft bad football players just because they're athletes.

Huh? Motivation is a coaching issue. Whether Julio wants to admit it or not. 

And Quinn doesn't just ask for players purely based off of TD's recco.... that's just asinine. A lot of people here believe TD doesn't even make the picks anymore and that it was entirely Quinn. 

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Its a shame because there IS so much talent on this team. But its underachieving talent. You would think that the executives for the Falcons would have learned from other teams that have faced the same thing. The Falcons bought into their own hype and thought they were a few moves from a SB when they were actually locking themselves into mediocrity for 4 to 5 years. All too often players get that big contract and the "Will to overachieve" disappears. I knew the year that we went to the SB that we had a 3 to 5 year window to get back in. I'm sad to say that we ended up on the lower end of that spectrum.

This season is over. The team and the front office knows it. They just don't want to say it out loud. Trading Sanu sends the signal that its rebuild time. Time to offload, get some picks for what you have today. Picks for this coming season and even some picks for 2021. A full rebuild could get the Falcons to a 8 - 8 (or slightly better) year within two seasons and some really good picks could get the Falcons back into the mix in 3 to 4 years.

I would also get away from the idea that we need smaller faster guys in the trenches. Nope... we gotta beef up on both sides but also get some guys that you could substitute in when you want to run a play where faster guys get you there.

 

Edited by FalconFan1st
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12 minutes ago, Falcanuck said:

Huh? Motivation is a coaching issue. Whether Julio wants to admit it or not. 

And Quinn doesn't just ask for players purely based off of TD's recco.... that's just asinine. A lot of people here believe TD doesn't even make the picks anymore and that it was entirely Quinn. 

Motivation is a player issue. These are grown men. Professional athletes here to do a job. I think execution of certain concepts is more on coaching, as is the lame duck 8 guys in coverage shtick, and Quinn's poor in-game decisions. But motivation is only a coaching issue in that it's about culture, and the culture here fosters complacency and has been here a long, long time. 

Also, scouting is a more complex process than that, but generally speaking, the way it works is scouts feed information to TD, TD/other big players (formerly Pioli) compile information and present it to DQ, and then - assuming Quinn really does make all the draft picks - Quinn decides. He doesn't have the time to examine draft picks in the depth that the scouting department does. It's literally impossible.

If we were bringing in free agents who were playing unmotivated football, I'd lay the blame on DQ more since he has more to go off from personal experience. And as I already said, he's responsible for retaining players who lack that fire, thinking he can bring it back out of them even though they fold when the going is tough. But the players we're drafting falls on TD. Quinn can get a decent picture of them overall, try to feature what they're good at, envision them in the defense. But all that background stuff, the CT score, is something compiled by TD that DQ is presented with. If it's important enough to be scored, DQ values it highly. But if what he's presented with is wrong, he has to work with what he gets.

Quinn's gonna get fired, and that's the right decision. But he CAN and HAS won with good football players, and he'll do it again. We don't have enough good football players. We have a lot of guys with "talent." That does fall on TD. 

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Maybe we as fans are just WRONG.  I know we all want to point to Quinn, but just maybe since we aren't in the locker room and not at practice, we don't know what is truly going on.  I'm just saying, the people speaking out are the ones that are paid but also our best players.  I just wish Matt would say, I'M TIRED OF GETTING KNOCKED ON MY BUTT.  Big props to Julio for speaking up emotionally

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1 minute ago, Geneaut said:

You can't trade JJ due to the salary cap hit.

Well how did we get hamstrung with that kind f debacle? LOL

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1 minute ago, savannahfalcon912 said:

Well how did we get hamstrung with that kind f debacle? LOL

It's how the cap works.

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30 minutes ago, Francis York Morgan said:

This again points to an issue with scouting. Quinn asks for players based off of the information TD gives him. He's still foolish for having the arrogance to think he can turn certain players around. But I refuse to believe Quinn went out of his way to draft bad football players just because they're athletes.

The problem is no matter which way you slice it it all points back to Quinn.  It's either coaching or personnel and Quinn has final say over personnel so it still goes back to him.

It would be one thing if all these guys were terrible from day one.  They were not.  They showed great promise and this year they fell off a cliff.

Again it's more on coaching but even if it was personnel Quinn has final say so it goes back to him.

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7 minutes ago, KCFalcon22 said:

Maybe we as fans are just WRONG.  I know we all want to point to Quinn, but just maybe since we aren't in the locker room and not at practice, we don't know what is truly going on.  I'm just saying, the people speaking out are the ones that are paid but also our best players.  I just wish Matt would say, I'M TIRED OF GETTING KNOCKED ON MY BUTT.  Big props to Julio for speaking up emotionally

If DQ benched some of those guys the players say "aren't all in", I might agree with you. But he has NOT made any such move.

It's on the players. It's on the coach. It's on the GM cause we ain't as talented as we think. And it's on the owner for making comments like "XXX will retire as a Falcon".

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4 minutes ago, Sun Tzu 7 said:

The problem is no matter which way you slice it it all points back to Quinn.  It's either coaching or personnel and Quinn has final say over personnel so it still goes back to him.

It would be one thing if all these guys were terrible from day one.  They were not.  They showed great promise and this year they fell off a cliff.

Again it's more on coaching but even if it was personnel Quinn has final say so it goes back to him.

I mean, I agree that Quinn is getting fired, and after this season, that's the right move. You don't recover from a season like this. But if we keep TD, I don't see anything changing with this team long term. Just being honest here. We literally haven't had a tough team since he got here. The closest we got was with his early days and Mike Turner.

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Jones, according to one source, became emotional and said “Everything matters, every play matters… this is bigger than just one person. Q can’t do more for us.”

In the words of @Knight of God, I felt that

 

Falcons owner Arthur Blank was in the locker room when Jones spoke up and supported his embattled head coach.

Jones, Ricardo Allen and Grady Jarrett, all respected veterans and team leaders, have visited with the media following every game this season. All three were absent in the locker room following the 37-10 loss to the Rams. One source told Klein they believed the three were tired of answering for questions for other teammates who are “not all in.”

I wouldn't want to either

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5 minutes ago, Ergo Proxy said:

Beasley was also not in the locker room;  per source:

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Ray Lewis “Vic ain’t got that dog in him”

here you see Vic back on the porch, he didn’t wanna run with the big dogs

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